Ranged Fortunata build - looking for input..
By
Barbie_Ink,
Posted on: 2010-12-23 02:24 in Soldiers of Arachnos
Enhancing resistance in Indomitable Will isnt needed.
You want the purple Hold Set in Dominate not Total Domination. And possibly a centriole hami in Dominate as well.
ML is way overslotted. 3 Membranes is plenty. Also please don't be one of those forts that puts ML on auto on teams and fails to buff anyone else on the team with it. Put it on auto when you're solo if thats how you like it, but on a team putting that power on auto is a really bad idea.
If youre going to pick up the meds pool pick it up for Aid Self and slot it with heal. If you don't want or need Aid Self (and imo you don't, although your hp and regen is a bit on the low side) pick up leadership assault, double assault is awesome, or pick up boxing and tough, the S/L resistance is nice.
How do you have Block of Ice on a SoA? Either way you want Gloom from your Patron.
You want Subdue. Skip Mental Blast.
Build needs more procs. Explosive Strike in TK Blast. TotH in Subdue. Force Feedback in Psinado. Posi proc in Psy Scream. Apoc proc in subdue.
Teleport needs endredux if youre actually going to use that.
Aim needs at most 5 Adjusted Targetting, or you could even strip it down to 2 slots and use those slots else where.
What Alpha slot will you be going for?
I can't really give advice on a high end fortunata as my high end Widow is a night widow, her fortunata build is more mid range. Also, your idea of high end is clearly way more expensive than mine - I hardly ever bother with purples. However, a couple things immediately leap out when I look at your build:
1. Mids incorrectly shows the brute APP's as being available to VEATS and they do NOT get access to them, only to the patron pools, so you can't take block of ice and none of the patron pools for VEATS offer a hold.
2. You have WAY overslotted mind link - the last 3 membranes are SERIOUS overkill and are giving you almost nothing. The first 3 membranes in mind link will give you 76 second recharge and 15.6% def, adding in 3 more reduces the recharge by about 2.8s and increases the def by 0.9% - not worth 3 slots (or 3 membranes, which are pretty expensive these days). I would actually suggest going with 2 membranes and a common L50 def IO - that will give you an 82s recharge and capped def, which will make it perma.
3. Drop mental blast, pick up subdue and slot dominate for damage instead. Unlike the controller/dominator version, the widow version does really good damage and should be treated as a ranged blast that just happens to have a hold attached to it. The best single target ranged attack chain is TK blast -> dominate -> subdue with possibly gloom (from the Soul Mastery patron pool) thrown in if you really want to hit hard. Note that mental blast and TK blast do exactly the same damage with different secondary effects (-rech for MB, knockback for TK). I like TK blast because it is faster casting and will KB a boss, but YMMV.
As some food for thought, here is my fortunata build - I focused on softcapping without mind link and when mask presence is suppressed (which reduces its def to 3.4% the way I have it slotted) I am at about 47% melee, 46% ranged and 41% AoE def.
I went with dart burst and psychic scream as my regular AE attack chain because dart burst actually has slightly better DPS than the two mental AE attacks and its easier to line two cones up than one cone and one sphere, but that is really a personal preference more than anything else. No purples and the only really expensive IO's in the build are the LoTG +recharge, miracle and numina's unique:
Code:
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Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
Changed my build around based on input from you guys 
So I'm a recharge freak, so I've still tried to keep it fairly high.
Also, tried to get melee/ranged def to stay at close to max (Ranged more importantly than Melee) even when ML isn't on, will give me a lot of flexibility with buffing the team with it rather than using it for my personal use (assuming a 3.7% buff from suppressed Mask Presence at all times).
I am not very sure about procs; I'd like a lot of damage but it's as much of a priority on this guy as recharge - that helps both damage and holds. If could find a slot for them, I'd add the procs as suggested.
I _really want to take leadership pool, but my pools are all used up.
Speed: *need* it for Hasten
TP: for stealth/tp
Fly: For hover (my primary combat movement)
Healing: Without Aid Self, I would be lost (didn't realize I hadn't slotted it earlier). I tend to uh, rush into stuff and run out at how hp often
Modified build,
Code:
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Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
In your modified build you are at 4/5 lotg 7.5s -- Take out the Enzyme in Hover, move the slot to ML and put a lotg 7.5 in there.
Slot Gloom for damage, 4 Devastations works well.
