Dark Armor Taunt and Stealth Questions


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

First, i'd like to thank Twilight Snow for her helpful comments on my last post (DB/DA), didnt want to bump the thread because ive moved on to a really outstanding SS/DA brute (Thank You inherent Stamina!).

Second, I was hoping someone could enlighten me on whether DA has a taunt aura and if there is anyway to use the defense and immobilize prot. offered by Cload of Darkness (CoD) while being "Tankish" in a group...i.e. can the stealth be "suppressed" somehow?

Thrid, why don't i see more DA Brutes? Is it just the end issues or is there a nasty suprise waiting for me later Currently at 24 with a Miracle +end, Perf Shift +end, Theft of Essence +end and of course the lovely inherent Stamina...feels good so far

Including my build if anyone has any suggestions
Thanks in Advance


Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.90
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Simon Magus: Level 50 Science Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(15), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(15)
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- RctvArm-EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), S'fstPrt-ResKB(25)
Level 2: Haymaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(9), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Murky Cloud -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(5), RctvArm-ResDam(5), RctvArm-EndRdx(42), S'fstPrt-ResKB(50)
Level 6: Air Superiority -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(40), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(42)
Level 8: Knockout Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(39), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(39)
Level 10: Obsidian Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctvArm-EndRdx(23), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(36), RctvArm-ResDam(36)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I(A)
Level 16: Dark Regeneration -- Nictus-Acc/Heal(A), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(27), Theft-Heal/Rchg(29), Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Theft-+End%(36)
Level 18: Rage -- Rec'dRet-Pcptn(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(19), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(19), GSFC-Build%(21), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(21), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(27)
Level 20: Taunt -- Zinger-Dam%(A)
Level 22: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResKB(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(25), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(43), ResDam-I(45)
Level 26: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 28: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 30: Cloak of Darkness -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(43), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 32: Foot Stomp -- Oblit-%Dam(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Oppressive Gloom -- Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(A), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(45), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(48)
Level 38: Cloak of Fear -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(45), Abys-EndRdx/Fear(46), Abys-Dam%(46), Abys-Acc/EndRdx(46)
Level 41: Superior Conditioning -- P'Shift-End%(A)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-End%(A)
Level 47: Laser Beam Eyes -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), Dev'n-Hold%(48), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Soul Transfer -- P'Shift-End%(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Dmg-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(42), Mrcl-Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(A), P'Shift-EndMod(33), P'Shift-End%(48)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

  • 3% DamageBuff(Smashing)
  • 3% DamageBuff(Lethal)
  • 3% DamageBuff(Fire)
  • 3% DamageBuff(Cold)
  • 3% DamageBuff(Energy)
  • 3% DamageBuff(Negative)
  • 3% DamageBuff(Toxic)
  • 3% DamageBuff(Psionic)
  • 25.5% Defense(Smashing)
  • 25.5% Defense(Lethal)
  • 3% Defense(Fire)
  • 3% Defense(Cold)
  • 6.75% Defense(Energy)
  • 6.75% Defense(Negative)
  • 3% Defense(Psionic)
  • 17.06% Defense(Melee)
  • 4.875% Defense(Ranged)
  • 3% Defense(AoE)
  • 1.8% Max End
  • 27% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 2.75% Enhancement(Terrorized)
  • 27.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 10% FlySpeed
  • 286.73 HP (19.13%) HitPoints
  • 10% JumpHeight
  • 10% JumpSpeed
  • Knockback (Mag -12)
  • Knockup (Mag -12)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 14.3%
  • MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
  • 20% Perception
  • 6.5% (0.109 End/sec) Recovery
  • 86% (5.382 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 10% RunSpeed



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Posted

It's suppressed when you attack. Go take a look at Dechs Kaison's Dark Armor Sucks guide.

Long story short, Death Shroud is your taunt aura. It has a taunt component. You can hold aggro just fine on a Dark Armor Brute so long as you have some accuracy from either set bonuses or slotted in to Death Shroud itself. I've never had Cloak of Darkness affect my ability to hold and maintain aggro. Just smash the hell out of everything and keep Death Shroud pumping.

If you want more to read, check out my guide (signature) as well.


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

Posted

[Death Shroud] would be the damage/taunt aura on Dark Armor.

