Huntsman (pre- and post- 24 branch leveling build)

No idea (yet...) since I haven't taken my build back into Mids' since ATOs launched. As I said above, I'll need to look into doing that someday ...

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

A post so good my very first post had to be a necropost!

I heartily approve of chainsaws! Especially titan ones! That could get me to buy titan weapons....

Regarding cost, a quick examination of the consignment house told me that it's not going to be cheap at all, but if I'm willing to be patient, I think I can manage it. I've been poking at the economy anyhow so I'm not very likely as poor as the average person who doesn't have a fifty yet. The economy here is *odd* but there seems to be a "convenience" market for turning recipes into crafted goods, so a little patience lets me build a stash that I can turn into goodies, and I always find crafting addictive on any MMO, so I might as well get some use out of it. (People will pay what seems to me absurd amounts for common accuracy IOs that I've memorized the recipes on, for instance.) Simply trying to buy it as recipes rather than finished pieces helps my budget a lot -- salvage tends to swing up and down so I try to craft only from the cheap end. I've already picked up a few of the easier recipes for cheap, though it's mostly not anything I'll want to slot until later in order to create sets. I also got a lucky performance shifter end proc, which is going in as soon as I finish dithering over my respec.

I've bought recipes with AE tickets and they are set to the level of my character -- do merit and alignment purchases work the same way? If so then I'm wondering if I should turn off XP in a level (she's currently 26) while she builds a library of recipes. On the other hand I hear rumors that level 50s generate inf practically by breathing, and I look at her current small stash of reward merits and wonder if those come faster. (Note to self... do more tip missions; those are a guaranteed source of goodies and I've been enormously enjoying them since she hit 20 for the plot alone, so plot + goodies == win.)

I definitely feel like this is a slow blooming strategy, but there's a huge satisfaction in being able to have a plan that "keeps" into the fifties. In fact I tried making a "money is no object" build in MIDS out of curiosity, to see how she'd differ if built as some sort of Athena-like character who sprang out of my forehead at 50 with all sorts of expensive purple toys, and it was astonishingly difficult to soft-cap her as easily. It looks like a lot of good armor bonuses are down in the 20s, though I did miss out on some tasty things by not taking a lot of those great sets that come in at 30. But while I could build an astonishing amount of recharge... and trust me, I became addicted to recharge enhancements the second I figured out that they made my favorite clickies click faster... I felt kind of naked and struggling between building in the oodles of recharge on offer at higher levels and scraping for those last five points of defense. That may be a flaw in my building or in the electric/shield scrapper combo, or in my choice of powers (a LOT of PBAOEs), but it was just *easier* to get capped along with nice (I hope) levels of recovery and regen using the outwardly more constrained level 27 build plan. (Mostly because those decadent big recharge bonuses weren't there to tempt me away from the armor bonuses, I bet.)

Also, for some reason I feel less constrained by noobness on the level 27 build. "Well, she can actually slot these now!" I think. I feel less worried that I'll make an expensive mistake, even though logically I realize that it can still be pretty expensive. It just "feels" less expensive for some reason.

Given that I'm already having a blast (literally) playing her in SOs at low levels, I'm not worried about it taking a while to get her sets in order, either. This way every time I replace an SO with a set piece I get to cheer!

Regarding SoAs, I just managed to fit one in on Virtue (my favorite server) so she is way more likely to get some face time, though my altitis is terrible to behold, see above about how my highest is a puny 26. I haven't played one past 6 but wow do I love how well the powers synergize even that early, given the ability to choose plenty of ranged attacks and the inherent ranged defense and accuracy -- unlike a lot of sets, this one comes out of the box ready to go and kick a lot of behind, and it just felt really well put-together; I was actually using my evil laugh a lot, running her through missions at all of level 6. Usually the "Muahaha!" doesn't come out until at least level 10, though my mastermind and stalker both started earlier. (Yes, I have terminal altitis, and at least one of each AT, why do you ask?) My little dual pistol blaster is awfully jealous, though dual pistols has its own gun-fu charm, but she feels both less deadly and less durable than my SoA, poor thing. In my head, she's plotting to assassinate my SoA so her playtime doesn't vanish. But given the durability that might be difficult!

