Any Tanker can perform well enough to tank any content in the game. It mostly depends on your build, your team, and the strategy you use.
Mathematically, the best way to build a Tanker is with lots of healing, defense, and resistance. In practice, this means a Stone Armor Tanker in Granite form will be the best Tanker you can get. The trade-off is a recharge penalty, damage penalty, and a movement penalty that can be bypassed through teleport and IO set bonuses. The other Tankers that have the potential to perform almost as well as a Granite Tanker are Dark Armor, Electric Armor, and Invulnerability. All three of those sets have high resistances and can obtain high levels of defense.
For specifics on builds, search the forums for the Tanker primary of your choice. I just posted a Granite Tanker build in another thread.
Thanks for the reply, i am looking all over the forums sadly a lot of it I just dont understand with all the number totals and such. Still trying to decide how to go about this seeing that I want to be able to take all kinds of damage and have ok soloing abilities seeing that I find myself to be solo more often than not.
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Most tanks do not solo extremely well. They can.. they just dont do it as well as other melee AT's lole Brutes or Scrappers. Tanks IMO tend to shine best in teams where they can take and control all the aggro and the tanks teamates wipe out the enemy.|
Originally Posted by Zercon
Thanks for the reply, i am looking all over the forums sadly a lot of it I just dont understand with all the number totals and such. Still trying to decide how to go about this seeing that I want to be able to take all kinds of damage and have ok soloing abilities seeing that I find myself to be solo more often than not.
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I think you will find that any tank set well built will be able to deal with a large number of foes and take lots of damage. This the basis of how the AT is built. Massive Hit points. The highest resist caps and many sets with solid defense built in or the ability to build it with IO's.
If you are new to the AT I would probably recommend either Shield or Willpower as sets because Shield is easy to cap defense to all positions and Willpower because of its ability to regen health with foes in range.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Good to know I am new to this AT, ive only ever played trollers and def so really looking for a new role. Trying to be as good as i can out the gate first round.
I agree with the above assessments about Shield Defense and Willpower, but I would also include Invulnerability. They become "tough" earlier than most other sets, which is what makes them good for new players. However, Shield and Willpower may be more limited in what they can achieve with IO sets, compared to other primaries.
As I stated before, any Tanker primary will work. Pick what you want to play.
Try reading Abnormal Joe's introduction to Tanking: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=208495
That may make your choices easier.
After that, TRY STUFF! Yes, I know it might seem like a waste of time, but every Primary and Secondary is different. They each Play differently, with different strengths and weaknesses. We all have particular combos that we like, but We are not You and you may not enjoy the things we like.
If you'd like to see a bunch of different Tankers doing their thing, at various levels of ability, come on out to Tanker Tuesday sometime.
Oh, and Welcome to the world of Tankers.
Be Well!
Fireheart
For a first time tanker it's hard to go too far wrong with Invulnerability, on SO's it's good and when built to the soft cap it's just behind Granite Armor in durability. It also has a very good taunt aura and is quite tough in the low levels due to it's high resistance to the most common damage types. My Inv/Stone tanker was my first 50 and is still a favorite and my go-to tanker for tanking difficult content. It's nearly as tough as my Stone/Fire without all the negatives of -damage, -recharge and most importantly mobility.
Shield is also very good, with a very good taunt aura and with a little investment it can do nearly anything a well built Invuln can do. The only drawback is that it's mainly a defense based set; like all defense sets it's pretty squishy in the early going before it's defenses mature. I've found that until I get my defenses above 25% I feel like they aren't even there and I don't start feeling like a tank until they climb above 35%. When you get close to the 45% soft cap it does get really good though so the payoff is worth it. Shield also will offer high damage due to it's damage boosting taunt aura... my Shield/Fire tanker can do near-scrapper level damage.
Both of these primaries are highly capable if built well in the end game; I have tanked everything in the game with CMA, my Inv/Stone and I just finished a successful Master of Statesman's Task Force run on my Shield/Fire. It's a bit easier on an Invuln due to it's greater durability but Shield is no slouch.
I know people rave about Willpower and I'll admit it's quite durable, I just have difficulty suggesting it as a first tank due to it's terrible taunt aura... it's much harder to hold aggro with WP than with any other tanker primary. You'll need to taunt constantly and leverage your secondary attacks to hold aggro... and you'll still loose it to another tanker or even a shield or invuln scrapper. For this reason I think someone learning to tank is better served by another primary that holds aggro better.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
As someone who has run two Shield tanks to 50 (Currently a Shield/Dark/Fire), I have yet to find a primary that is more fun, and easier to make "good".
