Quote:
I have a set of Apocalypse in my Stalker's Spirit Shark power (a ranged attack) | a. What powers are you applying this to specifically and are you happy with the results? I read it can be applied to ranged so I'm considering applying it to the Dominator Crowd Control powers like Wormhole, Crushing Field or Gravity Distortion Field. This along with all 12 Alpha slots I have should make an "Interesting" character. |
and, yes, I'm quite happy with it.
Quote:
|
b. Negative Damage has a feature that the others don't have called: Proc: This enhancement has a chance of taking effect each time its power is used. The other Apocalypse Enchancements, do the effects work every time? The comment above made me wonder. |
the additional Negative Damage will also occur.
As for the other bonuses, yes, they're just like regular sets in that regard.
Those bonuses (+Regen, for instance) always apply. In fact, they're better,
because unlike normal sets - the bonuses in purple sets apply even when
you exemplar down (to any level). Sets only exemplar down 3 levels.
Quote:
| c. It says that only 1 type of this enhancement can be slotted per character. I can slot one of each of these(A:damage, A: D/R, A: D/R/A, A: R/A, A: D/E, and A: NED) for the same character, right? |
You can only have 1 each (of all of those IO's in your build - ie. a single
full set of them). Unlike normal sets where you could have, say 3 Bruising
Blow A/D IO's (1 in each of 3 different powers), for purples, each IO is
unique.
Quote:
| d. What slots are you giving up to slot these? It seems like to get the most of the special slots you have to give up something. For example, I'll design a power that uses 6 slots. To make sure my powers are balanced, I'll do end cost, end red, accuracy, range, damage, and increased attack. But with these apocalyse or special enchancements for you to get the most the Damage enhancement have to be in place as the base for the increase so basically you have to give up/overwrite a power slot apply it. The new power automatically has a weakeness. If a power has 3 benefits, to slot it you have to have all 3 in place before you slot. |
good numbers-wise... I don't think you give up much. OTOH, you could
always frankenslot the pieces into multiple powers like you might with any
other set (that would keep you from getting the high slot bonuses, but
you'd get the regen bonus multiple times (up to 3X if you slotted them in
pairs in 3 three different powers if you had the other 3 IOs, for instance)
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| e. I'll probably end up selling them because too much power would make this game boring real fast. Does the difficult of enemies escalate with this power applied? Do the future drops get better with this power slotted? |
balance, no, the game's PvE enemies are balanced for SO's, so these are
for those folks who want to min-max they're power. In terms of boring,
that may be true for you, but another way to look at it is that you can
probably raise your difficulty slider above standard based on the improved
power of these (and other high-end IO's).
Mine, for instance, are on a PvP toon, so, the AI balance is a non-issue
for me. YMMV
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Congrats on your extraordinary run of luck!
I'm going to answer your questions and throw in occasional bonus answers, labeled [BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T ASK]. These things may be obvious, but they're important to know anyway.
a) Ranged is different from "Targeted AOE." A common cause of frustration (I've done it) is mistaking one for the other and trying to figure out why it won't take. If you right click on the power, or go to the enhancement page and look at the power, it should say what sorts of sets it takes. Ranged is single-target [like, say, Power Blast] while targeted AOE is multitarget [like, say, Energy Torrent.]
b) "Proc" is a chance-to-do . For instance, if you are using, say, Boxing there is a 20% chance to stun lieutenants and below, every time you swing. Energy Punch has a certain chance of knockback. And so forth. You can use various enhancements to add procs to powers that would not otherwise have them. So you could add a "Chance to stun" to, I don't know, Broadsword's "Hack" and get a similar effect.
In this case you have "chance of more damage"- it's a constant amount of damage- and it comes up for this particular enhancement 33% of the time, which is a lot more than most nonpurple procs. I got some very impressive results back when inventions were new, slotting procs in all my Ice Blaster's powers.
c) That is correct. You can slot an A: D/R and an A: D/R/A, in the same power or different powers, but it's only one A: D/R to a customer. [BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T ASK: You do not get the set bonuses unless the Apocs are slotted in the same power.]
d) [BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T ASK: I am not sure you understand slotting, or I don't understand your question, or both. You are aware that you can slot up to three regular damage IO's in the same power, and get pretty much full benefit from all three of them, right? You get almost full benefits up to 95% slotting in the same power, and after that you get very little benefit.]