End is the traditional bugaboo for Dark Armor, regardless of AT, but as you point out IOs offer a range of solutions.

[Cloak of Darkness] does offer some stealth, but in my experience as a Dark/ tank holding aggro with CoD running is a non-issue.

On Brutes more specifically, the normal avoidance is that [Cloak of Fear] and [Oppresive Gloom] both offer mitigation that hurts Fury by limiting attacks against you.


City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.

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Posted

Will review the guides tonight, many thanks! This is good news, added my build to the post before i saw these responses.

I will have to consider working Death Shroud in.....


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkadian_NA View Post
First, i'd like to thank Twilight Snow for her helpful comments on my last post (DB/DA), didnt want to bump the thread because ive moved on to a really outstanding SS/DA brute (Thank You inherent Stamina!).

Second, I was hoping someone could enlighten me on whether DA has a taunt aura
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Dark_Armor#Death_Shroud

Quote:
and if there is anyway to use the defense and immobilize prot. offered by Cload of Darkness (CoD) while being "Tankish" in a group...i.e. can the stealth be "suppressed" somehow?
Not really. Unlike other stealths, Cloak of Darkness doesn't turn off when taking damage.




Quote:
Thrid, why don't i see more DA Brutes? Is it just the end issues
This one major problem, yes.

Quote:
or is there a nasty suprise waiting for me later Currently at 24 with a Miracle +end, Perf Shift +end, Theft of Essence +end and of course the lovely inherent Stamina...feels good so far
You've got no idea...

For starters, Dark Armor is a purely resistance set. Unless you spend a significant amount of change on IO's, this means every single attack will be hitting you.

You only have scrapper level resists.

Oh, and Dark Armor's resists are low to begin with. All said and done, if you cap all of your resistances into ED, you'll only be pushing ~53% resistance to smashing / lethal damage, ~47.5% to negative engery, ~35.7 to fire and cold, ~23.8% to energy and toxic, and ~60% to Psionic.

On top of that, you have a lower base health as a brute, and even if you work away at the hp caps, you'll still struggle to break into the ~1900 / ~2000 hp mark even with accolades.

Then there's your upper armors that you don't have yet. Cloak of fear, for example, yanks down .52 end per second unslotted. That's more than running both Dark Embrace and Murky Cloud, or the same as another Death Shroud.

Oppressive Gloom doesn't use much endurance, that isn't it's problem. The health drain isn't an issue either. There is a problem though, and it is a problem that is shared with Cloak of Fear.

Let me demonstrate by turning OG on in the middle of that freakshow mob.



Notice... anything peculiar about the Freakshow I have targeted. Say, maybe where he is in relation to me?

Oh yeah, he's way outside melee range. He's way outside taunt range. When that stun wears off and I've got a team-mate around, and I'm pushing a perception debuff on myself and my team-mate is not, what exactly do you think is going to happen?

If you thought... he's going to wake up and fire on my team-mate... you win the gold star.

The fear cloak is actually worse, and is just as likely to send enemies screaming off down the map in terror as it is to force them to stand still.

Then there's the problem with both auras that they pretty much only work on minions and some lewies... So unless you've got an attack with a stun or fear component, you probably aren't going to be able to mez out that boss or ebby that's ripping away at your spinal cord like a terrier chewing on a bone.

* * *

So, to recap.
  • You've got smashing / lethal resists that are pretty much on par with those all other archtypes could get in their Epic Pools.
  • You use up endurance like it was a chew toy just on aura's, neverminding the 17end Dark Regeneration will chow through if you've got it capped into ED on end reduction
  • You've got not-so-great attack mitigation that gets you out of a fight with minions, but will leave your team-mates hosed when those minions de-mez, and won't do anything against harder targets.
Does that answer the question on why you don't see more dark armors floating around?

* * *

Now, while all of these factors make Dark Armor a complete and total waste as a tanking set... it is actually a very good set for Non-Tanky Behavior.
  • That stealth will buy you a little bit more time to get into mobs and set-up to attack.
  • That stun or that fear aura will keep the minions off your back.
  • That healing will give you a chance to recover back to full health, and on a brute, you'll be pushing high levels of fury at that point. Land a couple of massive attacks, and if the enemy isn't dead, back off.
Something you have to remember is that the Dark Armor set is pretty much what give rise to the Stalker Archtype. The set is really best for hit and run tactics. It is not designed to sit in a fight and draw aggro.