The main downside I've found with Shield so far is that, by sheer (bad) luck, it *is* possible to fail a Master run via an AV getting a critical hit through your defenses, and one-shotting you. I've had this happen on Statesman (Dr. Aeon hit with Total Focus for well over 2,600 damage) and... Either Tin Mage or Apex (I can't keep the two straight), Bobcat hit me with Eviscerate for somewhere around 3,800 damage. I'm not including Devouring Earth in the downsides, because they cheat, and don't count. 
The upsides are a taunt aura that boosts damage, an excellent "Tankernuke" (Shield Charge), a combination of positional defense along with resistance to everything except Psi, and a very effective Tier 9 in One with the Shield.
I would just like to state my feelings on something that often gets overlooked when building the toughest tank around.
The tanker who is the last man standing has failed.
I don't care how much you can survive, if you can't hold aggro, you're not a tank.
First to fight.
First to fall.
Never fall. (or, in my case, never fall without Soul Transfer being recharged)
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I would agree that Invuln is probably one of the easiest Tanks to learn on, and is easy to IO up to incredible preformance levels.
If you want a more aggressive Tank look to ones that have damage fields as their Taunt Auras, Dark, Fire and Electric. Shield Defense also falls into the "more damage" catagory with Shield Charge. Although not a Taunt Aura, it does excellent damage (as does the reworked Burn in Fiery Aura).
Most of the Damage Aura sets are Resist only and will require additional Defenses to really make them shine. So, IOs, Tough and Weave, Combat Jumping, and possibly Maneuvers from the Leadership Pools are your friend.
Stone is extremely tough once you get Granite and/or IO the toon up. As Granite Armor provides excellent Resists and Defense, it sacrafices Recharge and movement, which IOs can help to offset.
Ice Armor is a fun set to play and has probably the best "Taunt Auras" of all the sets in Chilling Embrace. It is a Defense Set with a touch of Resist thrown in, so again the Fighting Power Pool can really help here. Post level 26 life gets good and you get Energy Absorption, which is a +Defense, +End, slow resist, -Foe End power. (slot for Recharge 
)
Willpower can also be a fun set to run, and you'll probably end up shooting for +HP, +Regen and +Defense with IOs. A big advantage here is you get two Endurance Pools. One with the Power Set, Quick Recovery, and Stamina with the new Inherted Fitness. This can really be a help if you're taking Stone Melee or Dual Blades as your Secondary.
Anyways, welcome to the wonderful world of Tanking! Check out Tanker Tuesdays for all Tanker teaming and general mayhem.
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
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This can't be overstated, this is what the team hired you for, to keep the squishier members of the team alive and functioning. Your personal durability is important but what's far more important is your ability to protect the team. You're the fortress keeping the enemy at bay while the rest of the team are manning the guns on the walls.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I would just like to state my feelings on something that often gets overlooked when building the toughest tank around.
The tanker who is the last man standing has failed. I don't care how much you can survive, if you can't hold aggro, you're not a tank. First to fight. First to fall. Never fall. (or, in my case, never fall without Soul Transfer being recharged) |
I take it as a failure on my part if anyone on the team falls. Well, unless it's some idiot who went off on his own in another room; but I firmly believe that my job is to keep the team alive and free them to concentrate on laying out the hurt on the enemy instead of on self defense. Blasters for example can lay out incredible amounts of damage if they don't have to worry about aggro; a blaster who can trust the tanker to keep aggro away from him is much more effective than one who has to watch that he doesn't gather too much attention. The same holds true for all the other AT's as well.
As a general rule Scrappers don't need much babysitting; they're usually tough enough to handle a little aggro. Still, I do keep an eye on them as well and if they bite off too much I'm ready to intervene.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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While I understand the sentiment, there are limits to how much control you can exert over teammates. If you jump in first to grab aggro and find that two Blasters shot before you reached the enemy, absorbing the alpha in return and dying, and three other teammates ran in different directions and are each now training separate crowds back to the team, far exceeding your aggro cap, you could well be the last one standing, but is it your fault?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I would just like to state my feelings on something that often gets overlooked when building the toughest tank around.
The tanker who is the last man standing has failed. |
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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There's not a lot that can be done to account for stupidity, but in your example, there are things I can do.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
While I understand the sentiment, there are limits to how much control you can exert over teammates. If you jump in first to grab aggro and find that two Blasters shot before you reached the enemy, absorbing the alpha in return and dying, and three other teammates ran in different directions and are each now training separate crowds back to the team, far exceeding your aggro cap, you could well be the last one standing, but is it your fault?
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One of the tanker's jobs is to pace the team. If the team moves quick, the tank needs to be quicker. Those two blaster will be trying real damn hard to get to a spawn before I do.