e1) Make sure to check the price for selling the recipe, and the price for selling the crafted IO. Usually you can make 30-100 million more by spending a few million crafting it.
e2) You can increase the difficulty of enemies at any time by going to a Hero Corp representative and saying "I feel I'm about as tough as four heroes" or "I want to fight enemies +2 to my level" or whatever. Villainside, fateweavers have the contract for that service.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
Let me clarify this. I can stack the regular enhancements and I have done that in the past(For example, damage would show 53++) but when I stepped up to Recipe Enhancements I thought those couldn't stack. |
Originally Posted by Fulmens
d) [BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T ASK: I am not sure you understand slotting, or I don't understand your question, or both. You are aware that you can slot up to three regular damage IO's in the same power, and get pretty much full benefit from all three of them, right? You get almost full benefits up to 95% slotting in the same power, and after that you get very little benefit.
|
Post if I can stack the recipes enhancements.
Quote:
My problem with the slider is that I play on teams regularly. Many do not like the slider too high because it makes the missions too difficult. I don't solo anymore in CoH/CoV.
|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
e2) You can increase the difficulty of enemies at any time by going to a Hero Corp representative and saying "I feel I'm about as tough as four heroes" or "I want to fight enemies +2 to my level" or whatever. Villainside, fateweavers have the contract for that service.
|
Quote:
You are correct that you can't combine invention enhancements. What Fulmens is saying is that you can slot multiple enhancements that have the same effect in a single power (ie, three damage SOs, or an Apoc: Dam and an Apoc: Dam/Rech). The only restrictions are that you can't slot two set IOs with the same name in a single power (though you can slot them in different powers, as long as they aren't uniques), and that if the total enhancement value of all enhancements in a power is greater than three SOs worth (usually, but not always, 95%), they will start to have less effect due to a diminishing effects formula called Enhancement Diversification.
|
Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
Let me clarify this. I can stack the regular enhancements and I have done that in the past(For example, damage would show 53++) but when I stepped up to Recipe Enhancements I thought those couldn't stack.
Post if I can stack the recipes enhancements. |
@Roderick
Quote:
I'm not 100% sure what you're asking here, but I'll have a go.|
Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
d. What slots are you giving up to slot these? It seems like to get the most of the special slots you have to give up something. For example, I'll design a power that uses 6 slots. To make sure my powers are balanced, I'll do end cost, end red, accuracy, range, damage, and increased attack. But with these apocalyse or special enchancements for you to get the most the Damage enhancement have to be in place as the base for the increase so basically you have to give up/overwrite a power slot apply it. The new power automatically has a weakeness. If a power has 3 benefits, to slot it you have to have all 3 in place before you slot.
|
Purple sets have higher base enhancement values that most other enhancements (see the tables of relative enhancement values on Paragonwiki). So, for example, using only 5 slots and dropping the pure Damage IO because it's really overkill, Apocalypse will give you just in enhancement values to that specific power:
Accuracy: 59.62%
Damage: 89.82%
End Reduction: 33.13%
Recharge: 89.92%
(Note that you're actually getting more damage than that, because 33% of the time, the proc goes off to give you 107 points of negative energy damage, which ignores ED.)
Now, you might decide that isn't enough End Reduction, or you want to add extra Range, in which case, compared to your original six-slotted layout, you still have a spare slot which you could use to add more. Or, that might be good enough for you as it is, in which case you have a slot to use in another power.
Now, because you put the five pieces of Apocalypse in the same power, you also get the following set bonuses, which apply globally to you character:
16% Regeneration
3% HP bonus
4% damage - this applies to all your powers, and ignores ED.
10% recharge - this applies to all your powers, and ignores ED.
How much you'll benefit from this obviously depends on your character. Purple sets generally have Accuracy and Recharge as their biggest bonuses (the Apocalypse 4% damage buff is unusual), and so they're especially popular with people who are trying to perma something, or cycle big attacks faster, or save slots on other powers in tight builds. If you don't actually need buckets of global recharge and acc, then you can just sell the purple to people who do, and use the inf to buy more advantageous sets.