If you want a tanky brute, you'll need to pick a different armor set.


 

Posted

Okay, let me clear up some possible misconceptions about Stealth.

Stealth is NOT an anti-Taunt. That's Placate. Stealth does nothing to remove the aggro you already have. This is an issue for Stalkers, they are unable to use their stealth to avoid ambushes because the foes are already aggroed on them. Once a foe has aggro, it sees right through Stealth and heads right for you, attacking you even if it can't "see" you.

What Stealth does do is it makes it harder for foes to aggro on you for the first time. As long as you are outside of your foe's visibility range, it will not see you and aggro on you. If you attack that foe, or any other foe that is "linked" in the same spawn, then the foe will aggro on you normally. So basically, what Stealth allows you to do is get in position for your alpha strike, without drawing any aggro prior to your attack.

In a team where other players may be itching to start attacking, this mechanic is important to understand. If you want your Brute to grab aggro, it should be understood that you should be the one to go in first. In this case, it's doubly important that everyone wait until you have moved into the spawn and begun attacking before anyone else attacks. If they attack before you can begin attacking, most of the foes will not have seen you yet, and will attack your allies instead.

This is the case with any Brute, though, IMHO if any teammate is so impatient that he cannot wait for the Brute to grab aggro, then he should be prepared to deal with the aggro himself. And any Brute will have better hold of the aggro if he is given a few seconds to attack anyway. So in normal gameplay, whether or not you are stealthed should have no real effect. You will hold aggro while in combat just like always, and will not lose any of it because of your Stealth.

Now, there are a couple of exceptions. One is that while you are stealthed, you will draw less adds from other spawns standing nearby. If your allies move in behind you to fight the original spawn, the second spawn may add on them. You may have to react quickly, or already anticipate having to go herd the second spawn, in order to properly tank it. OTOH, you're a Brute, not a Tanker, and handling adds may not be your first priority. Hopefully someone else in the team will be aware of the risk and be ready to deal with the add.

The other situation, it isn't really an issue, really, is that if you stay out of visibility range of a foe long enough, eventually it will lose aggro on you. This is something I do with all ATs all the time, if I'm overwhelmed, I run, while keeping an eye on the foe so I can see the moment he stops and gives up. If you're stealthed, the foe should give up sooner, since you're so far out of his visibility range. OTOH, you should probably not be running away in the middle of a fight, and you shouldn't lose aggro in this way if you're just like on the other side of the room or something. This is just a point that can help you if you're soloing.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
If you want a tanky brute, you'll need to pick a different armor set.
Umm, no, only if you build it badly. Most sets aren't going to be 'tanky' without some investment. DA can be really strong if you build it right.


[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Does that answer the question on why you don't see more dark armors floating around?
I will say that this is probably why Cloak of Fear and Oppressive Gloom don't have a Taunt Aura on Brutes. (Or perhaps, why they DO on Tankers) These are not really powers that are meant to be used while tanking. Yes, they provide lots of mitigation, but the penalties with using them make them more situational or pseudo-click powers that you would turn off and on to "pulse" the control effect.

Dark Armor's primary mitigation is its heal. You don't want foes wandering off stunned away from you for that very reason, not just because they will start attacking allies. Although that's certainly a big part of it.

Unfortunately, my experience with the set is as a Tanker, so I can only go from what I have heard from Brutes, but I've noticed my Tanker seemed kind of fragile without Dark Regeneration, too. I would say it is as important to Dark as Invincibility is to Invulnerability. (And like that power and RttC, it is scaling)

I'll also add that it's got nothing to do with perception. As I said, once you have aggro, stealth cannot cause you to LOSE aggro. What has happened is because you are no longer taunting that foe, because it is out of your taunt radius, your ally has drawn more aggro. Your own aggro has degraded, just as it would with any Brute, and your ally has managed to pull aggro off of you because he's able to build up more. (Twice as much, to be precise)

This would happen even if you didn't have CoD up.


