The end redux/range alpha slot works wonders for my Dom. I can finally leave arctic air running while spamming attacks. I can see the damage alpha slot being very good too. %130 damage enhancement per attack? Sounds nice.
I am also curious about the level shift.
Defense Alpha tipped my Widow over the softcap before MindLink, woot...
Also, will level shift be allowed in Zonal where you are auto exemped?
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
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I don't know how the Exemping works in PvP but I would guess if you exemp lower than 45 it won't. I was running Ouro missions at 45 last night and the shift DID apply. Was a nice bonus. |
Originally Posted by Donna_
Defense Alpha tipped my Widow over the softcap before MindLink, woot...
Also, will level shift be allowed in Zonal where you are auto exemped? |
Because of DR, there won't be that significant of a difference for the Alpha slot. Where you would see the biggest improvement would be in areas that aren't already max slotted, such as endurance or recharge. I have seen quite a few people who think that the alpha slot allows them to bypass a portion of DR because of the poor wording in the discriptions. The alpha slot only ignores a portion of the DR that is applied to the enhancements themselves, not to the PvP DR that is applied to the total power. Using the damage or accuracy alpha for instance will most likely only net you a couple of percentage points improvement after PvP DR is applied. Not really noticable in most cases.
Quote:
The level shift has no direct effect on pvp. It may benefit pvp in RV because the level shift works against NPC interference. You lose the shift when you drop below level 45.
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Originally Posted by Donna_
Defense Alpha tipped my Widow over the softcap before MindLink, woot...
Also, will level shift be allowed in Zonal where you are auto exemped? |
@Dawun
Old School
Renegades
Just and FYI, your pets are level shifted if you are. So that does give a boost to pet users since their pets will now do more damage and be slightly tougher to kill.
It also works the other way... Pets that are not level shifted will be taking more damage from level shifted players.
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I question this...|
Originally Posted by Antigonus
Because of DR, there won't be that significant of a difference for the Alpha slot. Where you would see the biggest improvement would be in areas that aren't already max slotted, such as endurance or recharge. I have seen quite a few people who think that the alpha slot allows them to bypass a portion of DR because of the poor wording in the discriptions. The alpha slot only ignores a portion of the DR that is applied to the enhancements themselves, not to the PvP DR that is applied to the total power. Using the damage or accuracy alpha for instance will most likely only net you a couple of percentage points improvement after PvP DR is applied. Not really noticable in most cases.
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My understanding of DR is it affects affects buffs and debuffs as well as set bonuses and global bonuses but not enhancement values themselves. Enhancement values are already afffected by Enhancement Diversification. As the higher tier alphas are affected less and less by ED then the more bonus you will be getting. So if two thirds of the 45% damage alpha ignores ED then you will be getting a 30% bonus no matter what. If you are already close to the ED cap (?) then you'll be looking at 130% damage unaffected by DR.
Again this is based on my understanding on DR only affecting buffs, debuffs and set and global bonuses.
I am sure I will be corrected by someone who knows more than I on the subject if I am incorrect.
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DR effects enhancements to. It hits everything. Arcanaville knows the math pretty well. If this helps http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=249876|
Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
I question this...
My understanding of DR is it affects affects buffs and debuffs as well as set bonuses and global bonuses but not enhancement values themselves. Enhancement values are already afffected by Enhancement Diversification. As the higher tier alphas are affected less and less by ED then the more bonus you will be getting. So if two thirds of the 45% damage alpha ignores ED then you will be getting a 30% bonus no matter what. If you are already close to the ED cap (?) then you'll be looking at 130% damage unaffected by DR. Again this is based on my understanding on DR only affecting buffs, debuffs and set and global bonuses. I am sure I will be corrected by someone who knows more than I on the subject if I am incorrect. |
its like 2 below the positron post.
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Yeah Now that I think about it I see that. As an example a invuln tank can hit 90% res to smashing without any set bonuses and that's DR'd to about 65ish.|
Originally Posted by Lucky666
DR effects enhancements to. It hits everything. Arcanaville knows the math pretty well. If this helps http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=249876
its like 2 below the positron post. |
I guess I was blinded by my hatred of DR and not thinking straight
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So you're saying the level shift doesn't do anything against player enemies? I haven't had a chance to mess around with it myself.
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Originally Posted by _Dawun_
The level shift has no direct effect on pvp. It may benefit pvp in RV because the level shift works against NPC interference. You lose the shift when you drop below level 45.
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Set bonuses are the same as enhancement bonuses. If you get, for example, a 3% damage bonus, it's the same as adding the 3% to your enhancement value.
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Right, it has no effect on player enemies. I tested using two characters with the +1 from a non-damage alpha. I tested damage with and without the tier3 for both characters and it was the same.
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Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
So you're saying the level shift doesn't do anything against player enemies? I haven't had a chance to mess around with it myself.
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@Dawun
Old School
Renegades
Quote:
Actually it's DRed to around 53% S/L on a tank. I would love to have 65% resistence on anything, but the highest resistence i've seen without a t9 is an invul scrap or brute. Tanks are hit really hard by DR, but brutes/scraps aren't as much. I've seen an invul brute with 61% S/L, but that was with shield wall proc, 3 sets of glad strikes and 4 sets of panacea. So about what...100% res on mids? Or around there. I've seen an invul tank hit around 56% with the same bonuses.|
Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
Yeah Now that I think about it I see that. As an example a invuln tank can hit 90% res to smashing without any set bonuses and that's DR'd to about 65ish.
I guess I was blinded by my hatred of DR and not thinking straight |
I think electric tanks hit around 65% but that's 155% on mids. Electric brutes get around 70% if i remember correctly.