Take out the Posi acc/dmg in Psychic Scream replace with a posi dmg proc.
Take out the Apoc: dmg in Subdue and put in an Apoc: proc
Take out 1 slot from Hasten and put in a TotH dmg proc in subdue.
Take out 1 slot from Recall friend and put a force feedback chance for +rchg in psynado.
Take the membrane out of mask presence and put in a 6th slot in TK Blast for an Explosive Strike dmg proc. Since you really will only need mask presence when you're stealthing stuff, since you can't crit with it.
Replace the rchg IO in Aid Other with a heal IO.
Not sure wat your plans for the build in regards to exemping are but you might want to look at the level you're taking powers. Such as taking travel type powers earlier. You don't really need to pick up aidother until just before you will be picking up aidself. Definitely want Mind Link asap at lvl 24. Gloom should be a lvl 41 pick. Having confuse asap is good also.
Also I didn't notice this earlier, but you don't have Psychic Wail? It is a crashless nuke. It is very worth it. I'd drop either psy scream for it and pop 5 Oblits or 5 Armaggedons in it.
Psi wail is also melee, a place I hate to be
Don't care about exemplaring, won't ever be doing mish's under 50 really.
I'll slot in the procs (also didn't realize my LOTG was 4/5).
Otherwise the build is good?
Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
Quote:
Well you did say in ur OP that you would go into melee for very short amounts of time. It takes very little time to jump in and nuke and jump out once every ~90 seconds and the pay offs are worth it. |
Originally Posted by slainsteel
Psi wail is also melee, a place I hate to be
Don't care about exemplaring, won't ever be doing mish's under 50 really. I'll slot in the procs (also didn't realize my LOTG was 4/5). Otherwise the build is good? |
Otherwise yeah, the build is good.
Well, I've been workign with the same requirements as you. I want Hover and Teleport and range if at all possible.
Here is my cheaper build(alignment merit funded) that should be a good guideline:
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Fortunata Training
Secondary Power Set: Fortunata Teamwork
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Fighting
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Mental Blast -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx:50(7), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(27), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(37)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(5), DefBuff-I:50(11)
Level 2: Subdue -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx:50(7), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(19), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(36)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(9), LkGmblr-Def:50(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(13)
Level 6: Combat Training: Offensive -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 8: Hover -- Winter-ResSlow:50(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(9), Frbd-Stlth:15(29), LkGmblr-Def:50(34), Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx:50(46), Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng:50(48)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(13), ImpArm-ResDam:40(40), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(40), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(43)
Level 12: Recall Friend -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 14: Teleport -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(A), Jnt-EndRdx:50(15), Jnt-EndRdx/Rng:50(15), Jnt-Rng:50(17)
Level 16: Dominate -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(17), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(19), Lock-Acc/Hold:50(34), Lock-Rchg/Hold:50(37)
Level 18: Fly -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 20: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(21), LkGmblr-Def:50(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(27)
Level 22: Foresight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(23), DefBuff-I:50(23), ImpArm-ResDam:40(29), ResDam-I:50(43), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(46)
Level 24: Psychic Scream -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(25), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(25), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(34), Posi-Dmg/Rng:50(37)
Level 26: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 28: Kick -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A)
Level 30: Tough -- Aegis-Psi/Status:25(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(31), ImpArm-ResDam:40(31), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(31), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(50), Aegis-ResDam:50(50)
Level 32: Weave -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx:40(A), GftotA-Def:40(33), GftotA-Def/Rchg:40(33), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(33)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Leadership -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 38: Confuse -- Mlais-Acc/EndRdx:50(A), Mlais-EndRdx/Conf:50(39), Mlais-Acc/Rchg:50(39), Mlais-Conf/Rng:50(39), Mlais-Acc/Conf/Rchg:50(40)
Level 41: Psionic Tornado -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(42), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Posi-Dmg/Rng:50(43)
Level 44: Psychic Wail -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Oblit-Dmg:50(45), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(45), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(46)
Level 47: Mind Link -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(48), HO:Membr(48)
Level 49: Aim -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I:50(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:20(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:30(5)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(3), EndMod-I:50(3)
------------