At the moment, I have 5 pieces of Apocalypse slotted in Blaze on a fire blaster. It gives nice enhancement and bonuses, and I use the extra slot for...something insanely overkill, actually. I think I have an HO in it. I have a few more purple sets slotted in her (my favourite, hands down, is Ragnarok in Fireball -- tons of Dam and Rech, plus the Knockdown proc :-) Overall, I certainly wouldn't say that they make the game too easy, though. They're just a slight tweak upwards in power over other set IOs, of much more benefit to some characters than other.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
I"m on the move right now...I'll be back. I need to ready closer the comments. About the slots, some of these recipes only enhance an exisiting power. For Example, you'll a invention damage. To get higher, you add another which says it will increase damage by xx. I"m assuming the increase comes from an existing slot in place...not just an increase. I have six slots but to balance properly. I really seven slots in some cases. The multi power inventions are less effective. Do this make more sense?
I wonder if ParagonWiki would help?
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Enhancements
This article covers the basics, including the difference between combining enhancements and stacking them.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
The classic slotting of an attack power is "four slots: one accuracy SO, three damage SO's." This would give you roughly 33% accuracy and 95% damage [would be 100% except for Enhancement Diversification.]
Instead of the first slot being accuracy, the second slot being damage, the third slot being endurance reduction and the fourth slot being recharge reduction, the second slot is damage, the third slot is damage, and the fourth slot is damage.
Is that clear?
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Replying to myself to pull something out of my old Viva Las Vegas guide:
Quote:
This may clarify; or not.
|
Almost all of you know almost all of this but I wanted to go over it anyway. If you miss one of these things, you could burn a million influence on something that doesn't work in your build. * Enhancement Diversification means anything over 90% is pretty much wasted. That's three SO's or [after level 25] three IO's. * You cannot slot the EXACT same enhancement ["Mako's Bite Accuracy/Damage"] twice in the same power. You can slot two Mako's Bite- one acc/damage, one damage/endurance- in the same power. You can slot two acc/damage if they are from different sets( Mako's Bite and Crushing Blow) in the same power. You can slot two Mako's Bite acc/damage in two different powers. *Pay attention to what an enhancement tells you it goes into. When you hover over the picture of the enhancement, you will see something like "Ranged Damage". *You want at least one SO of accuracy in each attack power; for most powers I like 1.5 . * If you slot two or more of the same set ["Mako's Bite Acc/Damage" and "Mako's Bite Acc/Damage/Endurance/Recharge"] in the same power, you get a little bonus for each thing you slot . Five slots? You get a bonus for 2, different bonus for the 3rd, different bonus for the 4th and different bonus for the 5th. You get all four of those bonuses. * You can add the same "little bonus" up to five times. No more than five, even if they're from different sets. 3% Resistance and 3.11% Resistance are different little bonuses! * "Recovery" means Endurance Recovery, like Stamina gives; "Regeneration" means HP Regeneration, like Health gives. |
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Let's dial this down a little bit. I'm talking about Invention Enhancements Only.
First, let me state my assumptions to draw the board for our discussion.
Goal: To maximize the Apocalyse Invention Enhancements
Assumption(These may be true or false and can be updated) but I'm basing my discussion on these:
1. If a power says it will increase something by x%, having an enchancement in place before you slot the Apocalyse can make a difference.
Examples: 1.No damage enhancement and slotting the apocalypse(less effective)
2.Invention Damage enhancement and then slotting the Apocalpse(maximized) because it is using the "new" recipe base to calculate the new damage %.
This is why I feel there is an automatic weakness. If I get a 3 slot(damage, recharge, accuracy) Apoc, I have to have the 3 recipes and 1 for the apocalyse so this leaves me with unbalance character. I need to find a way to get 7 slots. I will have to give up end red, or end cost, or knockback to use this enhancement because I need hold/immob and range. I gain tremendous damage but I'll lose some "control" over it.
I like the Wiki but it's not the final authority in my opinion. I play this game a lot and I have found so many exploits that I read the wiki some times and laugh. Does this make sense what I'm trying to say?
Nope, assumption 1 is definitely wrong. The order in which you slot enhancements never makes any difference. Never has, for any enhancement type.
First you look at the base effect of the power itself.
Then you look at the combined effect of all the enhancements (reduced by ED).
Then you apply the total enhancement benefit to the base effect of the power.
The order of the enhancements makes no difference.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
Quote:
Ignore the order. I know that has nothing to do with it. My point was that for the maximum damage you need to have an invention Damage in one of the slots before you place the Apocalypse.|
Originally Posted by peterpeter
Nope, assumption 1 is definitely wrong. The order in which you slot enhancements never makes any difference. Never has, for any enhancement type.
