Quote:
The -tohit acts exactly like +defense on your character (and in fact, for your whole team), with two notable exceptions.|
Originally Posted by Cambios
2) What are the mechanics behind the -tohit from Cloak of Fear?
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1) They have to be affected by it. This means your enemies need to be in range of the debuff and they need to be hit by it. Cloak of Fear has an accuracy penalty, so it takes substantial enhancement to overcome this.
2) The debuff can be resisted. This means CoF will start to lose effectiveness as enemy level increases. 20% of the debuff is resisted by a +2 enemy, 52% by a +4. AVs resist debuffs by 85% before accounting for level difference.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
I have never heard of damage ruining or even effecting the -tohit. Nor the fear for that matter. Damage does allow a cowering enemy 1 attack per 5 seconds, but the fear continues for it's duration after that 1 attack.
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Originally Posted by Cambios
I seem to recall there was a time that damage not only ruined the fear, but also the -tohit. Either that or a lot of mobs resist the -tohit effect somehow. |
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
Don't forget that LTs and bosses also inherently resist the effect, which stacks in a multiplicative way with the effect of their being over your level.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
2) The debuff can be resisted. This means CoF will start to lose effectiveness as enemy level increases. 20% of the debuff is resisted by a +2 enemy, 52% by a +4. AVs resist debuffs by 85% before accounting for level difference.
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And yeah, damage should not be able to affect the -toHit debuff.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
There's no mention of this on the wiki, and it's not something I was aware of. I know LTs and bosses con higher, and have status protection, but I was not aware of any resistance they had.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Don't forget that LTs and bosses also inherently resist the effect, which stacks in a multiplicative way with the effect of their being over your level.
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I hate to ask it like "are you sure?" but ... do we have any proof that this is the case?
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
It took me a while to find it, but it was originally mentioned by Statesman here, during the explanation of a pre-I7 patch which changed the enhancement scale for toHit debuff enhancements.
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Edit: As for proof it's actually in the game, it should be easy to verify using the Attribute Monitor and a power like the Power Analyzer mk III. Barring that, though, I do see values that line up with Statesman's posts in the AT spreadsheet (the one originally given out by Iakona) under the ResMin row for toHit.
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Originally Posted by Statesman
Every single mob has now been given Accuracy to make it so that their base To Hit value is only .5 rather than the values you see above. In addition, higher ranks have an inherent resistance to To Hit Debuffs (.1 for Lts., .2 for Bosses, .3 for AVs).
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
The only reason I have slotted -tohit over fear powers is for better set bonuses in the -tohit
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
Well, that depends very much on the power. If you're running some of the powers available to Defenders, Corruptors and Controllers, like Darkest Night, Rad Infection or Fearsome Stare, the base magnitude on them is fairly immense. 70% of a large number is still a pretty large number, and slotting it is usually worth while.
Cloak of Fear? Not so much, in my opinion. Basically this power is a slot hog. It needs something to counter its low base accuracy, it wants a lot of endurance reduction, and that doesn't leave a lot of room to choose between slotting up the fear and the toHit. Of course set bonuses and the Alpha slot can help with these things, but I haven't looked at how far you can take it for them. The soft control of the fear is probably the best aspect of CoF, and I'm not a big fan of it given how cheap and easily managed OG is. YMMV.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I am not trying to get in too much of a CoF vs. OG debate, since that has been hashed out many times here. Though I understand that in any discussion of CoF, the comparison in usefulness to OG is always going to be out there just because that's basically how the dark armor set breaks down.
I've used OG for many years now, and for the most part I like it, but it really bugs me that I have to pay health to run it (that just seems unfair/negatively balanced) and the stagger effect of disoriented mobs is just annoying - not a huge problem, but annoying.
So in my rebuild of my spines/da scrapper, I'm trying to work in a lot more defense. If I can get maneuvers AND weave, that would be ideal, but I at least want one of them. This will get my defense in the 15-20% range, which puts it high enough that an additional -tohit debuff would make a difference I think.
Is it confirmed that damage doesn't truly break fear, it just lets them get 1 attack per 5 seconds? If so, then it means CoF is always providing a significant benefit from the fear, even if your damage auras are "breaking" it?
What if you have two damage auras - e.g. death shroud AND quills. Do they get 2 attacks per 5 seconds?
I understand that CoF is a slot hog, and that's a pain. Given that, I still might end up sticking with OG. But I'd like to get an idea of how much mitigation I am actually going to get out of CoF. If it is significant, I'd seriously like to consider it.
Well my dark tank has +def from lots of set bonuses, so the extra amount from -tohit certainly has it's place.