I would be very interested in seeing Redlynne's current crunching on Leggs, who I find very inspirational. Going into the tradeoffs between sets was very educational... I'm not actually sure which side of SoA I would feel most drawn to. So far, the riflery is *completely* satisfying, but it's early days yet of course. It's possible that the bane side would get even more "Muahahas!" out of me. (And really, if I'm playing a villain, that's a lot of what it's about.) I'm a little intimidated by the unquellable costume of the bane backpack, but may end up loving it... I may try it out in the training room if I get her high enough to have it as an option. Right now I'm just in a clone of the generic soldier goon armor that I've tried to make colored exactly the same as the NPCs, while I work through the early "goon" levels. I don't get many armor options anyhow, so might as well embrace it!

Recently got talked back into trying my own huntsman. Originally gave up on him because he felt so lackluster in terms of damage, but then I saw a certain Huntswoman Indigo in action and it rekindled my interest.

One issue I had was trying to make it something of a "pure" huntsman, in that I didn't want to take buildup and have him occasionally dragging out a mace he never actually uses. Nor did I want to delve into crab and end up with a backpack that never does anything.

(Although briefly I entertained the thought of a huntsman/crab hybrid on the idea that lobbing grenades from the arms and having a rifle purely for bullets would be awesome, the constant redraw became unbearable and I abandoned it.)

I was actually surprised at how similar our builds were in terms of power selections. I dropped a few things to pick up kick/tough/weave to softcap myself, but I will definitely be looking into adding Range to Heavy Burst.

The other thing I had to consider as I look into revising the planned build I had is his recharge. There are plenty of places where I could get more bonuses, but I'm trying to figure out how much is actually needed. As I sit here tweaking things, I can get it to the point where, -without- hasten, our attacks vary only slightly.

Your Single Shot and Burst are only .5 seconds faster on the recharge then mine.
Your Heavy Burst is only 1 second faster then mine.
Your Venom Grenade is .2* seconds faster.
Your Frag Grenade is .4 seconds faster.

*This is largely due to my slotting the ATO set instead of Posi's. Regular, not catalyzed, since I'm feeling competitive and, in the spirit of keeping costs down, the whole set could be bought on the spot for less then 50 million. Or, less then one LOTG +rech.


So I wonder. Would, say, one extra second added to the recharge times (on average) make a drastic difference in how Leggs plays? For you, it's just a matter of not running hasten, while for me I could probably free up a half dozen slots to help pad his defense numbers.

Surprisingly enough, it does actually make a difference (that's noticeable) in actual gameplay. My stock'n'trade open move(s) on a new spawn group are:

1. Web Grenade (to Immobilize)
2. Venom Grenade (AoE Damage and debuff Resistances)
3. Frag Grenade (AoE Damage, Knockback mitigated by Web Grenade)
4. Heavy Burst (Cone Damage)
5. Burst
... wash, rinse, repeat ...

When I'm Malefactored down to lower levels, I find myself needing to make use of Single Shot to round out the attack chain so I don't have downtime pauses. I also find Single Shot/Burst get used a LOT more often at lower levels (no surprise there), while Single Shot tends to become less important at higher levels (where Agility Alpha kicks in to boost Recharge in everything). So it's not like I'd want to delete Single Shot from my build, since it proves useful over too wide a level range for dealing with Exemplar reductions in IO enhancement strength.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

Got two things to say:

First, can this get stickied? (or is it already in some form?)

Second, makes me really want my new hard drive/computer back along with my Mids build files, my own Huntswoman was sitting around level 47 when the old hard drive faceplanted. This thread is driving me nuts wanting to play her

Doomguide

Just for giggles, I checked to see how this thread ranks in terms of views in this forum ... and it is ranked at #2 for not-yet-stickied threads. The only other not-yet-sticky thread with more page views? What did you name your Arachnos?