 

Posted

Oh god, here we go. *headdesk* Rebuttal time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post

Not really. Unlike other stealths, Cloak of Darkness doesn't turn off when taking damage.
While it doesn't turn off, the Stealth portion DOES suppress. Even with that screenie you posted, you'll notice your stealth radius is a flat zero. Cloak of Darkness is not a pure cloak, it is also your immobilize protection, a nice +Perception buff and a place to slot a -KB IO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
For starters, Dark Armor is a purely resistance set. Unless you spend a significant amount of change on IO's, this means every single attack will be hitting you.
You can also pair it with a mitigating primary. Energy Melee is a bit of an ugly duckling nowadays; paired with Mace/Dark/DB/SS/anything with mitigation, Dark will be significantly tougher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
You only have scrapper level resists.
Welcome to all Brute armors shared with Scrappers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Oh, and Dark Armor's resists are low to begin with. All said and done, if you cap all of your resistances into ED, you'll only be pushing ~53% resistance to smashing / lethal damage, ~47.5% to negative engery, ~35.7 to fire and cold, ~23.8% to energy and toxic, and ~60% to Psionic.
Wrong. Unless you're reading your numbers with Tough active, Dark Armor will cap out S/L/F/C at roughly 35%, Energy at 24% and Negative at about 45%, and Psi at 56%. Tough and Weave greatly help, along with set bonuses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
On top of that, you have a lower base health as a brute, and even if you work away at the hp caps, you'll still struggle to break into the ~1900 / ~2000 hp mark even with accolades.
Wrong. Scrappers have lower base HP than a Brute, unless you forgot to mention that you're comparing it to Tankers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Then there's your upper armors that you don't have yet. Cloak of fear, for example, yanks down .52 end per second unslotted. That's more than running both Dark Embrace and Murky Cloud, or the same as another Death Shroud.
Cloak of Fear is not an armor. It's an offensive PBAoE toggle. It provides no self buff, and is not a tool to be used with a Brute as it will hinder Fury.

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Oppressive Gloom Rant
Again, a Brute does not want OG. It hinders fury generation and is a general pain in the butt. Skip it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
So, to recap.
  • You've got smashing / lethal resists that are pretty much on par with those all other archtypes could get in their Epic Pools.
  • You use up endurance like it was a chew toy just on aura's, neverminding the 17end Dark Regeneration will chow through if you've got it capped into ED on end reduction
  • You've got not-so-great attack mitigation that gets you out of a fight with minions, but will leave your team-mates hosed when those minions de-mez, and won't do anything against harder targets.
Does that answer the question on why you don't see more dark armors floating around?
You're using a rather crappy primary when it comes to mitigation; single-target stuns do not mitigation make. You're also choosing to run CoF and OG, two auras that will seriously screw up your aggro, Fury, and experience with Dark Armor.



Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Now, while all of these factors make Dark Armor a complete and total waste as a tanking set
Stop right there and go talk to Dechs Kaison. Seriously. You're wrong. I can tank with the best of them on a sub-optimal build on my Dark/Dark Brute. I took on Holtz and the Honoree at the SAME TIME just last week and only needed to use Soul Transfer 3 times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Something you have to remember is that the Dark Armor set is pretty much what give rise to the Stalker Archtype. The set is really best for hit and run tactics. It is not designed to sit in a fight and draw aggro.
Brutes came after Scrappers. Hur hur. Check your facts first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
If you want a tanky brute, you'll need to pick a different armor set.
Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Dark Armor is a slow starter. Coupled with a non-mitigating primary, it can feel like a useless set. But when paired with a synergistic set it will feel better. When loaded with common IO's, it will feel great. When infused with Set IO's and a great Epic Pool, it will feel like you cannot be stopped.

Dark Armor characters need to be killed twice (at the very least) to be beaten, sometimes more if you have enough Recharge. Dark Regeneration is the BEST self-heal in the game when slotted properly (tips on slotting in my guide) and Dark Armor gives great resistance to uncommon damage types. Combine this set with Tough/Weave and Darkest Night from Soul Mastery and you'll have no problems taking on +1/x8 like I do.

You can tank with it. You can smash with it. You can use your MAGNITUDE THIRTY STUN to disable AV's.

Disregard je_saist's post, dearest OP. Try Dark Armor for yourself, read some guides, watch Dechs Kaison's Dark Armor Sucks video and witness the amazing feats this armor can perform.