Code:
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This is my more expensive build because of purples.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Fortunata Training
Secondary Power Set: Fortunata Teamwork
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Fighting
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Mental Blast -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(50)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(5), DefBuff-I:50(7)
Level 2: Subdue -- Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(27), Apoc-Acc/Rchg:50(29), Apoc-Dmg:50(29), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg:50(34)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(7), LkGmblr-Def:50(9), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(9)
Level 6: Combat Training: Offensive -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 8: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(11), Frbd-Stlth:15(11), Winter-ResSlow:50(13), Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx:50(13), Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng:50(15)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), ImpArm-ResDam:40(19), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(19), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(21), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(21)
Level 12: Recall Friend -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 14: Teleport -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(A), Jnt-EndRdx/Rng:50(15), Jnt-EndRdx:50(17), Jnt-Rng:50(17)
Level 16: Dominate -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), UbrkCons-Hold:50(36), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg:50(37)
Level 18: Fly -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 20: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(37), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(37), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(39)
Level 22: Foresight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(23), DefBuff-I:50(23), ImpArm-ResDam:40(25), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(25), ResDam-I:50(27)
Level 24: Psychic Scream -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Posi-Dmg/Rng:50(45)
Level 26: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 28: Kick -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A)
Level 30: Tough -- Aegis-Psi/Status:25(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(31), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(31), ImpArm-ResDam:40(31), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(33), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(33)
Level 32: Weave -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx:40(A), GftotA-Def:40(33), GftotA-Def/Rchg:40(34), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(34)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Leadership -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 38: Confuse -- CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg:50(A), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx:50(39), CoPers-Conf:50(39), CoPers-Acc/Rchg:50(40), CoPers-Conf%:50(50)
Level 41: Psionic Tornado -- Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(42), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg:50(42), Ragnrk-Dmg:50(43), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg:50(43)
Level 44: Psychic Wail -- Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg:50(46), Armgdn-Dmg:50(46), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg:50(48)
Level 47: Mind Link -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(48), HO:Membr(48)
Level 49: Aim -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I:50(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:20(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:30(5)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(3), EndMod-I:50(3)
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Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1616;769;1538;HEX;| |78DAA594EB4E135110C7CF76B796DE0B6DA1B45028B4B4DC4A2B60B8189140518C5| |58C158C12CA0636B0B1EE926D09FACD073031DE12BFE007AF0FE02DD147F119BCBC| |80A973668E05ED479BF4FFDBFD9F39B333D33D2DDE59F430766F8E49A1858A5AAD9| |6E72D756BD730ABE5357DDB3C705C526BFB965A610EC65802AD72C95275433776B2| |4BA655DB37D49ADAB062254DBD7D605AB78EAF09AB75D9D8D52CCDA865FF5CB8574| |CB3925DAAE83BBBB536BC2E69156D0F76AA35DD34BCB4CC572135DD15B56D7D4B37| |B450614FDFCAAE16E64BE5E27EB9A8566B9A753702354EC2F70174449FBAC25E02F| |22CFD8AF01631F81A917F83587001240CB7B1B0C42D25843811C780871EB10EF9A4| |AC8D5BD11CA26B8C3082488C220A904FA67CB21CA04494B685D2B604118B1067A73| |8668FE2939C306607597607ED71D11ED72F808F796232BFF34411BE4EC4122472D2| |2EC599848B346BCB103A00DD2C94C6BBD00022050F71533BCC9DA0B980E5254BF67| |EC52E7C1E44C04D70219EC024FC6212FE43DCDAFF82F09CB08871C902C20D695BC5| |935AE94967A0D6A0184E908693A40E93D4EF000D6719E2C26212615A69A7B876FA5| |122D4612485888EA0F918EAEB10F575BC436BE83D62E413E103E123E21C3CA453FC| |029D549F0D4A8E8992639B68C960758B52BA27E122C2E2392C254EC38E5329BD34E| |55E9AB202BB7A44A33D0AADB42012768203711E6AE81335F4510D67C14A892E521B| |38C9814DC23A225D46E455C453683A23C23313680D9E224C22864E12C611CF207C5| |8840FCFA0357A9A304B98428C4D23E6A0982C85DBB23300456663FFF011A4CC518C| |941BA6B345E8521A4791317AC72F1EB7A8E115A571C098441B2F2B8D43F95F9FCF8| |DFF02E7157ECEAF72B9C6658DCB752E37B8DCE4B2CE65834B994BFD4B63B77F8A17| |34CD6586CB2C977000E43E8F74F003E5E6E2E1E2E5E2E3E2E712E012E412E572C8A| |5EE84CD32355DFF063924F11248FD3880EFC7AD0C5A3F8E2C49BA001741A6ACE201| |FF79B462937AE945FE0BB9E6A10F355BF9666BA2D91A6FB68EE6FD1B51F905E6| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Both this build and the one in my post above will give you easily soft-capped defense to all positions, lots of ranged and AoE damage, stealth in Mask Presence(much better than the concealment pool), Aim and Mind Link up fairly often and Hover/Flight.