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

Clearly Arachnos are a high draw! My husband is very Mastermind-crazy (he has four now) but he just created a Soldier after seeing how happy I was with mine even at very low levels. And I've recreated mine on the same server so we can play them together. (I have a baby Widow, too, but I had so much more fun with Soldier than Widow at low levels that I'll probably save that one for groups and use the Soldier to explore the Arachnos arcs.)

I will second the sticky response; I went looking for threads on building for exemplaring and found this one immensely useful for both that and for leveling and building a Soldier.

I have a question about non-set pieces while exemplaring. I've been planning for level 50 common IOs with the understanding that they will be reduced when exemplaring, because they give the most bang for the buck at level 50. According to the page on ParagonWiki, a level 50 quad isn't reduced at all at any level of exemplaring, and a level 43 trio likewise. If I have a slot free and want to just add some damage/endurance or damage/recharge to a power, will I get hurt badly when exemplaring if I use a level 50 combo IO? Should I be thinking harder about HOs in those slots? Or should I just go ahead and put in a 50 damage/endurance or whatever to boost me in level 50 play, and not worry about how it's reduced when exemplaring because it doesn't affect my set bonuses?

If I don't mind losing the last set bonus on a set while exemplaring (like Positron's, for example -- a little toxic resistance is okay but not earth-shatteringly good), would putting one of the pieces at 50 or 43 to get more overall enhancement bonuses out of it when I'm not exemplaring make sense?

Another question I have is about the Force Feedback proc. Does it proc often enough on a fairly fast cycling AoE (for example, Thunder Strike, with about a 10 second recharge+cast time) that I can slot Energy Torrent purely for damage? Or should I put one in each to keep the uptime higher? The build in question is for an Electric/Shield Defense scrapper and based on my reading, Shield Charge and Lightning Rod both create pseudo-pets which means that procs either don't work properly in them or sometimes do very odd things like hit the caster with a damage proc, so I have avoided putting procs into either. (That made building sets kind of awkward there; a lot of the PBAOE sets have procs, and Force Feedback would look good in there if I could be sure it would work properly and not buff the pseudo-pet instead of me.) With the upcoming proc changes should I count on Force Feedback at all? I'd like to use it if I can, as some extra recharge would be very helpful.

Edit: I checked the wiki and it looks like Chain Induction's problems with damage procs was fixed, as well as Lightning Rod's tendency to zap the user with procs, but I still am not sure that Force Feedback would work in Lightning Rod or Shield Charge, as it might try to buff the pseudo-pet rather than me. I don't have those powers yet but when I do I can try them out on the test server.

Sorry about not responding sooner. I've been off playing Diablo III since the 15th and this is literally the first time I've looked at the CoH Forums again since then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flitbit I have a question about non-set pieces while exemplaring. I've been planning for level 50 common IOs with the understanding that they will be reduced when exemplaring, because they give the most bang for the buck at level 50. According to the page on ParagonWiki, a level 50 quad isn't reduced at all at any level of exemplaring, and a level 43 trio likewise. If I have a slot free and want to just add some damage/endurance or damage/recharge to a power, will I get hurt badly when exemplaring if I use a level 50 combo IO? Should I be thinking harder about HOs in those slots? Or should I just go ahead and put in a 50 damage/endurance or whatever to boost me in level 50 play, and not worry about how it's reduced when exemplaring because it doesn't affect my set bonuses?

If you're wondering about "frankenslotting" where you're using Set IOs and not picking them out for the Set Bonuses ... by all means, slot level 50s for that too. The simple fact of the matter is that when you Exemplar, you're going to be Exemplaring ... and slotting low for "singles" isn't going to get you any advantages (except in a few rare edge cases like Luck of the Gambler's global recharge "proc"). Best thing to do for Common IOs (and other "unlinked" single enhancements that aren't producing Set Bonuses for you) is to slot them as level 50 and "not worry" about what kinds of values they reduce to when you Exemplar.