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

Posted

Another ignorance filled post from je_saist. Why am I not surprised? Let's look at the most egregious errors, not that there was much of value in there at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Oppressive Gloom doesn't use much endurance, that isn't it's problem. The health drain isn't an issue either. There is a problem though, and it is a problem that is shared with Cloak of Fear.

Let me demonstrate by turning OG on in the middle of that freakshow mob.



Notice... anything peculiar about the Freakshow I have targeted. Say, maybe where he is in relation to me?

Oh yeah, he's way outside melee range. He's way outside taunt range. When that stun wears off and I've got a team-mate around, and I'm pushing a perception debuff on myself and my team-mate is not, what exactly do you think is going to happen?

If you thought... he's going to wake up and fire on my team-mate... you win the gold star.
You do not understand how aggro works in this game. Stealth doesn't shed aggro. Placeate sheds aggro, and dark armor brutes/tanks don't have placate. Also, that mob is certainly not "way outside taunt range." Taunt range is what? Seventy feet?

Quote:
The fear cloak is actually worse, and is just as likely to send enemies screaming off down the map in terror as it is to force them to stand still.
No, it isn't. That's not how fear works in this game, and hasn't for a long time.

Quote:
Then there's the problem with both auras that they pretty much only work on minions and some lewies... So unless you've got an attack with a stun or fear component, you probably aren't going to be able to mez out that boss or ebby that's ripping away at your spinal cord like a terrier chewing on a bone.
That's not what the mez auras are for. They aren't supposed to mez anything higher than minions. In fact, they can't mez any lieutenants on their own either, to the best of my knowledge, because they don't stack with themselves. Also, the fear aura has a -tohit component that doesn't require the mob to be feared to work.

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Something you have to remember is that the Dark Armor set is pretty much what give rise to the Stalker Archtype. The set is really best for hit and run tactics. It is not designed to sit in a fight and draw aggro.

If you want a tanky brute, you'll need to pick a different armor set.
Citation needed. Where the hell did you get the idea that Dark Armor is what inspired stalkers?

I and others, most famously Dechs Kaison, run very tanky Dark Armor characters. In my case, my Dark Armor scrap is the tankiest scrapper I have. The thing about Dark Armor is, if it can't kill you before Dark Regeneration recycles, it will never kill you. It's absolutely meant to sit in a fight and draw aggro.

Dark Armor's end issues are overrated. Most of them are cured with the addition of a ToE proc in DR. The rest are cured with easy-to-acquire accolades and some judicious slotting. With the alpha slot coming in now, no DA character at 50 should ever have to complain about end use again. My own DA scrapper runs ten toggles and doesn't have the alpha slot opened up yet, and is end stable forever.


 

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Emberly, we probably just wasted our time. Je_Saist is damn good at posting lies and ignorance and never coming back to the thread because, and I quote,

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Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
I don't give any room for argument. I don't give any room for comeback. I don't give any wiggle room for not like that.


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

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Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
For starters, Dark Armor is a purely resistance set. Unless you spend a significant amount of change on IO's, this means every single attack will be hitting you.
Base to hit chance for (most) NPCs is 50% so even against an AV only 75% of attacks will hit, this also completely ignores the fact that you do get a little bit of defense in Cloak of Darkness and can easily stack a bit more with power pools (Combat Jumping in particular gives a little more defense and costs almost nothing to run), additionally Cloak of Fear has a to hit debuff which effectively adds more defense. Dark Armor is about layered defenses, true you can't (easily) match the passive defenses of other sets but you get decent passive defenses combined with a lot more active defense than most sets.

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Notice... anything peculiar about the Freakshow I have targeted. Say, maybe where he is in relation to me?

Oh yeah, he's way outside melee range. He's way outside taunt range. When that stun wears off and I've got a team-mate around, and I'm pushing a perception debuff on myself and my team-mate is not, what exactly do you think is going to happen?

If you thought... he's going to wake up and fire on my team-mate... you win the gold star.
So take Taunt, move around or find a Controller to team with. There are plenty of options for either holding aggro on enemies who aren't in melee range or keeping mezzed enemies in melee range.

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Then there's the problem with both auras that they pretty much only work on minions and some lewies... So unless you've got an attack with a stun or fear component, you probably aren't going to be able to mez out that boss or ebby that's ripping away at your spinal cord like a terrier chewing on a bone.
So what? You mez the minions which lowers the incoming damage you face and means that your lower base resistance/defense compared to other sets isn't as big a deal.

