Isilmo

Since I saw that YoumuKonpaku responded...I had to...lol. I'm the one he put the build together for.

If you follow his link it takes you to just the build. If you want my 'critique' of it...follow this link to the entire thread:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=252246

The critique is more in depth and the only thing different now is that I have a couple LOTG Global Recharges and maybe one more Cyto than when I did the test runs and critique. I can tell a big difference since I've added those enhancements but I think those are obvious and don't need to be explained in great detail.

To sum it all up though...its a build that will fit your budget and give you the performance that you want out of a Widow. I do have it IO'd out but no purple sets, which would be nice to have but I can't see the benefit vs cost on those. It's slotted just as you see in the Mid's build with any differences noted in my critiique.

Good Luck!

I have a build with two sets of Leadership and my only complaint was the Endurance use. If not for Cardiac Alpha I'd be one tired widow. I agree with most of what's been said about the To-Hit buffs and Acc though.

All things aside if the build works for you and does what you want it to...stick with it. I personally got into another build that runs 4 TT:Leadership and only 2 Pool Leadership (Assault, Maneuvers). My Acc is still great as well as To-Hit buff. I felt like the double sets were a bit overkill in those areas and I also did not want to be tied to just the Cardiac Alpha. I still use a good bit of End but not as much as being double stacked.

Just a thought...

So many opinions on Night Widows...

Rather than go on here's a link to 2 of my builds that I posted on the forums. There is actually 3 builds there...two suggested by others and what I call my original build, along with my post about the results of my new build.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=252246

Basic Summary:

Original Build-

For Defense my original build included:
2 sets of leadership without vengeance,
MindLink, Elude, Foresight, and CT Offensive (not really defense),
Combat Jumping, Indomitable Will, and CT Defense

Attack powers: Swipe,Strike,Lunge,Slash,Eviscerate,Spin, and BuildUp.
No Patron Powers.
I dont count Air Superiority as Attack...I use it for knockdown.

Cardiac Alpha

-The build is very playable and is all melee with no ranged except for vet staff. Endurance heavy but the Cardiac mitigates that. I wanted a straight up melee, jump in the middle of it build. This one is almost what I wanted. I go into more detail on the forum post.

New Build-

For Defense my new build has:
4 TT Leadership powers,
3 pool Leadership powers,Foresight, MindLink,
Indomitable Will, and CT Defense

Attack powers:Poison Dart,Strike,FollowUp,
Lunge,Spin,Slash,Electrifying Fences, and Ball Lightning.

Cardiac Alpha

-My new build is quite different so I'll just kinda sum up the main points. Again more detail is on the post.

The first major difference is the loss of Eviscerate. I am not missing it.

The second major difference...no Elude...and so far it is not missed.

The third major difference...Aid Self...worth getting...I have it 5 slotted with a interrupt recharge but it lands almost everytime I use it surrounded by 5-6 critters.

The final major difference...FollowUp instead of BuildUp. This depends on whether you want a huge hit on ST or if you want to have a steady 30% bonus to your damage all the time. BuildUp has an 80% bonus for 10sec(I think). What I found with FollowUp is that with this build I can actually have it triple stacked!! Not for very long but long enough to get one or two hits in. That's 10% more than BuildUp and even if your double stacked its still 60% bonus. (Those numbers may differ in reality but I'm not dealing with that here anyway)

I have played my Widow with several different builds but this new build and my original have been the most fun. I did have him, actually still have a build that is a dom/stalker type build. I liked the build a lot but wanted a more aggresive build. I just like the idea of confusing a mob and then jumping in and demolishing them..lol. It also comes in handy if there are enemy healers/buffers because they will instead heal/buff you and allies. Just a thought...

1. To answer your MindLink question...yes they do affect the recharge on it. Not sure of the numbers on it since you last played but i have been able to get it down to 2m with set bonuses and without a LOTG Global Recharge anywhere in the build.

It is possible to get it down to perma with the right set bonuses and the Global Recharges.

2. The scatter has not been a huge issue for me personally but it usually isnt the entire mob. May be the last one or two that run. Also from what I've seen, the debuffs that come from the Widows attacks really slow down a retreating enemy to a crawl...even on some EB's.

That being said if they run you should be able to put them down fairly quick. Again it depends on the enemy but most that I've faced either don't get the chance to run or if they do it's just one or two and usually very slowly.