If you ARE dealing with "linked" IOs that offer Set Bonuses though, you want to make sure that you're slotting all the parts and pieces of that Set (with the exception of any Procs in it) all at the same Level (in my builds, either 27, 31 or 37 (the last for Snipe Sets) typically) so as to have their Set Bonuses be "active" at Levels 24 (Flashback Arcs and -1 level below a TF/SF breakpoint), 28 (Moonfire TF and just -1 level below another Flashback Arcs grouping and -2 levels below TF/SF breakpoint), and 34 (Flashback Arcs and Katie Hannon TF/SF breakpoint). I assign Proc IOs the lowest possible Level on the Enhancement so that if I ever have to "move" them by respec to another character, they're "available" for slotting as early as possible in that other character's lifetime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flitbit If I don't mind losing the last set bonus on a set while exemplaring (like Positron's, for example -- a little toxic resistance is okay but not earth-shatteringly good), would putting one of the pieces at 50 or 43 to get more overall enhancement bonuses out of it when I'm not exemplaring make sense?

That's a judgement call you'll have to make for yourself. I've personally NEVER found a good reason for "staging" Set Bonuses to be only partially active at THIS level, but then fully active at THAT level later on. I just prefer the simplicity of having the entire Set either "on or off" depending on what Level I am Exemplar at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flitbit Another question I have is about the Force Feedback proc. Does it proc often enough on a fairly fast cycling AoE (for example, Thunder Strike, with about a 10 second recharge+cast time) that I can slot Energy Torrent purely for damage? Or should I put one in each to keep the uptime higher? The build in question is for an Electric/Shield Defense scrapper and based on my reading, Shield Charge and Lightning Rod both create pseudo-pets which means that procs either don't work properly in them or sometimes do very odd things like hit the caster with a damage proc, so I have avoided putting procs into either. (That made building sets kind of awkward there; a lot of the PBAOE sets have procs, and Force Feedback would look good in there if I could be sure it would work properly and not buff the pseudo-pet instead of me.) With the upcoming proc changes should I count on Force Feedback at all? I'd like to use it if I can, as some extra recharge would be very helpful.

I ran a spreadsheet analysis a while back to determine how many times per minute you would need to Force Feedback to Proc it's +100% Recharge so as to "match" the global set bonus buff of Kinetic Crash (+7.5% @ 6 slots) on a full time basis. The answer came back that you'd need Force Feedback to Proc once every 66-67 seconds in order to match the rate of return you get from a +7.5% global recharge set bonus.

Personally, I find that Force Feedback is either going to be useful in Single Target powers that you're going to be using A LOT as part of your regular attack chain (so as to "throw lots of dice" to give them plenty of opportunities to Proc) ... or ... put the Force Feedback Proc into a Target AoE or Cone power where you give the Proc plenty of targets per use of the power to Proc on (again, "throw lots of dice" to get a Proc). In the context of a Soldier/Huntsman build, that tends to be Frag Grenade ... and in actual use can result in being able to chain together the Web+Venom+Frag+Heavy Burst Soldier powers *MUCH* faster than would otherwise be possible, yielding a "spike" of AoE Damage that produces very important battlefield/tactical gains on a situational basis. It also means that if you chain Proc your Force Feedback, because you're using almost nothing *but* AoE attacks, your Endurance Burn ramps up dramatically ... so you do wind up "paying for it" eventually.

You don't want to be putting Force Feedback into Pseudopet powers, because the only chance for the Proc to affect YOU is when you cast them (which makes the Return on Investment very low). Once the Psuedopet is "out" and casting, any Procs from Force Feedback affect the Psuedopet and not YOU ... and all "pets" (including Pseudopets) are Unaffected By Recharge ... meaning the effect is "wasted" on them.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

Here's an update, actually specifically soldier-related!