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Now, while all of these factors make Dark Armor a complete and total waste as a tanking set...
One of the best Tankers I've ever met was Dark Armor.


 

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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
While it doesn't turn off, the Stealth portion DOES suppress. Even with that screenie you posted, you'll notice your stealth radius is a flat zero. Cloak of Darkness is not a pure cloak, it is also your immobilize protection, a nice +Perception buff and a place to slot a -KB IO.
I'm sorry to do this, I disagree with je_saist for another reason, but that WAS, technically correct. According to CoD (and I'm pretty sure I have confirmed this myself) the stealth does not suppress in PvE.

Part of the problem is that there are several factors that "suppress" in a stealth power. The first and foremost is the Defense. CoD's Defense is 3.75%, and this does not suppress. It is always 3.75% as long as the power is on.

The other factor that suppresses is the stealth radius. On CoD, this stealth only suppresses when you click a glowie. It does not suppress on attack or when attacking. It does in PvP, which may be where you were unsure.

The important point, though, is whether stealth suppresses or not, it does not effect aggro. CoD does not have a Threat modifier of -1. Therefore you do not recieve less aggro when you have CoD up. It will only prevent you from getting aggro from entering a foe's visibility range, as I described above.

There is no reason not to have CoD up all the time, which as mentioned since it gives you 3.75% Defense, Immobilization protection, and a nice buff to your own visibility, is probably something you should do.

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Originally Posted by Emberly View Post
No, it isn't. That's not how fear works in this game, and hasn't for a long time.
In all honestly, you CAN scare the bejezzus out of a foe so that he runs in terror from you, but it's either a) not the Fear effect, but the Afraid effect Spooky (for example) uses, or b) you've done so much damage to him or he's so grey to you that you were about to slaughter him anyway. CoF can probably on average be used more often than OG, (especially since the -Acc can be useful) but I agree that in general they aren't meant to be "armors".


 

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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon View Post
I'm sorry to do this, I disagree with je_saist for another reason, but that WAS, technically correct. According to CoD (and I'm pretty sure I have confirmed this myself) the stealth does not suppress in PvE.

Part of the problem is that there are several factors that "suppress" in a stealth power. The first and foremost is the Defense. CoD's Defense is 3.75%, and this does not suppress. It is always 3.75% as long as the power is on.

The other factor that suppresses is the stealth radius. On CoD, this stealth only suppresses when you click a glowie. It does not suppress on attack or when attacking. It does in PvP, which may be where you were unsure.

The important point, though, is whether stealth suppresses or not, it does not effect aggro. CoD does not have a Threat modifier of -1. Therefore you do not recieve less aggro when you have CoD up. It will only prevent you from getting aggro from entering a foe's visibility range, as I described above.

There is no reason not to have CoD up all the time, which as mentioned since it gives you 3.75% Defense, Immobilization protection, and a nice buff to your own visibility, is probably something you should do.
Fair enough. It's not actual stealth, however, and that was what I was getting at. It won't affect aggro, as you said. I'm long winded.


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

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Nice summary all in responding to irrevocably limited and inaccurate information.


City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.

R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Fair enough. It's not actual stealth, however, and that was what I was getting at. It won't affect aggro, as you said. I'm long winded.
Well, it IS, it's just "stealth" means a lot of things. Stealth Radius doesn't effect aggro, Threat does. But most stealth powers don't have Threat -1 any more, even if they once did. (I think maybe Stealth itself might have at one time, but it doesn't any more)


 

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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Yeah, but I'll bet he was an arrogant jackhole.
It's not arrogance when you can back it up!
/dark armor sucks


 

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Originally Posted by Arkadian_NA View Post
Thrid, why don't i see more DA Brutes?
The easiest way to answer the question is that DA is a rather complicated set (as far as brute goes) which is not for the feint of heart. You have to remember that there are a lot of people out there who are used to click and forget sets likes WP/SHD/SR. When presented with a complex set like DA, they are automatically turned off by it or simply don't know how to utilize its combination of powers. Truth be told, you *can* build a DA brute to surpass any of those previously mentioned secondaries, it just takes a good bit of trial and error as well as inf.

