Help/Input on improving VEAT


Eislor

 

Posted

Have a level 50 Widow that I would like to get some input on for improving his build. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks! Here is the build in Mid's. Never posted anything here before so I hope it works out..ha.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Shytan1: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Flight

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- S'dpty-Def(A), DefBuff-I(40), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40)
Level 2: Strike -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(5), LkGmblr-Def(5), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(7), EndRdx-I(7), DefBuff-I(37)
Level 8: Maneuvers -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(9), LkGmblr-Rchg+(9), DefBuff-I(17)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(11), ResDam-I(11), TtmC'tng-EndRdx(17)
Level 12: Lunge -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(13), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 14: Air Superiority -- Acc-I(A)
Level 16: Fly -- Flight-I(A)
Level 18: Spin -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-Dmg(19), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(21), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21)
Level 20: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(23)
Level 22: Foresight -- ResDam-I(A), DefBuff-I(23), DefBuff-I(25), Aegis-ResDam(25)
Level 24: Slash -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(27), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(27), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 26: Eviscerate -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(31), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(31), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 28: Mask Presence -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(34), DefBuff-I(36), DefBuff-I(36)
Level 30: Mental Training -- Flight-I(A)
Level 32: Mind Link -- ToHit-I(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(33), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(33), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Krma-Def/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(36)
Level 38: Tactical Training: Leadership -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(39), EndRdx-I(39), EndRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A), ToHit-I(42), EndRdx-I(42), EndRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Combat Training: Offensive -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(45), Acc-I(45)
Level 47: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(48), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Elude -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(46)
Level 2: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(46), EndMod-I(46)
------------


 

Posted

You have... a lot of accuracy. Will work on this after khan.

edit: check your PMs


 

Posted

I played some games with the build, take a look.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Shytan1: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(7)
Level 2: Strike -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19), LkGmblr-Rchg+(21)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(21)
Level 8: Build Up -- AdjTgt-Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(23), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Lunge -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(25), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 14: Air Superiority -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 16: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(31), Zephyr-ResKB(33)
Level 18: Spin -- C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(33), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(34), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 20: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Foresight -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Run+(36)
Level 24: Slash -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(36), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 26: Eviscerate -- C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(37), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(39), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 28: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(40), GftotA-Def(42)
Level 30: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 32: Mind Link -- GftotA-Def/Rchg(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(42), LkGmblr-Def(42), AdjTgt-Rchg(43)
Level 35: Poison Dart -- Ruin-Acc/Dmg(A), Ruin-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Ruin-Dmg/Rchg(43), Ruin-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Ruin-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 38: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(45), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Build%(48)
Level 41: Char -- UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(A), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(48)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- HO:Nucle(A)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(50), Posi-Dmg/Rng(50), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Tactical Training: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-Heal(11), Mrcl-Rcvry+(13), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(13), Numna-Heal(15), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(17), EndMod-I(17)
------------


"I used to make diddly squat, but I've been with the company for 16 years and have had plenty of great raises. Now I just make squat" -- Me

Pediatric brain tumors are the #1 cause of cancer related deaths in children.

 

Posted

VEATs can't take APPs last I checked, it is a quibble in Mids that has yet to be fixed.


 

Posted

They can take Patron power pools, so why couldn't they take APPs if they go over to hero?


Characters!:
Pinny - Scrapper
Shadewing - Defender
@Pinny

 

Posted

I am repeating what I have been told. I would have to respec my Hero VEAT to confirm for myself.

Wiki also does not list availability of APPs for VEATs, where it does list both PPPs and APPs for all of the other ATs (aside from pb/ws).

EDIT: This took me 30 seconds to find. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=242649 Old post, but it hasn't changed since then.


 

Posted

Lame. Oh well. Guess it would be too powerful to allow them to have their inherent, stamina, and body mastery all at once.


Characters!:
Pinny - Scrapper
Shadewing - Defender
@Pinny

 

Posted

They can't get APP's just like hero epics can't get the PPP's.


Sucks, too, because I'd love me some pyre mastery ._.


Magisterum- 50+3 Fortunata--Virtue

Lukerion- 33 Emp/Rad Defender--Virtue
Noah Heartily- 34 SS/SD brute- Virtue
Mika Heartily- 50+1 Fire/MM blaster-Virtue

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rintera View Post
They can't get APP's just like hero epics can't get the PPP's.


