Dark Armor Taunt and Stealth Questions


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Originally Posted by Emberly View Post
If it was me, I would ditch CoF and grab Death Shroud. Slot 3x dam/end IOs and one acc/dam/end IO in it and it's golden. Take the slots out of OG and put one more in Obsidian Shield for the 3% Steadfast. Replace the IOs in Tough with a four-set of Reactive Armors. Replace the Numi heal IO in Health with a Miracle heal IO for the recovery bonus, more valuable to you with your big heal. Some other tweaks too; replace the Pounding Slugfests with one Crushing Impact D/E/R and one Focused Smite A/E/R for better numbers overall. Pull slots out of LBE (blah) and use them and the other free slots to five-slot Taunt and stuff it with Mocking Beratement. Fool around with slotting in DR to get some better numbers on recharge; healing enhancement isn't as important because you are gonna hit a few mobs with it, presumably. Something like this:


Some of your slotting looks like it is aimed at increasing regeneration, which isn't needed on a DA brute because of the fat heal in DR. Plenty of places to improve what I posted above, but that's my fast advice.
I've never understood not giving Obsidian Shield slot love; it can be the difference between soloing Sister Psyche/Numina and getting stomped by them. 58% Psi Resist after ED and before Alpha? Yes please!


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
I've never understood not giving Obsidian Shield slot love; it can be the difference between soloing Sister Psyche/Numina and getting stomped by them. 58% Psi Resist after ED and before Alpha? Yes please!
The slot I suggested adding would be the fifth one I agree on slotting up your psi resist, it's like your special snowflake power!


 

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One thing I didn't see mentioned: The stun/fear wears off long before the taunt duration expires. You shouldn't care if mobs wander. They are still taunted and will come right back.

Yes, OG and CoF have their own taunt auras (at least for tanks). They don't amplify each other, but even running just OG will taunt enemies.


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More than that they've taken damage from Death Shroud (even a pulse or two before they wander away in the case of OG, which I hate - I use cloak of fear). With Brute's threat modifier that should be enough to get them coming back for more after the stun or fear duration's up.

If they're not, you know... dead. Which they will be on a team.


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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
One thing I didn't see mentioned: The stun/fear wears off long before the taunt duration expires. You shouldn't care if mobs wander. They are still taunted and will come right back.

Yes, OG and CoF have their own taunt auras (at least for tanks). They don't amplify each other, but even running just OG will taunt enemies.
Well, this is the Brute version we're talking about I think, and they don't have the taunt aura. So you'd be relying on your Death Shroud to draw them back.

But yeah, on my Tanker I often choose which taunt aura based on what I want my "aura" to do. They're, well, they're ferrets. They can either bite the foes, scare them, or disorient them.


 

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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Again, a Brute does not want OG. It hinders fury generation and is a general pain in the butt. Skip it.
You state this as an absolute rather than what it is, your opinion.

I have OG on my /DA Brute and I run it full-time. I don't have problems maintaining aggro or fury while filling the primary tank role for teams. If you don't like it, that's fine, but it is not an absolute truth that it is a poor power for Brutes.

I run Cloak of Darkness as well, and the only problem I've had when tanking on teams is the one that someone mentioned earlier. Occasionally a nearby spawn that didn't see me will see and attack my teammates. It's not a particularly difficult problem though. It just means I have to throw a taunt or attack and nearby spawns so I get aggro before my teammates.


 

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Originally Posted by Supernumiphone View Post
You state this as an absolute rather than what it is, your opinion.

I have OG on my /DA Brute and I run it full-time. I don't have problems maintaining aggro or fury while filling the primary tank role for teams. If you don't like it, that's fine, but it is not an absolute truth that it is a poor power for Brutes.

I run Cloak of Darkness as well, and the only problem I've had when tanking on teams is the one that someone mentioned earlier. Occasionally a nearby spawn that didn't see me will see and attack my teammates. It's not a particularly difficult problem though. It just means I have to throw a taunt or attack and nearby spawns so I get aggro before my teammates.
Alright, let me put it another way: When I tried to use it, 85% of the spawns I'd jump in to would wander around like idiots... and then wander away. So long as I kept OG on, they'd just hobble around dizzily and turn a regular cluster into a big scattered mess.

I'll rephrase for you. OG is a pain in the butt because it tends to bust up a Brute's efficiency due to how stunned enemies behave.

Better?


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

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Loving all the info., thanks for that build Emberly good insights. Dechs and Nalrok both of your guides were very helpful, exactly the stuff i needed to hear when i made this post.

One thing that confuses me on some of these posts...why play /DA if you aren't using the powers that make it unique? CoF, OG, CoD, Soul Transfer...those are the "gimmicks" that made me interested in the powerset. Without the bag of tricks wouldn't it just be better to play plain old /Invul or even /elec?


 

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Originally Posted by baron_inferno View Post
The easiest way to answer the question is that DA is a rather complicated set (as far as brute goes) which is not for the feint of heart. You have to remember that there are a lot of people out there who are used to click and forget sets likes WP/SHD/SR. When presented with a complex set like DA, they are automatically turned off by it or simply don't know how to utilize its combination of powers. Truth be told, you *can* build a DA brute to surpass any of those previously mentioned secondaries, it just takes a good bit of trial and error as well as inf.



The supposed endurance problem with DA is almost a non-issue these days with all the +end/rec IOs available out there. It's not like these IOs are expensive either. My level 50 Fire/DA brute doesn't have any endurance problems unless he's in a really long single target fight such as AVs, which is not all that common. He has all of the IOs that your build has except I got Numina's proc in place of Miracle's proc. The Theft of Essence proc almost always fires off at least once when I'm fighting against large spawns (which is 90% of the time, even when solo). At times I even pop off Dark Regeneartion right after rushing into a +6/8 spawn just for the sake of recharging my end bar even though I'm not hurt.