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Originally Posted by Arkadian_NA View Post
Is it just the end issues or is there a nasty suprise waiting for me later. Currently at 24 with a Miracle +end, Perf Shift +end, Theft of Essence +end and of course the lovely inherent Stamina...feels good so far.
The supposed endurance problem with DA is almost a non-issue these days with all the +end/rec IOs available out there. It's not like these IOs are expensive either. My level 50 Fire/DA brute doesn't have any endurance problems unless he's in a really long single target fight such as AVs, which is not all that common. He has all of the IOs that your build has except I got Numina's proc in place of Miracle's proc. The Theft of Essence proc almost always fires off at least once when I'm fighting against large spawns (which is 90% of the time, even when solo). At times I even pop off Dark Regeneartion right after rushing into a +6/8 spawn just for the sake of recharging my end bar even though I'm not hurt.

Now I did pass on CoF and picked up Darkest Night from the Soul Mastery pool instead. The reason for that is because he doesn't have softcapped S/L defense (39%) so the various -tohit/acc/dam compoments from DN, Gloom and Dark Obliteration has better synergy. That and Darknest Night is auto-hit while CoF has a low base accuracy. In anycase, don't let the nay-sayers doubt your DA brute. A lot of them base their opinions on outdated information and false perceptions.


 

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Thanks You All for your replies! Very informative. I now feel confident moving forward with this character as a "first man in, last man out" "TAUNT THE WORLD AND LET THE DEVS SORT EM OUT" kinda brute

Any suggestions on my build in the original post? I think it looks good and would be interesting to play: tough, with a couple of tools for flavor and a little toggle swapping for different situations...not your usual tankin brute i'd say.



Trying to read guides at work, feelin naughty


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkadian_NA View Post
Thanks You All for your replies! Very informative. I now feel confident moving forward with this character as a "first man in, last man out" "TAUNT THE WORLD AND LET THE DEVS SORT EM OUT" kinda brute

Any suggestions on my build in the original post? I think it looks good and would be interesting to play: tough, with a couple of tools for flavor and a little toggle swapping for different situations...not your usual tankin brute i'd say.



Trying to read guides at work, feelin naughty
I know the feeling. I actually run in to one spawn, and fling Dark Obliteration at another just to make things tougher.

I actually need to update my current guide to reflect my Live build; try it out if you have the money. With Tough/Weave I'm able to wade in to anything from +3/x3 to +1/x8 just for the hell of it.

I recently became very lucky on Purple drops (See: an entire set of Absolute Amazement in the span of 6 hours O_O) and have about 50% global recharge right now, without Hasten. Give my build a shot once I update it, see if it'd fit your playstyle. Tweak it, change it, make it your own


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkadian_NA View Post
Any suggestions on my build in the original post? I think it looks good and would be interesting to play: tough, with a couple of tools for flavor and a little toggle swapping for different situations...not your usual tankin brute i'd say.
If it was me, I would ditch CoF and grab Death Shroud. Slot 3x dam/end IOs and one acc/dam/end IO in it and it's golden. Take the slots out of OG and put one more in Obsidian Shield for the 3% Steadfast. Replace the IOs in Tough with a four-set of Reactive Armors. Replace the Numi heal IO in Health with a Miracle heal IO for the recovery bonus, more valuable to you with your big heal. Some other tweaks too; replace the Pounding Slugfests with one Crushing Impact D/E/R and one Focused Smite A/E/R for better numbers overall. Pull slots out of LBE (blah) and use them and the other free slots to five-slot Taunt and stuff it with Mocking Beratement. Fool around with slotting in DR to get some better numbers on recharge; healing enhancement isn't as important because you are gonna hit a few mobs with it, presumably. Something like this:

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Some of your slotting looks like it is aimed at increasing regeneration, which isn't needed on a DA brute because of the fat heal in DR. Plenty of places to improve what I posted above, but that's my fast advice.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
The set is really best for hit and run tactics. It is not designed to sit in a fight and draw aggro.

If you want a tanky brute, you'll need to pick a different armor set.
I made this on a 10 minute break. +2/x8 Rikti. Two purple insps and one medium heal used throughout. I know it's "lolrikti" but it's proof you don't need to run from your battles.

Tank this.


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."