Sucks, too, because I'd love me some pyre mastery ._.
HEATs can't get APPs OR PPPs.

edit:

also, fences and ball lightning are awesome and better, imo, than picking up fireball. It's what i gave him in the build I PMed him.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoumuKonpaku View Post
VEATs can't take APPs last I checked, it is a quibble in Mids that has yet to be fixed.
You're right, in my defense I was more than half asleep at the time
Sorry
A corrected build.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Shytan1: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(7)
Level 2: Strike -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19), LkGmblr-Rchg+(21)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(21)
Level 8: Build Up -- AdjTgt-Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(23), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Lunge -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(25), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 14: Air Superiority -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 16: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(31), Zephyr-ResKB(33)
Level 18: Spin -- C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(33), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(34), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 20: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Foresight -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Run+(36)
Level 24: Slash -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(36), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 26: Eviscerate -- C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(37), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(39), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 28: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(40), GftotA-Def(42)
Level 30: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 32: Mind Link -- GftotA-Def/Rchg(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(42), LkGmblr-Def(42), AdjTgt-Rchg(43)
Level 35: Poison Dart -- Ruin-Acc/Dmg(A), Ruin-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Ruin-Dmg/Rchg(43), Ruin-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Ruin-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 38: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(45), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Build%(48)
Level 41: Electrifying Fences -- GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(A), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(48)
Level 44: Mu Lightning -- HO:Nucle(A)
Level 47: Ball Lightning -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(50), Posi-Dmg/Rng(50), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Tactical Training: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-Heal(11), Mrcl-Rcvry+(13), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(13), Numna-Heal(15), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(17), EndMod-I(17)
------------


"I used to make diddly squat, but I've been with the company for 16 years and have had plenty of great raises. Now I just make squat" -- Me

Pediatric brain tumors are the #1 cause of cancer related deaths in children.

 

Posted

This is the build I PMed him on the night of the 8th, in case someone else would be able to make use of it:

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

nwidow: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Poison Dart -- Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(11), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Decim-Acc/Dmg(36)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Strike -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(19), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Mako-Dam%(37)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(5), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(9), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(11)
Level 6: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(7), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(7), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(9)
Level 8: Follow Up -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(40), Mako-Dam%(43)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), EndRdx-I(31), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 12: Lunge -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(13), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mako-Dam%(43)
Level 14: Spin -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(23), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(23), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), EndRdx-I(36)
Level 16: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Slash -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(34), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Mako-Dam%(46)
Level 20: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(31), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(31)
Level 22: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Foresight -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(34)
Level 26: Mind Link -- LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(27), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(27), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(29), HO:Cyto(29)
Level 28: Stimulant -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Tactical Training: Leadership -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(40), HO:Cyto(40)
Level 32: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(33)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(39), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Numna-Heal/Rchg(48), IntRdx-I(50)
Level 41: Electrifying Fences -- Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg(42), Posi-Dam%(43), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dam%(46), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Super Speed -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(3), EndMod-I(3)
------------



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I gave him a rather in depth explanation to my choices, but I think the most important thing to cover is Eviscerate.

Eviscerate is a trap on Night Widows. Fine on Claws because, hey, they don't have lunge!

Let's be generous and assume Eviscerate hits all five targets. With 3 Damage IOs in it, it will deal 266 on average to each one, or roughly 1300 damage. Not bad, but you have to get those five lined up.

What if you take both Fences and Ball Lightning? THe first hits 10, the second hits 16. They're TAOE and thus easier to nail the cap with. Since we're being generous with Eviscerate, we'll do the same here.

Fences at 3 damage IOs will deal 88 damage on average to each, so ~880 total. It animates in 1.32s, a tiny bit over half Eviscerate's. Well, that doesn't stack up.

When you add in Ball after it, with 3 damage IOs, it will deal 112 damage to each on average. That's 1792 damage, which is a nice chunk more than Eviscerate. It also animates in 1.32s.

So, the conclusion: Using Ball alone vs target cap is more damage than Eviscerate, since we're being generous with both. Using both Fences and Ball will result in TWICE the damage on average for about 0.10s more cast time. That's without consider that the majority of Eviscerate's damage is heavily resisted Lethal.

I didn't feel spin needed to be taken into account, but Spin w/ 3 damage IOs vs target cap is ~1900 damage for 2.64 seconds.

This is, of course, assuming perfect conditions where you can nail every target and they don't resist any of the damage. Real world play will most likely find it easier to use fences/ball lightning than to hit 5 targets with eviscerate.