Edit:
You'll also have very high psionic resistance and respectable smashing/lethal resistance as well.
Edit2: A Cardiac Core Paragon(when more alpha boosts are unlocked) would be the most benefit to these two builds to eliminate any possible endurance issues, give your attacks a nice range boost and give you even more resistance to mitigate any attacks that happen to get through your hover-blasting high defense.
(Though you could likely stand in melee if you want with these builds just fine, ranged damage is just usually less punishing.)
I've actually taken a fairly poorly slotted prototype of this build at level 29 and done very well, especially against enemies like Protean or anyone else with a psi hole or melee emphasis without a way to fly to close the gap.
Edit 3:
You get scaling resistance from Foresight and Combat Training: Defensive at 0.4%(last I checked) per percentage point below 75% health. Lower health doesn't necessarily mean death. Burst damage is the only thing to fear. Those 2 powers end up giving you just over 60% resistance when a hair from death, but even at 32.5% of max hp you will have 30% more resistance to all.
I find Hover-blasting easier to line up cones for melee enemies as well if you can hover a ways above them as they pile up directly below. You can't get ranged enemies to bunch up for AoEs anyway.
You could sacrifice Fly(rely on Hover/TP) and Confuse from my builds to fit in Aid Self and enhance it with some modification and no real loss of defense, resistance or damage.
Quote:
I disagree. Everyone on a team should already be well enough slotted to not need the buffs from Mind Link, especially when not every team has it available, that you can put it on auto for yourself.|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Also please don't be one of those forts that puts ML on auto on teams and fails to buff anyone else on the team with it. Put it on auto when you're solo if thats how you like it, but on a team putting that power on auto is a really bad idea.
|
It is common courtesy to try to hit others with the buff, but it isn't necessary.
It has also been proven time and time again that people really do not pay attention or even care about team buffs most of the time. I've seen people run away from Force Fields before they could be buffed despite the noise and others waiting patiently. A lot of people ignore the calls to "gather for AM" or any other AoE buff as well.
I think the general mindset, which isn't wrong, is "it's a click buff that isn't up all the time so it doesn't matter because I can survive well enough whether it is up or not".
I never plan my builds around other characters because they are never guaranteed to have the buffs I am expecting or even be the correct archetype to have a chance to have the buffs.
Just build to maximize your effectiveness and help out the team as much as you can without sacrificing anything that would benefit you a lot, unless you're specifically always going to team and want to go full support.
Edit:
I don't go for procs most of the time as well. I like reliability rather than random chance and something that isn't going to be up much anyway.
I didn't look at your build but if you want an all-range Fortunata, you should have Gloom in your attack chain. It really makes a huge difference for Fort's dps. Slot Dominate for more +damage than +hold. Your attack chain should only be Dominate, Gloom and Subdue.
My first all-ranged took Muscular alpha thinking that I really just need more damage as Fort. I already have excellent defense, mez protection and range advantage. Well, that didn't work out too well because a full Thunder Strike set already pushed your damage close to 100% and after the bypass bonus, my Gloom's damage is only increased by about 10-12.
Then I changed my build and took even more defensive powers like Tough, Weave and one more Maneuver. I am carrying 8 toggles and several of them are heavy toggles. Well, even with Numina and Miracle and three accolades, I just can't last the fight long enough so I took Cardiac alpha and man, it is amazing!!!! So now, instead of carrying some blues and purples, I only carry reds for more damage when I need to. I usually save about 3 reds for AV fights. Tough does make a pretty noticeable difference during Battle Maiden fight because I no longer die in one hit if I get hit by her melee attack. :P Resistance works better with scaling defense in Foresight.