For overaggro, my tank has Quicksand and Salt Crystals. The former can be used as a sort of caltrops with more range. Enemies avoid it, or slow down through it, giving us more time to deal with what's in front of us. Salt Crystals' huge radius allows me to jump into a large group and put all of them to sleep. The duration on that is very long as well, giving a team the time it needs.
Granted, these powers have recharge times and I can't do that all the time. There's nothing can be done for a team that tries to get itself killed.
My point is that survival is merely beneficial, while holding aggro is the part that's mandatory.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
OP: It may be useful to know that you can only keep the attention of 16 enemies at once. That is what the last few posts have been about. If your team attempts to fight any more than 16 enemies, your teammates will be attacked.
Here is a useful page about limits and caps.
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Slight correction: The number is actually 17.|
Originally Posted by Syntax42
OP: It may be useful to know that you can only keep the attention of 16 enemies at once.
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To expand a bit: There are ways that you can play with aggro. I did some extensive testing in an old freakshow map set to x8 with my tank and learned a few things.
You can have more than 17 enemies on your aggro list, but only the "top 17" will be allowed to attack you. I would jump into one spawn of enemies and aggro the whole group, then jump to a nearby spawn within range that the first group would follow. Some freakshow followed me, but many went back to their original spawn point. As I killed freakshow, however, those from the first group came back to me, without any actions by me. They were still aggro'd, but not allowed to attack until the others on the list were "removed."
This list is sorted, giving higher ranked enemies priority. If you are over your aggro cap, there is comfort in knowing that only the minions will stray from you and attack your teammates. The bosses would consistently follow me from group to group. Those left behind were always minions. This is very bad, however, when the one minion who strays is a sapper.
The list is also prioritized by who you have recently attacked. If you don't cause damage to an enemy when you are already at the aggro cap of enemies you have damaged, no amount of taunting will cause him to attack you.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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If the spawns are close enough, and the team is capable, I will often intentionally aggro that 2nd spawn with fireball and/or taunt, while sitting in the middle of the first spawn with death shroud, combustion, fire sword circle, and taunt. Works especially well if there is a controller or dominator on the team to help ensure the 1st spawn stays put. Basically constantly re-prioritizing the top 17, but effectively keeping 34 at least moderately interested in me...I know, I am such a flirt... |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Slight correction: The number is actually 17.
To expand a bit: There are ways that you can play with aggro. I did some extensive testing in an old freakshow map set to x8 with my tank and learned a few things. You can have more than 17 enemies on your aggro list, but only the "top 17" will be allowed to attack you. I would jump into one spawn of enemies and aggro the whole group, then jump to a nearby spawn within range that the first group would follow. Some freakshow followed me, but many went back to their original spawn point. As I killed freakshow, however, those from the first group came back to me, without any actions by me. They were still aggro'd, but not allowed to attack until the others on the list were "removed." This list is sorted, giving higher ranked enemies priority. If you are over your aggro cap, there is comfort in knowing that only the minions will stray from you and attack your teammates. The bosses would consistently follow me from group to group. Those left behind were always minions. This is very bad, however, when the one minion who strays is a sapper. The list is also prioritized by who you have recently attacked. If you don't cause damage to an enemy when you are already at the aggro cap of enemies you have damaged, no amount of taunting will cause him to attack you. |
The AoEs tend to make short work of the minions anyway, so after a couple of volleys the two spawns are really just one spawn of LTs and bosses and any minion who got lucky ;D
Tanking tips:
1. as you approach a group (if teaming) target the front mobs, jump OVER them and land in the back - taunt the front ones and start fighting the back ones. This stops cone attacks from harming your team and turns all of them with their backs to your people. Now you are fighting and looking BACK at your team. You can taunt any bad guys who stray after a squishie back into the fold.
2. MOVE - a LOT - normally your job in a team isn't damage it's holding aggro. I rarely punch the same guy 2 times in a row, I vary my target and keep moving letting my aura and Punchvoke/Gauntlet taunt them to me as I liberally taunt those nearest my squishies.
3. Keep it moving herding forward - a bored team starts to wander and pull unwanted aggro. Look at the health and stamina and if its ok leave the last few bad guys as you move forward taunt them one last time and head to the next group or groups. It's ok if the team takes 5-10 seconds to defeat the last of the mobs as you move forward.
4. Taunt versus no taunt. Taunt is a tool - it gives you a ranged aggro grabbing tool at level 10. Until you are into your late 30's most won't have access to any ranged attacks. You can go without taunt but you have to move a LOT more.