I want to start leveling my baby Huntswoman, so I went through Redlynne's latest Huntswoman build with a fine-toothed comb. It fits right into my love of high recharge ranged carnage, and looks amazingly sturdy as well as a great team player with the auras, and good stam to be able to keep those auras up. Wow!

I originally was planning to go combat jumping rather than hover, but it's awfully tempting to be able to hover out of range and take advantage of that softcapped range defense. Maybe rocket boots are in order?

I'm tempted to switch the Entropic Chaos set in Burst with the Arachnos ATO -- I'd be sacrificing one of the chance to heals and some endurance with higher damage and better recharge. I'm not wedded to the 6-piece bonus on that, so I could keep the -res proc. Another tempting-looking place to put the ATO proc is into Venom Grenade -- I could sacrifice 5mph in hover speed and a little in overall defenses (but keep the softcap on Ranged) to move a Luck recharge from Cloaking Device into Hover, then move that slot to Venom Grenade and add the ATO proc for area terrorized/-damage instead of single-target. I don't really know how well it procs in cones, though.

I'm planning on working through the villain questlines with this character, so I really like how Soldiers are fun right out of the box so I won't be terribly impatient to level. I already dislike how fragile Widows feel in their early stages, so I may group more intensively with that one to speed past the awkward age and into the Fortunata goodness. Soldiers do not have this issue!

My spouse's Soldier is around 20, is one of his "do all villain questline" characters because he's enjoying him so much, and has already acquired a Longbow-esque "deniable" outfit. He is opting for some melee in his build because he just likes whacking people upside the head, so he may end up "Bane-ier".

Well, this is amusing. I drop out to go play D3 for 4 weeks ... until the 1.0.3 patch that wrecked the game (for me) came out, and since then I haven't been at all motivated to keep playing D3 at all. And now when I find some time to come back and check the CoH boards, I find this little present waiting for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flitbit I want to start leveling my baby Huntswoman, so I went through Redlynne's latest Huntswoman build with a fine-toothed comb. It fits right into my love of high recharge ranged carnage, and looks amazingly sturdy as well as a great team player with the auras, and good stam to be able to keep those auras up. Wow!

Let me tell you Flitbit, that build has been through a LOT of hours in Mids' and even more hours of Real Testing to make sure it was a pretty darn "sturdy" build able to withstand almost anything (except Endurance Drain). And yeah, the "ankle deep in spent brass" feeling you while playing it is pretty much like nothing else I've got in my list of characters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flitbit I originally was planning to go combat jumping rather than hover, but it's awfully tempting to be able to hover out of range and take advantage of that softcapped range defense. Maybe rocket boots are in order?

Rocket boots just plain look good, if you're going for boots. I prefer the old style strappy sandals (not the new yucky Man Foot ones!) and either skirts or shorts on my Huntswoman (who was a very "leggy" former lingerie model(!) before she was "abducted" and recruited into the SoA program by a very sadly mistaken lab assistant of Dr. Aeon).

As for Combat Jumping vs Hover ... being able to "hang in the sky the way that bricks don't" is just far too valuable AT ALL LEVELS OF PLAY to really be a fair question. The additional END cost isn't that great (although it is something I definitely have to monitor with my build in uninterrupted combat!), but the freedom of positioning simply cannot be beat. And in the early levels, being able to go *UP* and stay there will be the best "resistance" you can buy against incoming damage bar none!

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Originally Posted by Flitbit I'm tempted to switch the Entropic Chaos set in Burst with the Arachnos ATO -- I'd be sacrificing one of the chance to heals and some endurance with higher damage and better recharge. I'm not wedded to the 6-piece bonus on that, so I could keep the -res proc. Another tempting-looking place to put the ATO proc is into Venom Grenade -- I could sacrifice 5mph in hover speed and a little in overall defenses (but keep the softcap on Ranged) to move a Luck recharge from Cloaking Device into Hover, then move that slot to Venom Grenade and add the ATO proc for area terrorized/-damage instead of single-target. I don't really know how well it procs in cones, though.