I am telling you, an all-ranged Fortunata with double assault and set bonuses is one of the best builds in the game! I just got my 2nd tier in Cardiac and I took +20% range. I can only safely kill pylon in Apex without getting aggro. :P
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
So I am a bit confused by the lack of hasten in several of the builds given here; doesn't the lack of recharge hit your DPS?
I have 197% on my fire/rad corr and I still feel the need for more recharge - ideally, I want blaze to come up over and over and over again
Also regarding the team buff things, I do agree with that to an extent; generally people don't care too much for PBAoE buffs and run ahead - till they are about to have a really hard AV, in which case they tend to stick around Either way, I'd like to buff people but it's not a major priority.
Also, Dominate is the Fort's only major hold - if I slot that for damage, doesn't that mean that her hold ability is kinda, uh, gimped?
Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
Dominate is a Mag 3, 16sec Hold that recharges at a base of 8 seconds and does 77.17 damage on a level 50, unslotted.
With even a moderate amount of global recharge and some slotting, it's up every 4 seconds. So it takes you about 4 to 6 seconds to apply a Mag 6 hold to something for ~12 seconds. It doesn't really require any Hold enhancement.
On the damage front, max damage slotting can get it up to 150 damage, and the two purple procs it'll take (Unbreakable Constraint chance for smashing, Apoc chance for neg) bump that up to 221 on average. That's a pretty solid ST attack.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by slainsteel
So I am a bit confused by the lack of hasten in several of the builds given here; doesn't the lack of recharge hit your DPS?
I have 197% on my fire/rad corr and I still feel the need for more recharge - ideally, I want blaze to come up over and over and over again Also regarding the team buff things, I do agree with that to an extent; generally people don't care too much for PBAoE buffs and run ahead - till they are about to have a really hard AV, in which case they tend to stick around Either way, I'd like to buff people but it's not a major priority.Also, Dominate is the Fort's only major hold - if I slot that for damage, doesn't that mean that her hold ability is kinda, uh, gimped? |
Recharge isn't everything. More is better, but not at the expense of other important things.
I just felt it wasn't worth the sacrifices necessary to take and slot Hasten in my builds above. It's also a pain to have to manage a long recharge short duration click since you can't put more than one on auto.
You also have to realize that you have locked yourself into flight, teleport and medicine as pool choices. Hasten will fill your last available pool. It all depends on what you want most and are willing to sacrifice.
I just don't think Hasten is really worth it especially when you are using IOs heavily. It's not necessary.
DPS only really suffers that much, if fully enhanced, when you have holes in your attack chain or use powers that do no damage. Aim should help keep your damage high even without Hasten. Aim recharges in 33 seconds for the builds I posted above without Hasten and lasts 10 seconds so it is definitely up very often.
My builds above actually enhance both the damage and hold duration of dominate fairly well.
Quote:
The longer you can make Dominate last the less you have to refresh it and the greater the chance to stack past mez protection.|
Originally Posted by Barbie_Ink
Dominate is a Mag 3, 16sec Hold that recharges at a base of 8 seconds and does 77.17 damage on a level 50, unslotted.
With even a moderate amount of global recharge and some slotting, it's up every 4 seconds. So it takes you about 4 to 6 seconds to apply a Mag 6 hold to something for ~12 seconds. It doesn't really require any Hold enhancement. |
You can get it up to 150 damage and make it last pretty long with decent slotting such as my builds above. It's not hard to do both with IOs.
Hold is a pretty powerful control too.
Quote:
1) People who softcap S/L will appreciate the +def to positionals (great for dodging mezzes and debuffs, helping prevent cascading defense failure), People who are softcapped to range will get melee and aoe protection and def debuff protection by raising them over the soft cap. People who are soft capped to all positions get that buffer against def debuffs as well as psionic protection. That said not everyone is soft capped, and those who aren't will love having you around if you hit them with it.|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
I disagree. Everyone on a team should already be well enough slotted to not need the buffs from Mind Link, especially when not every team has it available, that you can put it on auto for yourself.