Although i should mention an invul brute with demonic/unstop can reach 87% resistence. And taking on 13% of total damage while a huge chunck is being absorbed and running around with 3100 hp is just godly. Until the psi blasters come, then you're just 3100 hp with normal defenses/resistences.
DR is messed up, with brutes and scrappers hitting more resistence than tanks, it's a good thing they raised the tanker hp cap.
Anyway, carry on.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Just tested it on an Inv tank and brute with identical slotting in Tough/Temp Inv/RPD
PvE : Tank 90% Res S/L Brute : 67.9%
PvP : Tank 55% Res S/L Brute : 51%
Tanks may end up losing more from DR, but they do end up with higher res values.
Haha yeah typo I meant to put around 55, but yeah...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Just tested it on an Inv tank and brute with identical slotting in Tough/Temp Inv/RPD
PvE : Tank 90% Res S/L Brute : 67.9% PvP : Tank 55% Res S/L Brute : 51% Tanks may end up losing more from DR, but they do end up with higher res values. |
That...can't be correct.
I've never seen a invul brute with less than 55% resistence. That or the slotting is off. Mids shows PvP wise, 81.3 S/L with 3 slotted RPD/Tough/Temp/Unyielding, meaning it should be at least 71.3 S/L PvE.
PvE tank shows 95%.
Looks like i'll have to go test the numbers myself. I'll find out my invul brutes res with just 3 slotted (with 3 even leveled SOs) RPD/Tough/Temp/Unyielding. And find someone with an invul tank, or wait i have one.
Won't take me too long, brb.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Using three 50+ SOs in each resistence power on invul (56.4% enhanced on each)
Important to note that in a pvp zone, Brutes get an extra 10% res to all, and tough gives resistence to all, not just S/L.
-TANK-
RPD - 15.64% S/L
Temp - 46.94% S/L
Tough - 23.47% S/L
Unyielding - 7.82% S/L 15.64% F/C/E/NE
Resist Energies - 15.64% E/NE
Resist Elemtns - 15.64% F/C
Totals for PvE
90% (93.87%) S/L
31.29% F/C/E/NE
Totals for PvP (In a PvP zone under the effects of stupid DR)
54.45% S/L
39.42% F/C/E/NE
1 Orange in a PvP Zone (to mimic +res bonuses PvP IOs may give)
57.22% S/L
44.23% F/C/E/NE
-BRUTE-
RPD - 11.73% S/L
Temp - 35.20% S/L
Tough - 17.60% S/L
Unyielding - 5.87% S/L 11.73% F/C/E/NE
Resist Energies - 11.73% E/NE
Resist Elements - 11.73% F/C
Totals for PvE
70.40% S/L (Should be noted brutes gain 10% in zone)
23.47% F/C/E/NE
Totals for PvP
56.27% S/L
40.52% F/C/E/NE
1 Orange in a PvP zone
60.79% S/L
46.61% F/C/E/NE
Let's compare the DR curve
No Oranges
Brutes to Tanks = 56.27% - 54.45% = 1.82% Difference
1 Orange
Brutes to Tanks = 60.79% - 56.27% = 4.52% Difference
So that means the DR curve is much harsher on tanks then brutes the higher they get.
Conclusion...
Brutes get more resistence then Tanks in a PvP zone.
DR hits tanks harder on resistence, which lets brutes get a head more and more as their resistence grows (Unstoppable on a Brute > Unstoppable on a Tank)
It isn't just the DR curve though, as brutes get 10% extra from pvp resistence bonus. If a tank got the same bonus (shown as one orange), the tank would have 0.94 (basically 1) more resistence then the brute. But it's the combination of the two that let's the brute jump ahead.
It's also interesting where the DR curve is exactly. It shows that once they both get an extra 10%, the amount inbetween them grows, meaning tanks are getting hit by DR harder and harder compared to Brutes. But if a tank was to have 10% more resistence, they would just slightly be better than brutes. Where the DR curve takes place, is right where Tank+1 Orange almost = Brute+PvP res. Wait, no, that would imply they actually did something in i13 on purpose.
What's surprising is that the brute even gets more F/C/E/NE resistence then the tank, this is something i wasn't sure of. If it's all about DR curves, i would think it would surpass brutes because it's not being hit as hard by DR, which means the 10% brutes get helps a lot.
It really is good that tanks HP cap was raised. Before, an invul brute could each 3150 hp and have more resistence. I still think invul brutes are better because their t9 (their claim to fame) is more powerful with brutes.
This also means that fire armor/ele armor brutes are better at surviving their type of damage then a tank would be. I could get those numbers if anyone is interested, i'd just need to spec my Fire brute and Fire tank so to make their slotting the exact same.
It should also be noted that brutes and scrappers are affected the same way by DR on resistence. So yes, an invul scrap would have more resistence then a tank as well. But an invul brute with unstop hits 82% resistence, where as the cap for scraps is 75%. So brutes still come on top.
I guess i'll sort this away with all my other tests
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Quote:
does soft capping have any meaning in pvp?|
Originally Posted by Donna_
Defense Alpha tipped my Widow over the softcap before MindLink, woot...
Also, will level shift be allowed in Zonal where you are auto exemped? |
just asking because i was away from the game for awhile and to see if things changed to be better for defense-oriented toons.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheGodOfGods
does soft capping have any meaning in pvp?
just asking because i was away from the game for awhile and to see if things changed to be better for defense-oriented toons. |
No i'm pretty sure they were just using soft cap as a benchmark to explain that their defense was boosted. Soft cap isn't much different from 44% or 46% in pvp. As far as i know anyway, most SR toons try to hit around 60%.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Simple question, have these had much impact on PvP builds? Specifically the level adjustment Alpha's