5. Corners - use corners to spread the damage in a high damage foe. Stand at a corner and taunt/attack then back up around the corner as those coming see you they will fire their initial salvo and it will be spread instead of all at once - then jump around the corner turning them for your team. They will then have their backs to your team and still be firing in a staggered way not all at once. This lets you survive even when it looks bleak.
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Unless of course some problem leads to the mobs being way over the arrgo cap.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I would just like to state my feelings on something that often gets overlooked when building the toughest tank around.
The tanker who is the last man standing has failed. I don't care how much you can survive, if you can't hold aggro, you're not a tank. First to fight. First to fall. Never fall. (or, in my case, never fall without Soul Transfer being recharged) |
You could arrgo that a good tank will keep that from happening though.
Thanks for all the responses I really appreciate the help, I have heard a lot of great advice. My thought was also on not being the "last one standing" but being able to hold agro and damage off the rest of the team. Im leaning towards Invul just not sure what 2nd to pair up with it.
Ok so i am trying out Fire/Fire and from what I have read this may not be the best choice but seems it would be a fun choice. Any pointers?
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I know some players who've built highly capable Fire tankers but most of them have also invested significant amounts in high end IO builds. On a standard SO or limited IO build you'll probably find Fire to be somewhat squishy. Of course, if you're enjoying the tank then that's the main thing, just realize that you're not going to be as durable as other primaries absent considerable IO bonuses.|
Originally Posted by Zercon
Ok so i am trying out Fire/Fire and from what I have read this may not be the best choice but seems it would be a fun choice. Any pointers?
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If you're still thinking of Invuln in my, admittedly somewhat biased, opinion it's the best all around primary for a tank. There's Stone with more raw durability but it comes with a bunch of penalties in mobility, damage & recharge as a tradeoff. There's Shield with more damage potential and very good endgame potential but it's a bit rough in the early going.
If you roll an Invuln really any secondary will work well. Do you want lots of damage without extra mitigation? /Fire or /Elec would work well, with /Fire giving better single target damage. Want more mitigation with a solid single target punch? /Stone melee is a great choice there with all the knockdown and the awesomeness of Fault. Want the classic, generic universal tanker combo? Inv/Super Strength is by far the most common pairing and it's quite effective.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Yeah kill or be killed. Resistance enhancements are schedule B, they do not boost survivability in the low levels by much as schedule B has a particularly low percentage gain to it. I went with schedule As, slotted up healing flames and blazing aura first, hastening healing flames asap and one thing people almost always do is take CJ as it is a long wait for Burn. Put a KB res IO in that. It's easier now fitness is inherent to squeeze in wanted powers in early. Back then I hastened consume for my endurance issues and slotted well endurance wise in attacks. Focusing on dam/end it was a case of defeat before being defeated. I slotted up armours once resistance schedule Bs would make a difference. Easily the faster leveler.
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Originally Posted by Zercon
Ok so i am trying out Fire/Fire and from what I have read this may not be the best choice but seems it would be a fun choice. Any pointers?
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Good luck and keep a Kinetic Dampener temp power ready.
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Originally Posted by Zercon
Ok so i am trying out Fire/Fire and from what I have read this may not be the best choice but seems it would be a fun choice. Any pointers?
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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First off thanks for the mention.|
Originally Posted by Fireheart
Try reading Abnormal Joe's introduction to Tanking: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=208495
That may make your choices easier. After that, TRY STUFF! Yes, I know it might seem like a waste of time, but every Primary and Secondary is different. They each Play differently, with different strengths and weaknesses. We all have particular combos that we like, but We are not You and you may not enjoy the things we like. If you'd like to see a bunch of different Tankers doing their thing, at various levels of ability, come on out to Tanker Tuesday sometime. Oh, and Welcome to the world of Tankers. Be Well! Fireheart |
To the op, fire/fire is a great soloist, and holds aggro like a sponge. You will not be the tank that can just stand there unhurt in the middle of a spawn forever, but hey! you won't need to. You will be dropping them like flies. I've tried building FA for regen/hp, double heals(Hf & aidself), melee defense, and typed def(s/l/nrg/neg) the last one seemed to work best. It's not the cheapest but you should earn enough in the course of your career to cover most if not all of it. Once its finished you will indeed be able to shrug off the dmg of massive spawns with no sacrifice to personal damage output. Something I find is often (and unnecessarily) overlooked in tanker builds.
Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders
Looking for any help/guidance for my first tank build that can take tons of damage and play a major role in teams. I have played on teams where I watch in awe of how some tanks can just stand there and get pounded without there health bar moving. How is this possible and what builds would be the best for this success? Any help would be greatly appreciated.