When using Eviscerate single target (again, all with 3 damage IOs), keep in mind you're using 2.508 seconds of animating to do:

73 damage LESS than Slash, which animates in 1.584 seconds.

20 damage more than Lunge, which animates in 1.056 seconds. An extra 1.5 seconds for 20 damage? In that time, I could use...

Strike, which does 76 less damage than Eviscerate. But, it animates in 1.32s. That's a bit over half of the time Eviscerate takes to animate.

Lunge+Strike would animate in 2.376 seconds, slightly faster than Eviscerate, and do 436 damage, or 170 damage more. They'll use a bit more END together, but with end reduc brought up it is negligible. Perhaps a difference of 2 end in the favor of Eviscerate.

Eviscerate would likely shine on x2 solo where you have time to get 5 targets lined up and hit them all. Otherwise? It falls flat, it's a trap.


 

Posted

Thanks everyone for the input.

I went with Youmu's build mainly because some of the changes in the build I had already thought of making.

Thanks Eislor for your build as well.

So I finally got it slotted out enough to test the build out last night. This will be more of a critique of the build instead of a numbers comparison.

Things to Note:
1. Only 1 slotted Cyto and I put it in MindLink
2. No LOTG Global Recharges
3. Some IO Levels are not at the Max as listed in the Mid's build but all of the sets are there and their bonuses.

Testing:
RWZ missions solo at (+1x1)...0 deaths
RWZ missions with 1 bane teammate (+4x4)...1 death
ITF (+1x1)...2 deaths

RWZ-death was against (4) Lvl54 Nemesis bosses with bubbles. No purple candy to start but think i did pop couple to finish them off. May have been unecessary but i did use them. Bubbles are just awesome defense.

ITF-random deaths from mobs overwhelming me. Ambush at end of first mission and then again on third mission i believe...overwhemed again.

EB-even level EB bit the dust with no purples used. He did damage to me but with Aid-Self and maybe a small green...no biggie.

CONCLUSION- deaths were due to inexperience with the build..IMO.

COMPARISONS

OLD BUILD-
This is still a solid build to me. Mindlink and two sets of Leadership. High damage, high accuracy, high recharge, and high defense. Very endurance heavy though which I mitigated with the Cardiac Incarnate.

I was able to handle +1 mobs of 5-6 without much of a problem. Depending on size and damage type +4 mobs went down just as easy.

No ranged attacks except for a vet staff. Team and solo friendly build.

Typical attack chain was Build Up-->Slash/Spin-->Eviscerate and so on. Slash or Spin depending on group or ST

NEW BUILD-
An excellent build! High damage, accuracy, defense, and recharge. Do I even need to go on???

I found this build very interesting in battle. I started with this attack chain since it was similar to what I had: FollowUp-->Slash/Spin-->Lunge...

What I found was that I could substitute Slash/Spin for Ball Lightning/Elec Fences for bigger groups. Even more impressive was that I could get in both Ball and Fences as well as Spin or Slash while FollowUp was still buffing. If I lost the buff for some reason it was already recharged by the time I finished with my second attack after FollowUp.

There's your damage output there! Four attacks, 3 AOE's at that, with a 30% damage boost within seconds. And the recharge was incredible on them, even without the LOTG's slotted!

No notable differences in Defense or Accuracy either. I know the Acc is lower but I'll get to that later and the defense is capped I believe.

GOOD POINTS

1. Lower Endurance Use- self explanatory really. With Cardiac slotted I don't think I even got to half a bar of endurance.

2. Versatile Attack Chain- have the option to alter your chain as needed for mobs or ST. Even the ranged attacks are fast animations and recharges.

3. Team friendly- bring both Mindlink and Leadership pool to a team. Effectively increase their damage, defense and to-hit. You also bring high ranged and melee damage output.

4. Solo friendly- I find that the main difference in team vs solo is my endurance use. Will use more solo obviously because I am doing all of the attacking. This build is effecient on endurance as well as giving you the damage to take down EB's. (haven't tested any AV's solo yet).

5. Cost-see explanation below

BAD POINTS

1. Cost- I put this one in both because it is both. It isn't the most expensive and it isn't the cheapest. It has a market value of about 1 billion. However, and this is huge, most or all of the enhancements outside of the Cyto's can be bought with merits. And if you're lucky you can get the Cyto's from STF/LRSF. Overall if you're thrifty you could probably pull this off for 500 mil or less.