Consider that I can stand in a mob from the Cathedral of Pain (high psi damage) and live indefinitely with CoF up, but die pretty quick when I turn it off.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
OG is great for how cheap it is to make it useful (and the health cost is practically nothing). But CoF has it's uses for how 'sticky' and 'stacky' it is. It's sticky cause, even when foes run away, the fear will stop them again. It's stacky for any set that doesn't have stuns in their sets. If you choose claws or spines or some other set without a stun, your best bet is picking up a pool attack for a chance to stun Lts. But anyone can pick up the presence pool and fear bosses.
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Any damage simply opens a window for the victim to act. Have you ever fought a Longbow/Carnie Illusionist and been hit with fear? You can't act or run except occasionally. It's the same for mobs. Occasionally, damage will open a window for them to either attack or run then the window closes again. This keeps going until the duration of the fear wears off.| What if you have two damage auras - e.g. death shroud AND quills. Do they get 2 attacks per 5 seconds? |
As for the -ToHit, I always found it decently useful but I play a Spines/DA stalker. AS gives unresistable -ToHit on top of any you get from the cloak. For an alpha strike, this is helpful (even if only a little) when you stack defense with it. For whatever reason, I ended up IOing my stalker for energy/neg and ranged defense (in the 30% energy/25% ranged with some other defense sprinkled in) simply because...well, energy attacks hurt him bad and if they were close enough to melee, they'd be feared. Probably not optimal, but certainly cheaper than aiming for Smashing/lethal defense.
PS: A quick question to add. For whatever reason, I slotted the Siphon Insight set x5 for the melee defense and decided to put the +ToHit proc in there (it was more useful than Acc/Rech). I guess you can say it was for concept but I was just curious what the stats were on it. I tried testing it on weaker foes and it rarely ever procced and when it did, it seemed to wear off quickly (monitoring ToHit buffs).
Quote:
My spines/da is sitting at about 42% s/l defense if i remember correctly
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Originally Posted by Cambios
I am not trying to get in too much of a CoF vs. OG debate, since that has been hashed out many times here. Though I understand that in any discussion of CoF, the comparison in usefulness to OG is always going to be out there just because that's basically how the dark armor set breaks down.
I've used OG for many years now, and for the most part I like it, but it really bugs me that I have to pay health to run it (that just seems unfair/negatively balanced) and the stagger effect of disoriented mobs is just annoying - not a huge problem, but annoying. So in my rebuild of my spines/da scrapper, I'm trying to work in a lot more defense. If I can get maneuvers AND weave, that would be ideal, but I at least want one of them. This will get my defense in the 15-20% range, which puts it high enough that an additional -tohit debuff would make a difference I think. Is it confirmed that damage doesn't truly break fear, it just lets them get 1 attack per 5 seconds? If so, then it means CoF is always providing a significant benefit from the fear, even if your damage auras are "breaking" it? What if you have two damage auras - e.g. death shroud AND quills. Do they get 2 attacks per 5 seconds? I understand that CoF is a slot hog, and that's a pain. Given that, I still might end up sticking with OG. But I'd like to get an idea of how much mitigation I am actually going to get out of CoF. If it is significant, I'd seriously like to consider it. |
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
Quote:
I assume that's with a lot of set bonuses and such. I'd love to see that if you can PM me the MIDS info on the build. |
Originally Posted by Hejtmane
My spines/da is sitting at about 42% s/l defense if i remember correctly
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Do you use Cloak of Fear? Does the fear actually do much? Is the -tohit noticeable?
What about defense to other damage types? I find that once you have 50% s/l resist and 20% s/l defense, you already have nothing to fear from s/l. Then its just all the other dmg types you have to worry about.
Quote:
I am very curious as to how or where you got this number?|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Damage does allow a cowering enemy 1 attack per 5 seconds, but the fear continues for it's duration after that 1 attack.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cambios
Do you use Cloak of Fear? Does the fear actually do much? Is the -tohit noticeable?
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Yes, it is true that mobs can resists -ToHit, but only AVs can do so to a sufficient degree to make CoF questionable. CoF has a base -ToHit value of 5%. Even when fighting +4 that resist 52%, you're still applying a base 2.6% -ToHit. Consider how much effort place into adding 2-3% defense to their build.
3% Defense isn't really noticeable, but stack up enough defenses and it become quite significant. 2.6% -ToHit translates into the same equation.
With the right builds (especially when using Cardiac Boost Alpha), CoF can be effective with only 4 slots. Obviously you need to have the necessary endurance management to run it and the accuracy sufficient to hit your targets.
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Quote:
Just a guess, but I'm thinking Psi Damage wasn't what killed you when you turned off CoF.
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Originally Posted by Lohenien
Consider that I can stand in a mob from the Cathedral of Pain (high psi damage) and live indefinitely with CoF up, but die pretty quick when I turn it off.