I haven't gotten around to respeccing for the ATOs yet, and was pretty much planning on waiting for the Summer Event to snag a pile of KB Limiter Procs before making any decisions. I suspect however that the KB Limiter Proc will probably wind up being most useful in Frag Grenade (go figure) which means that that ATOs will probably fit best in Venom Grenade, since I am *NOT* giving up my extra Range frankenslotting in Heavy Burst for ANYTHING!

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Originally Posted by Flitbit I'm planning on working through the villain questlines with this character, so I really like how Soldiers are fun right out of the box so I won't be terribly impatient to level. I already dislike how fragile Widows feel in their early stages, so I may group more intensively with that one to speed past the awkward age and into the Fortunata goodness. Soldiers do not have this issue!

This was my experience too, back around Issue 17-18 or so. Soldiers are good out of the box starting EARLY and they just basically stay "good" and only get "better" as time (and enhancement slots) go on. Soldiers just "age" really well, in my experience ... if you've got the right build plan for them!

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Originally Posted by Flitbit My spouse's Soldier is around 20, is one of his "do all villain questline" characters because he's enjoying him so much, and has already acquired a Longbow-esque "deniable" outfit. He is opting for some melee in his build because he just likes whacking people upside the head, so he may end up "Bane-ier".

Smacking things around in melee may be "fun" but it tends to do unpleasant things to how I can deploy my extended cone range Heavy Burst against everyone's favorite targets ... Hordes O' Hostiles. I routinely see my Heavy Burst hitting more targets than my Web/Frag/Venom Grenades do, simply because of the shape of the AoEs involved.

And as I've mentioned before, my standard operating procedure is Web then Venom then Frag then Heavy Burst ... and if anything is still standing, use my Burst and Single Shot attacks until I can do another series of AoE attacks. It has a certain ... lawnmower-like ... appeal to me.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

Soo, quick pop in here with two quick questions.

1.) guessing the post on the latest page is the most recent version of the build? guessing since you are talking about slotting the ATO's, that when you get around to that we'll have some sort of update? I mean, venom grenade seems the best choice, as noted, aoe debuff into HUEG AOE DEBUFF, at very little cost.

2.)Any advice on incarnates, now that you've been one forever? I know it's kind of a personal choice thing, but.. i'd trust the judgement of the person playing the build for two years over my experience 1-50 when it comes to picking an alpha, for isntance.

That said, thoughts on the control hybrid? 100% chance to stun immob'd/terrified enemies on damaging attacks turns your WAWG -> attack chain into a passive aoe control chain... seems to have the most potential of all the hybrids.

Ugh forum ate my post. I'm not gonna type out that giant monstrosity again, so you get the abridged version: At 24 I picked all the crab attack powers instead of the solider ones, and I feel the worse for having done so.

The Targeted AoE powers are equivalent. The two ranged single target attacks are better from the solider pool, and I have taken both Heavy Burst and Suppression to have a full AoE attack chain. The Melee attacks on crab seem pointless.

Basically from where I'm standing none of the crab attacks aside from Suppression and Omega Manoeuvre have a reason for existing. This is disappointing because I so love the crab backpack and want to shoot things out of it, but feel like I'd have done better if I stuck with the Solider equivalents instead.

Am I missing something here?

It depends on what you "value" in your character. My Soldier/Crab uses an alternate build to do substantially the same things in either Huntsman mode (using Soldier primary and Bane secondary powers), or in Crab mode (using Crab primary and secondary powers) ... meaning I can switch back and forth as my whimsy takes me. The thing is, the Soldier is clearly faster both from a Global Recharge Bonus standpoint, but also in the animation times vs the Crab backpack attacks. My Soldier can fire off all SIX of my rifle attack powers in the time it takes the alternate build Crab to fire off FIVE backpack attacks. Basically, my Huntsman "feels" more active and responsive simply because the single target animations are faster than the alternative choices in Crab powers.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...