3. As far as DE is concerned...I avoid most of them..lol. Most of the time small groups are not so bad but they have always hurt. One of my builds has positional defenses at around 50% and they still did brutal damage in a large mob. In my opinion though no AT can take on all types of damage and there will always be weak points in a build. Outside of tanks/brutes that is and even then some have vulnerable spots.

Concerning Incarnate content...I havent played the new beta trials but the Apex and Tin Mage along with the Remial arc were no problems with my Widow. Not that I didnt die on the Apex and Tin Mage but that can be a result of gameplay, not just build.

I am currently +1 with Cardiac slotted for my alpha and I love it. Working on a new build right now but I have been able to hold my own against large TF mobs of 54 that included bosses,LT's, and minions. Again some enemies will always be a problem but if you can make sure positional defenses are high enough then you will be fine.

On a typical TF I hardly ever use candy. Maybe a green here or there and sometimes a purple if I find my self getting pounded. But again, most of the time it is unneccesary. Solo I will pop a purple depending on mob makeup and size...just as insurance really. Overall though I havent had much difficulty with anything getting through my defenses to cause worry. Not that it may come in later issues but that will be across the board on al l At's and I'm sure there will be a solution.

I honestly think that VEAT's are some of the best AT's in the game. A lot of versatility in both the Widow and the Soldiers. That being said, it can also be tough to put a build together at times because of the choices we have. Finding the right powers to compliment others, etc. I would suggest looking at some of the other builds on the forums and comparing to your own to see the differences...if you think that could be an issue.

And one last thing...damage output and defense are the bread and butter of the Widow build (as I'm sure you know). If you are able to do enough damage to enemies then defense isnt as big a concern. Kill them before they are lucky enough to break through your defenses. Obviously EB's, AV's, and maybe some regular Bosses will at times break you down.(I have soloed EB's without purples). More damage is always a good defense...

Thanks everyone for the input.

I went with Youmu's build mainly because some of the changes in the build I had already thought of making.

Thanks Eislor for your build as well.

So I finally got it slotted out enough to test the build out last night. This will be more of a critique of the build instead of a numbers comparison.

Things to Note:
1. Only 1 slotted Cyto and I put it in MindLink
2. No LOTG Global Recharges
3. Some IO Levels are not at the Max as listed in the Mid's build but all of the sets are there and their bonuses.

Testing:
RWZ missions solo at (+1x1)...0 deaths
RWZ missions with 1 bane teammate (+4x4)...1 death
ITF (+1x1)...2 deaths

RWZ-death was against (4) Lvl54 Nemesis bosses with bubbles. No purple candy to start but think i did pop couple to finish them off. May have been unecessary but i did use them. Bubbles are just awesome defense.

ITF-random deaths from mobs overwhelming me. Ambush at end of first mission and then again on third mission i believe...overwhemed again.

EB-even level EB bit the dust with no purples used. He did damage to me but with Aid-Self and maybe a small green...no biggie.

CONCLUSION- deaths were due to inexperience with the build..IMO.

COMPARISONS

OLD BUILD-
This is still a solid build to me. Mindlink and two sets of Leadership. High damage, high accuracy, high recharge, and high defense. Very endurance heavy though which I mitigated with the Cardiac Incarnate.

I was able to handle +1 mobs of 5-6 without much of a problem. Depending on size and damage type +4 mobs went down just as easy.

No ranged attacks except for a vet staff. Team and solo friendly build.

Typical attack chain was Build Up-->Slash/Spin-->Eviscerate and so on. Slash or Spin depending on group or ST

NEW BUILD-
An excellent build! High damage, accuracy, defense, and recharge. Do I even need to go on???

I found this build very interesting in battle. I started with this attack chain since it was similar to what I had: FollowUp-->Slash/Spin-->Lunge...

What I found was that I could substitute Slash/Spin for Ball Lightning/Elec Fences for bigger groups. Even more impressive was that I could get in both Ball and Fences as well as Spin or Slash while FollowUp was still buffing. If I lost the buff for some reason it was already recharged by the time I finished with my second attack after FollowUp.

There's your damage output there! Four attacks, 3 AOE's at that, with a 30% damage boost within seconds. And the recharge was incredible on them, even without the LOTG's slotted!

No notable differences in Defense or Accuracy either. I know the Acc is lower but I'll get to that later and the defense is capped I believe.

GOOD POINTS

1. Lower Endurance Use- self explanatory really. With Cardiac slotted I don't think I even got to half a bar of endurance.