Now I did pass on CoF and picked up Darkest Night from the Soul Mastery pool instead. The reason for that is because he doesn't have softcapped S/L defense (39%) so the various -tohit/acc/dam compoments from DN, Gloom and Dark Obliteration has better synergy. That and Darknest Night is auto-hit while CoF has a low base accuracy. In anycase, don't let the nay-sayers doubt your DA brute. A lot of them base their opinions on outdated information and false perceptions.
That's what i'm talking about!


 

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Originally Posted by Arkadian_NA View Post
Loving all the info., thanks for that build Emberly good insights. Dechs and Nalrok both of your guides were very helpful, exactly the stuff i needed to hear when i made this post.

One thing that confuses me on some of these posts...why play /DA if you aren't using the powers that make it unique? CoF, OG, CoD, Soul Transfer...those are the "gimmicks" that made me interested in the powerset. Without the bag of tricks wouldn't it just be better to play plain old /Invul or even /elec?
CoF can be used to stack -ToHit on enemies. Only reason I don't have CoF is because I opted out on personal preference. One day I may drop hasten and try it out again.

OG frustrates me. XD

And the biggest reason to use /Dark Armor, IMO, is it's utilities. Dark Regen, the massive Psi resist, and Soul Transfer are all incredible powers.


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

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Originally Posted by Arkadian_NA View Post
One thing that confuses me on some of these posts...why play /DA if you aren't using the powers that make it unique? CoF, OG, CoD, Soul Transfer...those are the "gimmicks" that made me interested in the powerset. Without the bag of tricks wouldn't it just be better to play plain old /Invul or even /elec?
Well, to me the answer to that is that Oppressive Gloom, while it may be frustrating to keep it up all the time, can be useful in emergency situations. It can be used to "pulse" a disorient which will cause your foes to stagger around, but not outside of the radius of Death Shroud. And it can be used solo, when it doesn't matter if your foes wander outside of your taunt aura.

I mean, Unstoppable is one of the powers that makes Invulnerabilty unique, but most folks don't recommend keeping it perma any more. You've got to know how and when to safely use it. Cloak of Fear is usually safe to us, Soul Transfer, well, you've got to be dead, so it's situational to start with, but it's usually okay to use it once to are dead. Oppressive Gloom is a bit more of a situational power.


 

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Ive never run a Dark / Dark Brute past about 10 or 12, but I've got a lvl 50 dark / dark / energy scrapper and a level 41 dark / dark tank...and a level 50 Dark / Dark / Dark defender for that matter...so I'm pretty familiar with the set.

Dark Dark is really a very powerful combo. You just have to stay on your toes and use your clickies intelligently. The set rewards active management.

If you are more of a click and forget player you will faceplant a lot, because Dark / Dark life and end are yo-yo's. If you miss Dark REgen or Dark Consumption at a key moment, you will have problems. On the otherhand, you can go from nearly knocked out and reeling from lack of END to totally topped off in seconds. My darks usually start off ugly with a Dark buidup (can't recall the power name off hand but its a click siphon that debuffs and damages) and Shadow Maul + Sands of Mu combo, Siphon Life and / or Midnight Grasp as the come up, and a Smite or Boxing to fill any gaps in the chain...my life and END falls quickly, I pop Dark REgen and Dark COnsumption, finish the spawn fully refreshed and dive into the next one.

I use Hover to plug the KB gap, but an IO works also...or Acrobatics even I suppose. THat's the main annoyance w/ Dark / Dark is not having any kb protection. If you can't use your critical clickies because you are getting flipped on your rear end its a problem.

As to the Taunt, it works fine with the combat stealth. Anything you taunt will see you and come to you, other mobs will tend not to notice you. With just a little bit of finesse you can be pretty precise with how many you grab, particularly solo where you are on your own time and everything is under control. My dark tank works like a taunt and burn tanker; I taunt big mobs on to me and let Death Shroud melt them away.


Anyway, Dark Dark is a different feel than other sets. It can be a lot of fun if you like a more adrenaline fueled experience.


 

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Long-time SS/DA brute player here, leveled mine to 50 pre-IOs. Stealth is a non-issue; jump in with Death Shroud running and FootStomp. They'll pay attention. The mez auras are great situational tools that you don't want to use most of the time. My most recent build doesn't have either. There's a few DA posts with my name on them floating around if you're looking for IO build ideas.


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Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
If you want a tanky brute, you'll need to pick a different armor set.
Considering that I've tanked Recluse on an STF for a few min when our silly Shield tank got killed an had to run back... I have to disagree.


 

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Originally Posted by Arkadian_NA View Post
One thing that confuses me on some of these posts...why play /DA if you aren't using the powers that make it unique? CoF, OG, CoD, Soul Transfer...those are the "gimmicks" that made me interested in the powerset. Without the bag of tricks wouldn't it just be better to play plain old /Invul or even /elec?
DA has moderate resists, a smidgen of defense, a damage aura and a stoopid-good heal. Oh, and the mez auras that my brute mostly ignores. Invuln has godlike S/L res, defense that scales with mobs around you and an infrequent-click +HP/heal. Elec gets good resists, no defense, end mitigation, a damage aura and a reasonable click-heal.

Different mitigation leads to different playstyles and tactics. People who look at DA and see mez auras are missing the point; its a completely different way to play.

I also enjoy the more even performance curve. It may not have Invul's uberness vs. S/L, but it doesn't cringe away from Psi either. Herding Council or Carnies is pretty much the same (try that with Invul).

[Edit: Since you're interested, I'll point out: CoF synergizes extremely well with Rage]