First you look at the base effect of the power itself. Then you look at the combined effect of all the enhancements (reduced by ED). Then you apply the total enhancement benefit to the base effect of the power. The order of the enhancements makes no difference. |
I'm assuming these levels:
a.Base Damage power
b.Base Damage power adjusted with enhancement(regular or invention)
c.Base Damage power with enhancement adjusted with Apocalypse enhancement
or it
d. Base Damage power adjusted with Apocalypse enhancement?
Quote:
Putting an IO of any kind, purple or otherwise, into a slot with an existing IO or SO simply replaces the old enhancement. It is overwritten, destroyed, and all its effects vanish.|
Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
Ignore the order. I know that has nothing to do with it. My point was that for the maximum damage you need to have an invention Damage in one of the slots before you place the Apocalypse.
|
E.g. You have a slot with a level 50 Common Damage IO in it. This gives you a damage bonus of 42.40% to that power. You drop an Apocalypse Damage into the slot. This give you a damage bonus of 53.00%. This is EXACTLY the same as if you dropped the Apocalypse Damage IO into an empty slot.
If, instead, you dropped in an Apocalypse Acc/Rech over the Common Damage IO, then that slot would give the power bonuses of 33.13% to Accuracy, 33.13% to Recharge, and no bonus to Damage. The Common Damage IO would once again be lost, and its effects completely replaced by the Apoc Acc/Rech.
Does that help?
ETA: Of your options above it is D. Purples behave exactly the same as other IOs.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
Quote:
That helps. Thank you. I "thought" that the purples need a prior IO slotted to maximize damage but your saying the purple can be slotted alone. I know they can't stack but I thought I could benefit from having a damage enhancement slotted prior but this is a incorrect assumption.|
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
Putting an IO of any kind, purple or otherwise, into a slot with an existing IO or SO simply replaces the old enhancement. It is overwritten, destroyed, and all its effects vanish.
E.g. You have a slot with a level 50 Common Damage IO in it. This gives you a damage bonus of 42.40% to that power. You drop an Apocalypse Damage into the slot. This give you a damage bonus of 53.00%. This is EXACTLY the same as if you dropped the Apocalypse Damage IO into an empty slot. If, instead, you dropped in an Apocalypse Acc/Rech over the Common Damage IO, then that slot would give the power bonuses of 33.13% to Accuracy, 33.13% to Recharge, and no bonus to Damage. The Common Damage IO would once again be lost, and its effects completely replaced by the Apoc Acc/Rech. Does that help? ETA: Of your options above it is D. Purples behave exactly the same as other IOs. |
The damage only ones are really the ones I want to slot then.
Quote:
Well, it depends how much of the set you're planning to use. If I'm using 5 parts of a purple set, I'll usually skip the 'pure' IO, because it loses so much to ED it's pretty much a waste of a slot.
|
Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
That helps. Thank you. I "thought" that the purples need a prior IO slotted to maximize damage but your saying the purple can be slotted alone. I know they can't stack but I thought I could benefit from having a damage enhancement slotted prior but this is a incorrect assumption.
The damage only ones are really the ones I want to slot then. |
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
Quote:
This is incorrect.| Ignore the order. I know that has nothing to do with it. My point was that for the maximum damage you need to have an invention Damage in one of the slots before you place the Apocalypse. |
The Apocalypse is (for sake of this discussion) a simple enhancement, like
an SO.
Scenario 1
----------
If you drop an even level Dmg SO in the power you get a 33% Damage Boost.
If you drop two Dmg SO's into it, you get 66% boost. Three, ~95% (due
to ED trimming)
In this scenario, the power is 3 slotted and you have 3 Dmg SOs in there.
Scenario 2
----------
You drop an SO into the power for 33% boost.
You combine it with another SO to get a + enhancement and you get ~35% boost.
You combine it with another SO to get a ++ enhancement - the boost is
now ~37%
In this scenario, you are using only one slot. It has a ++ Damage SO in it.
Scenario 3
-----------
You drop an Apocalypse Damage IO in - you get 53% boost.
You cannot combine it with anything - it's a straight 53%. Done.
You cannot put another Apocalypse Damage IO in this build - it's unique.