It is common courtesy to try to hit others with the buff, but it isn't necessary. It has also been proven time and time again that people really do not pay attention or even care about team buffs most of the time. I've seen people run away from Force Fields before they could be buffed despite the noise and others waiting patiently. A lot of people ignore the calls to "gather for AM" or any other AoE buff as well. I think the general mindset, which isn't wrong, is "it's a click buff that isn't up all the time so it doesn't matter because I can survive well enough whether it is up or not". I never plan my builds around other characters because they are never guaranteed to have the buffs I am expecting or even be the correct archetype to have a chance to have the buffs. Just build to maximize your effectiveness and help out the team as much as you can without sacrificing anything that would benefit you a lot, unless you're specifically always going to team and want to go full support. Edit: I don't go for procs most of the time as well. I like reliability rather than random chance and something that isn't going to be up much anyway. |
2) Not being softcapped doesnt mean your build is defective or that you rely on other people, unless you actually do.
3) You're right its not 'necessary' to hit everyone with ML, but there isnt much reason not to when it so easy to hit multiple people with it.
4) You don't have to gather everyone on the team / use a macro to buff multiple people with powers like AM/RA/ML it is not hard to notice when people are bunched up to fire it off.
5) "I think the general mindset, which isn't wrong, is "it's a click buff that isn't up all the time so it doesn't matter because I can survive well enough whether it is up or not"." I LOL'ed. Is this Je Saist's 2nd account? Like really? When you are solo or even on a team and personally don't need the +def, I can almost guarantee you at least one other person could use more defense unless you've got a few colds on the team.
6) "Maximizing your effectiveness" means hitting more than just your self with ML.
7) a 33% chance for 107 damage is not unreliable and it is significantly better than slotting the single stat IO in purple sets. It equates to 35 extra average damage on your attacks, that is huge! Even the non purple procs average out to about 14 extra dmg on your attacks, not bad at all. Forcefeedback in an aoe can average out to an extra 5-10% global recharge if you are constantly using the power, thats great with just one slot. On forts procs are great: fast animating, quick recharging attacks are best for procs and thats exactly what forts have. On top of that Fort base damage is not that high, which makes the addition of procs very noticeable in overall dps.
Quote:
There are certain things where having a strong ST Hold, ie lgtfs or hami raids, or anywhere else where you can help stack mag on an AV with other trollers/doms on the team is really nice. That isn't saying it needs to be maxed out for hold but it certainly does help.|
Originally Posted by Barbie_Ink
Dominate is a Mag 3, 16sec Hold that recharges at a base of 8 seconds and does 77.17 damage on a level 50, unslotted.
With even a moderate amount of global recharge and some slotting, it's up every 4 seconds. So it takes you about 4 to 6 seconds to apply a Mag 6 hold to something for ~12 seconds. It doesn't really require any Hold enhancement. On the damage front, max damage slotting can get it up to 150 damage, and the two purple procs it'll take (Unbreakable Constraint chance for smashing, Apoc chance for neg) bump that up to 221 on average. That's a pretty solid ST attack. |
There's alot of good ways to slot the power, I don't think there really is a wrong way.
4 Devastations + 2 Unbreakable Constraints(including proc) is good for having both hold and damage and some nice set bonuses.
5 Decimations + Unbreakable Constraint Proc is good for damage with the recharge set bonus.
5 Unbreakable Constraints + a centriole is nice if you want the set bonuses from the purple hold set and still have some damage in the power.
Definitely other ways too.
Ideally your Apoc proc would be in another attack (Subdue).
Try this for size for Ranged Hold powers which also do Damage:
Dominate
- (A) HamiO: Peroxisome Exposure (+2 Dam/Mez)
- HamiO: Peroxisome Exposure (+2 Dam/Mez)
- Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 31
- Devastation - Chance of Hold: Level 30
- Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 31
- Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold: Level 30
- Accuracy: 30.80%
- Damage: 86.79% (88.66% pre-ED)
- Endurance Reduction: 30.80%
- Recharge Reduction: 30.80%
- Hold Duration: 86.79% (88.66% pre-ED)
(Dominate)
- 12% (0.51 HP/sec) Regeneration
(Dominate)
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
I'm really hard pressed to find anything better than this combo for Ranged Hold+Damage powers ... particularly since it manages to squeeze (effectively) 7 slots worth of enhancements out of 4 slots, and then stacks two (very useful!) procs in on top of that ...
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Very nice, Red.
Quote:
My point was that there is usually enough people on the team and enough variety of buffs, especially with the leadership pool being more common and stacking, that Mind Link will not be missed, especially since Mind Link is not always up.|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
5) "I think the general mindset, which isn't wrong, is "it's a click buff that isn't up all the time so it doesn't matter because I can survive well enough whether it is up or not"." I LOL'ed. Is this Je Saist's 2nd account? Like really? When you are solo or even on a team and personally don't need the +def, I can almost guarantee you at least one other person could use more defense unless you've got a few colds on the team.
|
People should be decently slotted so that they can solo which means grouping should be even easier, except for the most difficult content or weakest characters or dumbest groups.