2. No Fly- I don't think I would have put this one here except that I ran ITF as a Master Of last night. Although it isn't the most necessary componant for that TF it is for LGTF and Hami Raids. Will have to keep a jet pack on hand all the time. This isn't a huge issue for me personally but I will have to get used to Super Speed.

3. Ranged AOE- I only put this here because I want it to be noted. The only ST ranged is Poison Dart. The more powerful ones are AOE. Just something to remember when fighting Hami or you volunteer to pull something.

MY ULTIMATE GOAL

I love my Widow...Hell I love VEATS..lol

My original goal for the new build was one that gave me more damage output while holding my defense and accuracy as high as possible without sacrificing recharge speeds. Of course if I could improve on these I would.The new build accomplishes this and from what I can tell has improved on the recharge as well.It increases my damage output and my recharge times while maintaining my defense. It actually adds small resist bonuses too.

I didn't put this in the BAD column because it's not an issue...I did lose some Accuracy but I believe I was in overkill on that anyway. Think I went from like 1.73x to 1.55x or something close to that. I personally think anything over 1.50 is fine for a Widow. That isn't even considering To-Hit buffs. I was willing to sacrifice some Acc for Damage because of the high level I was already at.

I think all of the builds you see listed on this post, 3 including my original, are all very playable. Although I haven't played Eislor's it is similar to my original. Swap out my extra Leadership for Mu Mastery and a few enhancement sets and they are pretty close. When you consider play style and preferences you could tweak any of these to suit yours. I personally wanted more versatility than I was able to get with my original build so that's why I wanted to change it in the first place.

Not sure with other SOA's but the Widows can actually have several completely different builds. Youmu's tends to lean in the Scrapper direction. I have another one that is more of a Dom/Stalker type. I like it but prefer a more melee build. That being said though, it can be a challenge to build these characters out because of the choices in powers. (For me anyway..lol)

Thanks everyone for the input and I'll be posting again as I get him completed with the rest of my enhancements. So far I am pleased and actually excited to see what I can do with him.


 

Posted

I wanted to pop in and say thanks to everyone who posted in this here thread. I recently took a Widow up to 50 and this thread was hugely helpful in figuring out my build. Below is what I ended up with, mainly for high level content so I wasn't bothered taking care over levels - it's a 50 respec build.

The build might look stupidly pricy but I simply saved my merits along the way and pretty much all the Numina/LoTG etc came from trading them in so my actual inf spend was much less. There is one purple set because I was lucky with drops. I had a second posi set slotted until then. I do plan on getting another purp in at some point but next up will be looking at a Fort for build 2.

Incarnate is currently a Cardiac Total Core Revamp but, and I need to play a bit more to be sure, I am giving serious thought to switching this as I really don't have end issues and I like the idea of pushing further recharge or even adding damage.

I am quite happy with this. I've joked that the only thing I need to make it perfect is someone to die on command for TT: Veng to kick in. I suspect you'll find it mostly fits in with things already in this thread but any comments would be most welcome.


Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Mistress Shader: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Medicine
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Strike -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(7), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Mako-Dam%(11)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(11), LkGmblr-Def(13), RedFtn-EndRdx(13)
Level 6: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(15), LkGmblr-Def(15), RedFtn-EndRdx(17)
Level 8: Dart Burst -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(19), Posi-Dmg/Rng(19), Posi-Dam%(21)
Level 10: Follow Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(21), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(23), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(23), GSFC-Build%(25), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(25)
Level 12: Indomitable Will -- TtmC'tng-EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam(27), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(27)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 16: Super Speed -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 18: Spin -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(31), Oblit-%Dam(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 20: Tactical Training: Leadership -- AdjTgt-Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(33), AdjTgt-ToHit(34), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(34), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(34), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(36)
Level 22: Foresight -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 24: Mind Link -- LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(36), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(36), AdjTgt-Rchg(37), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(37)
Level 26: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 28: Slash -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(37), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 30: Lunge -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dam%(40), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(40), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(42)
Level 32: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Tactical Training: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 41: Electrifying Fences -- GravAnch-Immob(A), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(43), GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(43), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(43), GravAnch-Hold%(45)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/Rng(45), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(46), Posi-Acc/Dmg(46)
Level 47: Aid Other -- Heal-I(A)
Level 49: Aid Self -- Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal(50), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(50), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(46), Mrcl-Rcvry+(48)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(48), EndMod-I(48)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 4: Ninja Run
------------


| dave | onion | @davejb |