2. Versatile Attack Chain- have the option to alter your chain as needed for mobs or ST. Even the ranged attacks are fast animations and recharges.

3. Team friendly- bring both Mindlink and Leadership pool to a team. Effectively increase their damage, defense and to-hit. You also bring high ranged and melee damage output.

4. Solo friendly- I find that the main difference in team vs solo is my endurance use. Will use more solo obviously because I am doing all of the attacking. This build is effecient on endurance as well as giving you the damage to take down EB's. (haven't tested any AV's solo yet).

5. Cost-see explanation below

BAD POINTS

1. Cost- I put this one in both because it is both. It isn't the most expensive and it isn't the cheapest. It has a market value of about 1 billion. However, and this is huge, most or all of the enhancements outside of the Cyto's can be bought with merits. And if you're lucky you can get the Cyto's from STF/LRSF. Overall if you're thrifty you could probably pull this off for 500 mil or less.

2. No Fly- I don't think I would have put this one here except that I ran ITF as a Master Of last night. Although it isn't the most necessary componant for that TF it is for LGTF and Hami Raids. Will have to keep a jet pack on hand all the time. This isn't a huge issue for me personally but I will have to get used to Super Speed.

3. Ranged AOE- I only put this here because I want it to be noted. The only ST ranged is Poison Dart. The more powerful ones are AOE. Just something to remember when fighting Hami or you volunteer to pull something.

MY ULTIMATE GOAL

I love my Widow...Hell I love VEATS..lol

My original goal for the new build was one that gave me more damage output while holding my defense and accuracy as high as possible without sacrificing recharge speeds. Of course if I could improve on these I would.The new build accomplishes this and from what I can tell has improved on the recharge as well.It increases my damage output and my recharge times while maintaining my defense. It actually adds small resist bonuses too.

I didn't put this in the BAD column because it's not an issue...I did lose some Accuracy but I believe I was in overkill on that anyway. Think I went from like 1.73x to 1.55x or something close to that. I personally think anything over 1.50 is fine for a Widow. That isn't even considering To-Hit buffs. I was willing to sacrifice some Acc for Damage because of the high level I was already at.

I think all of the builds you see listed on this post, 3 including my original, are all very playable. Although I haven't played Eislor's it is similar to my original. Swap out my extra Leadership for Mu Mastery and a few enhancement sets and they are pretty close. When you consider play style and preferences you could tweak any of these to suit yours. I personally wanted more versatility than I was able to get with my original build so that's why I wanted to change it in the first place.

Not sure with other SOA's but the Widows can actually have several completely different builds. Youmu's tends to lean in the Scrapper direction. I have another one that is more of a Dom/Stalker type. I like it but prefer a more melee build. That being said though, it can be a challenge to build these characters out because of the choices in powers. (For me anyway..lol)

Thanks everyone for the input and I'll be posting again as I get him completed with the rest of my enhancements. So far I am pleased and actually excited to see what I can do with him.

Have a level 50 Widow that I would like to get some input on for improving his build. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks! Here is the build in Mid's. Never posted anything here before so I hope it works out..ha.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Shytan1: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Flight

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- S'dpty-Def(A), DefBuff-I(40), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40)
Level 2: Strike -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(5), LkGmblr-Def(5), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(7), EndRdx-I(7), DefBuff-I(37)
Level 8: Maneuvers -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(9), LkGmblr-Rchg+(9), DefBuff-I(17)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(11), ResDam-I(11), TtmC'tng-EndRdx(17)
Level 12: Lunge -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(13), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 14: Air Superiority -- Acc-I(A)
Level 16: Fly -- Flight-I(A)
Level 18: Spin -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-Dmg(19), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(21), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21)
Level 20: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(23)
Level 22: Foresight -- ResDam-I(A), DefBuff-I(23), DefBuff-I(25), Aegis-ResDam(25)
Level 24: Slash -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(27), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(27), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 26: Eviscerate -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(31), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(31), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 28: Mask Presence -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(34), DefBuff-I(36), DefBuff-I(36)
Level 30: Mental Training -- Flight-I(A)
Level 32: Mind Link -- ToHit-I(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(33), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(33), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Krma-Def/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(36)
Level 38: Tactical Training: Leadership -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(39), EndRdx-I(39), EndRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A), ToHit-I(42), EndRdx-I(42), EndRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Combat Training: Offensive -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(45), Acc-I(45)
Level 47: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(48), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Elude -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(46)
Level 2: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(46), EndMod-I(46)
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