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SI Radio has many DJs and listeners whom hold City of Heroes close to their hearts. We will be supporting many efforts to keep CoH ALIVE!!
Quote:
I consider my Cloak of Fear effective with two slots - L53 Endoplasm and L50 Nightmare acc/end. It could certainly be better, but I didn't feel that making it better was worth the additional slots. Yes, I'm running the cardiac boost.
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Originally Posted by Desmodos
With the right builds (especially when using Cardiac Boost Alpha), CoF can be effective with only 4 slots. Obviously you need to have the necessary endurance management to run it and the accuracy sufficient to hit your targets.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
What kind of dark armor toon are you using it on? And do you use it instead of OG?|
Originally Posted by Werner
I consider my Cloak of Fear effective with two slots - L53 Endoplasm and L50 Nightmare acc/end. It could certainly be better, but I didn't feel that making it better was worth the additional slots. Yes, I'm running the cardiac boost.
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What is your overall experience with it?
How helpful is the fear? How helpful is the -tohit?
Quote:
I'm running a soft-capped Katana/Dark. Yes, I use it instead of Oppressive Gloom. It's most useful when I'm AV soloing, as it keeps my Dark Regen fuel very passive. I like how it looks, and it's fun having your enemies cowering in place. It's also easier to keep Divine Avalanche up when minions aren't wandering all over. And I'm sure it reduces incoming damage some, even if not by a large amount. So I guess my overall experience with it is quite positive, but that positive experience is entirely from the fear portion (and from concept and graphics). Since I'm soft-capped, the to hit debuff portion is normally worthless to me. I'm sure it helps some occasionally, like when defense debuffed, but not enough that I consider it any more than a negligible benefit in my specific build.
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Originally Posted by Cambios
What kind of dark armor toon are you using it on? And do you use it instead of OG?
What is your overall experience with it? How helpful is the fear? How helpful is the -tohit? |
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
I will post it here it also got a ton better when I got the alpha slot and the extra endurance reducer in the build from the alpha|
Originally Posted by Cambios
I assume that's with a lot of set bonuses and such. I'd love to see that if you can PM me the MIDS info on the build.
Do you use Cloak of Fear? Does the fear actually do much? Is the -tohit noticeable? What about defense to other damage types? I find that once you have 50% s/l resist and 20% s/l defense, you already have nothing to fear from s/l. Then its just all the other dmg types you have to worry about. |
What you find with most attacks in the game they have either a smash or lethal component to it not all but a large % so you get the highest defense to which ever one you have so over all he plays a lot better
My st attack chain is lunge >ripper >lunge > Throw spines not the best one but it got me about where I wanted to be with the recharge I have. I taken out several EB's with ease and have not had problems in groups with AV's so it has been good enough
Yes I skipped Impale and no i do not miss it with that long softball wind up I skipped it to get the numbers I wanted
Code:
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Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
Quote:
yes lots of set bonuses, I use COF because I was able to get 3.75% s/l defense and yes the -tohit seems to help. I done this on purpose I round up all minions and LT's stood in the middle with armors turned on , cof and my two damage auras went afk and came back to everything dead.|
Originally Posted by Cambios
I assume that's with a lot of set bonuses and such. I'd love to see that if you can PM me the MIDS info on the build.
Do you use Cloak of Fear? Does the fear actually do much? Is the -tohit noticeable? What about defense to other damage types? I find that once you have 50% s/l resist and 20% s/l defense, you already have nothing to fear from s/l. Then its just all the other dmg types you have to worry about. |
Cof is weird minions cower start to attack cower attack miss a lot some times they run a short distance then run back in and cower so the mitigation works great on minions. It is just different and kind weird.
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
My spines/dark has always been a project character for me. I love it but I can never get it to work just right. IOs saved it from the trash heap, since it gave me a way to have some endurance, but I still can't get it quite right.
I've recently decided to work on a build with a good bit of defense, and as a result I'm more and more interested in the -tohit feature of Cloak of Fear.
Right now I use Oppressive Gloom as a major mitigation tool, and it works pretty well. It is a tad annoying the way mobs will wander, and the health loss can be a pain, but it seems to work well.
But if the -tohit from Cloak of Fear, combined with occasionally making mobs cower, could do almost as well, it might be really awesome to switch to that.
I seem to recall there was a time that damage not only ruined the fear, but also the -tohit. Either that or a lot of mobs resist the -tohit effect somehow.
So my main questions are:
1) What are the exact mechanics for how damage breaks fear? I've read some people say it will only break it once every 7 seconds, so minions will still be feared quite a bit.
2) What are the mechanics behind the -tohit from Cloak of Fear?
Thanks!