I personally always try to play as much as possible without using temporary powers or even inspirations. I like to be good enough to not need them and I believe it makes me a better player because of it.
Take the tier 9 powers for many tank sets that crash after a short time. Those aren't always up and the crash is many times too dangerous so the tank has to rely on all his other powers most of the time. Why bother with the tier 9 then if you're not going to use it?
As for procs, I don't ever trust the RNG. Yes, those sound like fairly good average additional damage numbers, but you can't count on them and they aren't spread out like that anyway. They don't trigger at all if you miss, they could be wasted on an enemy that is already dead before your power hits and other things.
I just don't feel they are worth the slot if I have other powers that can benefit from the slot for an always on bonus.
Yes, I play conservatively. I like to be reliable and consistent even when I'm pushing limits. I don't settle for "I can win sometimes" when I could have "I win every time".
So thinking about this a bit and getting a really good reference build from a alliance board, I came up with this build.
.) I have still slotted in holds in Dominate since I really want to have a really powerful hold for LGTF, Hami, STF/LRSF AV's, etc.
.) The aim with defense is to have melee and range at the soft-cap with mind-link is not on; that way I can use mind-link when going into big battles and buff myself and team mates, otherwise I'm good with non-ML defense [I am assuming a suppressed Mask Presence ~3.7%def to all]
.) I added in poison dart to add another DPS power; since the build is at over 200% recharge, I can afford to have a longer attack chain, having another DPS power should help my DPS to go higher than what it would have been with just Subdue->Dominate->Gloom; now I can do Subdue->TK Blast->PDart->Gloom (throw in dominate if I want to, it still has decent damage)
.) I understand procs really add to damage, but I subscribe to the entire "not reliably - since they can waste chances on already dead enemies, misses, etc", so I am sticking to using procs ONLY when I have extra slots, which I don't have too many off :-\
.) I have with a heavy heart let go of aid self and taken leadership instead; I may respec this later in case I find that I am needing to guzzle down greens
Here's the build again, please let me know your opinions
Code:
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Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
Quote:
Your build has a lot of problems. Just go with one of our builds above and modify it more to your tastes. The only things that should be changed, from builds like mine, are the attacks and controls and their slotting. All the defenses and utility powers are perfectly slotted in my builds(barring slight differences).|
Originally Posted by slainsteel
So thinking about this a bit and getting a really good reference build from a alliance board, I came up with this build.
|
Now the critique:
1) Teleport is WAY underslotted. Look at my build above for the proper way to slot it. It is an endurance hog so endurance is top priority.
2) Mind Link is overslotted. Just put a few Hami-Os in there and be done with it. Membrane Exposure x 3.
3) Aim is WAY overslotted. 2 recharge reduction is all that should be in Aim. You have access to Combat Training: Offensive and Tactical Training: Leadership(of which you should at least take one of if not both, emphasizing the leadership toggle above the auto) which will cover your to-hit buffs.
4) Use the Luck of the Gambler: Recharge global at maximum level because it also enhances defense based on its level. That will save you slots trying to boost defense.
5) Indomitable Will is a bit under-slotted. It could use at least a generic endurance reduction IO. You will be running lots of toggles and attacking a lot.
6) You do not need the Leadership pool, but definitely not Maneuvers from it if anything. Assault is a possible choice from that, but you can easily soft-cap defense without Maneuvers thus saving a lot of endurance per second from that toggle.
7) Take Mask Presence earlier. It is very useful as soon as you can get it because of the stealth and defense it provides.
8) Leave Vengeance until last if you take it at all. People should not be dying often, but definitely not often enough to get that much benefit out of Vengeance. Also, you can't count on it because somebody has to die then not hosp or rez before you use it.
9) Dominate could be better slotted for more damage and about the same hold duration. Look to other slotting examples in this thread for better ways to slot it.
10) Aura of Confusion is overslotted and not very useful. Yes, you can confuse a lot of minions and lieutenants, but it won't work on bosses and those piddly guys die fast to AoE anyway. I would personally not take this power.