You drop the Apocalypse Proc in. Your damage boost is still 53%, but,
you now have a 16% Regeneration bonus for your character, and every
time you use that power, there is a 33% chance that you will cause
Negative Energy damage to your target.
You add a Dmg SO into the power. Your damage boost, is now ~86%, and
you still have the Regen bonus, and the chance to do Negative Energy
damage each time you use this power.
Here, you are using 3 slots with two Apocalypse IO's and a Damage SO.
Each slot is independant of each other. For IO's (including purples) you
cannot combine them - that is *only* for TO/DO/SOs.
For Enhancements having like attribute boosts (ie. Damage), those are
added together, subjected to ED, to get the total boost for that power.
Slotting order doesn't matter, and neither do types - you can have IOs,
DOs, SOs in the same power and you'll get full benefit from each (subject to ED).
Hope that helps clarify things.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Quote:
I think that Armageddon that you mention should be an Apocalypse...
|
Originally Posted by FourSpeed
Scenario 3
----------- You drop an Apocalypse Damage IO in - you get 53% boost. You cannot combine it with anything - it's a straight 53%. Done. You cannot put another Apocalypse Damage IO in this build - it's unique. You drop the Armageddon Proc in. Your damage boost is still 53%, but, you now have a 16% Regeneration bonus for your character, and every time you use that power, there is a 33% chance that you will cause Negative Energy damage to your target. You add a Dmg SO into the power. Your damage boost, is now ~86%, and you still have the Regen bonus, and the chance to do Negative Energy damage each time you use this power. Here, you are using 3 slots with two Apocalypse IO's and a Damage SO. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by FourSpeed
Scenario 3 ----------- You drop an Apocalypse Damage IO in - you get 53% boost. You cannot combine it with anything - it's a straight 53%. Done. You cannot put another Apocalypse Damage IO in this build - it's unique. You drop the Armageddon Proc in. Your damage boost is still 53%, but, you now have a 16% Regeneration bonus for your character, and every time you use that power, there is a 33% chance that you will cause Negative Energy damage to your target. You add a Dmg SO into the power. Your damage boost, is now ~86%, and you still have the Regen bonus, and the chance to do Negative Energy damage each time you use this power. Here, you are using 3 slots with two Apocalypse IO's and a Damage SO. Each slot is independant of each other. For IO's (including purples) you cannot combine them - that is *only* for TO/DO/SOs. For Enhancements having like attribute boosts (ie. Damage), those are added together, subjected to ED, to get the total boost for that power. Slotting order doesn't matter, and neither do types - you can have IOs, DOs, SOs in the same power and you'll get full benefit from each (subject to ED). Hope that helps clarify things. Regards, 4 |
Hell ya, I knew I could squeeze extra out of this! Thanks. What's your game handle, I'll send you some inf.
Over the past few days, I have entered drop heaven. I have rec'ved the following Apocalyse Drops during my adventures in CoH/CoV:
Proc: This enhancement has a chance of taking effect each time its power is used.
Apocalyse Damage
Apocalyse Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
Apocalyse Negative Energy Damage
I have not slotted these because I have so many questions. If someone is using these can they please comment on these questions:
a. What powers are you applying this to specifically and are you happy with the results? I read it can be applied to ranged so I'm considering applying it to the Dominator Crowd Control powers like Wormhole, Crushing Field or Gravity Distortion Field. This along with all 12 Alpha slots I have should make an "Interesting" character.
b. Negative Damage has a feature that the others don't have called:
The other Apocalypse Enchancements, do the effects work every time? The comment above made me wonder.
c. It says that only 1 type of this enhancement can be slotted per character. I can slot one of each of these(A:damage, A: D/R, A: D/R/A, A: R/A, A: D/E, and A: NED) for the same character, right?
d. What slots are you giving up to slot these? It seems like to get the most of the special slots you have to give up something. For example, I'll design a power that uses 6 slots. To make sure my powers are balanced, I'll do end cost, end red, accuracy, range, damage, and increased attack. But with these apocalyse or special enchancements for you to get the most the Damage enhancement have to be in place as the base for the increase so basically you have to give up/overwrite a power slot apply it. The new power automatically has a weakeness. If a power has 3 benefits, to slot it you have to have all 3 in place before you slot.
e. I'll probably end up selling them because too much power would make this game boring real fast. Does the difficult of enemies escalate with this power applied? Do the future drops get better with this power slotted?