11) Total Domination is worthless. It does not last long enough to be worth it. An 18 second hold on a 68 second recharge is really poor. Controllers and dominators skip their own AoE holds often because they are just not efficient or recharged often enough.
12) Health is WAYYYYY overslotted. All you need are the 2 uniques from Miracle and Numina's Convalescence along with a "Heal" only set IO from those sets for the bonus, meaning 4 slots total at most. You can get by with just the uniques though.
Seriously, look at my two buiilds and compare the numbers they provide to the numbers of your build. They are a lot better with a lot more room to switch out powers and slot them.
No offense but, your build makes a lot of obvious mistakes that I just can't imagine anyone making after getting help and making a 3rd draft.
Quote:
You are wrong.|
Originally Posted by slainsteel
I added in poison dart to add another DPS power; since the build is at over 200% recharge, I can afford to have a longer attack chain, having another DPS power should help my DPS to go higher than what it would have been with just Subdue->Dominate->Gloom
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More recharge reduction allows you to have a "shorter" attack chain.
You lose DPS if you have more than one power recharged and choose to use the weaker one.
There is a reason people keep telling you that Subdue>Dominate>Gloom is all you need. It is ALL YOU NEED.
You can get Aid Self back in if you ditch Maneuvers(the leadership pool) and ditch Total Domination. Those are unnecessary and not very helpful as I said above.
By the way, your build is NOT soft-capped to defense.
My builds are soft-capped to all positions easily by level 40 without Mind Link, but your build is lacking AoE defense and really shouldn't be when you took more defense buffing powers than I did.
Completely remake your build from scratch. Use our builds as guides.
If you're primarily a solo player, most of what T_I's said is indisputably true.
If you're building for a more team friendly build, not always so much, in particular 6, 10, and 11.
6) You don't _need_ the Leadership pool, I agree with T_I there. But if you want a team-oriented build, double stacking leadership buffs isn't a terrible idea. You can still softcap yourself, and being able to give your team an extra 5% or so defense can be useful. A Widow with both Maneuvers and Mind Link is giving about 28% to their team, and that's not so shabby. I didn't take Leadership on my Fort, but only so I could make room for powers like Aura of Confusion and Total Domination. 
10) Aura of Confusion is an awesome power, especially if you routinely team with anybody else with a confuse power. Like, say, another Widow with Aura of Confusion. I've seen a couple of Fortunatas completely wreck entire herds of bosses (since yes, the minions and lts die pretty quickly) like that. Or Plant Control, or Mind Control, or Illusion Control, or /Nin stalkers, or... right, so it comes up often enough that if you want a confuse power, it's not a waste of a pick. It might not be the most optimal choice, but that's a far cry from it being a bad one.
11) Being able to slam a mag 6 - 10 hold down (variable from lockdown procs) with two clicks can be a lifesaver vs some bosses, or when in a tight spot. Sure, if you're softcapped (and you should be), your tight spots are likely few and far between. But calling the power worthless is more indicative of T_I's pov on how to play the game than the power's actual utility. My Widow has Total Domination (6 slotted with Lockdown) and basically wrecks anything up to +3/x8 content (+4 is do-able, it just takes longer) at a decent clip, with TD seeing not infrequent use, even if it's not every spawn or even every other.
My point is that while T_I makes it out like there are only a couple very narrowly acceptable ways to build a Widow, it's not quite as cut and dried as that. Hell, my widow wasn't even softcapped outside of Mind Link for the longest time, but I had Mindlink within a couple of seconds of being perma so it didn't really matter. Now, post-Incarnate stuff, I'm both softcapped out of ML _and_ have perma-ML, but I'm always tinkering.
My first time with a SoA; I had a few requirements
Also looking for Alpha slotting recommendations.
.) Need Hover for easy combat movement
.) Need Stealth/TP
.) Want to get into melee range only for very short periods of time and only when needed
I have a decked out set of 50's and cost is no object; I don't care if the build costs 20bil, hence the large number of purples. Only thing I skipped on was a glad's armor, since I couldn't see much use for it considering the already ridiculous defense.
Also, I slotted MindLink with Hami's to reduce it's recharge since I want to leave ML on auto and hit Hasten manually when needed.
Since it's my first time with a SoA; I am sure this build is lacking a lot that people who actually play SoA's could tell me
So here's the build
Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense