Bizarre behavior of Time & Space Manipulation Stealth IO in Teleport
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-11-26 20:33 in The Market and Inventions
Quote:
Working as intended. The stealth bonus you get from those IOs (and most Stealth powers as well) is suppressed when you use most powers. So it sounds like teleport is suppressing your stealth right as you teleport. Now I can definitely see an argument for changing Teleport to not suppress stealth effects but as it stands now it's WAI.
|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
What's going on here? Is this working as intended, or a bug?
|
In this case I think 'Working as Designed' might be a better term. I doubt the intention was to make you be visible as you teleport but, I'm no dev so I can't say for sure.
Well, that's pretty screwy in practice. A stealth IO in Super Speed doesn't make you visible when you start running, although it sounds like it would when you turn on the SS toggle. But in practice you can run, stop, run and stay stealthed. But not with Teleport?
Hrm, anyone tried a stealth IO in Super Jump? Do you uncloak for an instant every time you kick off the ground?
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
Probably not, beacuse your not actually activating a power the way you do when you tp. TP is a click instead of a toggle. That's the big difference afaict
|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Well, that's pretty screwy in practice. A stealth IO in Super Speed doesn't make you visible when you start running, although it sounds like it would when you turn on the SS toggle. But in practice you can run, stop, run and stay stealthed. But not with Teleport?
Hrm, anyone tried a stealth IO in Super Jump? Do you uncloak for an instant every time you kick off the ground? |
One way to test this would be to take a character with the Stealth power and see if Teleport unstealths that. AFAIK, the mechanics should be identical.
EDIT: I have run into a similar issue with Stealth and Invis, where the split second where one power untoggles the other leaves the character entirely visible and subject to detection.
No promises, but I bet this is a bug caused by the prevention of double-stacking.
Imagine that you teleport twice in a row. Should you have two stealth effects? Of course not. So, how to prevent this? Why, remove one before applying the other. That's how.
No proof that this is what's going on, but it fits the general pattern of quirky behavior of procs in the game.
That shouldn't be necessary. All that's required to prevent that is "does not stack from same caster".
[The reason the Stealth IO in toggles stack when you zone is because all buffs "forget" who cast them on zone. Anything can be stacked by the same caster after the target zones, even when it's flagged not to.]
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
That's not really correct. They only suppress on power activation* when you attack a foe. Using powers on yourself is permitted without becoming visible. I haven't tried it, but I suspect buffing allies is as well. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Working as intended. The stealth bonus you get from those IOs (and most Stealth powers as well) is suppressed when you use most powers.
|
* They also suppress if you click a glowie.
I think this is just plain bugged. My bet would be it broke when they most recently changed how they work in toggles. They probably didn't have anyone testing this combo in that beta. I'm betting it's not a common slotting scheme. But... maybe it's always worked like this. I couldn't say.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
IIRC back in the days before ED it was easy enough to stack group invis. When you did this, you became instantaneously visible, I suspect for the reason described.|
Originally Posted by seebs
No promises, but I bet this is a bug caused by the prevention of double-stacking.
Imagine that you teleport twice in a row. Should you have two stealth effects? Of course not. So, how to prevent this? Why, remove one before applying the other. That's how. No proof that this is what's going on, but it fits the general pattern of quirky behavior of procs in the game. |
A similar effect stopped them removing stacking clear minds.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
Quote:
I totally forgot about the that Clear Mind example. That's almost certainly it. So it's what seebs said after all, at least sort of.|
Originally Posted by Minotaur
IIRC back in the days before ED it was easy enough to stack group invis. When you did this, you became instantaneously visible, I suspect for the reason described.
A similar effect stopped them removing stacking clear minds. |
It's not an intentional removal-before-replacement, per-se. They're not explicitly saying "hey, we don't want it to stack, so let's remove it first." They did flag it "doesn't stack from same caster". This is just how all things flagged that way work. It's an implementation detail, and one even Castle didn't expect and presumably didn't exactly want.
Edit: That suggests it's always been like this.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Just after inventions came in, I noted this behavior.
It works like this in all the click TP powers (recall, the various Kheldian ones etc)
I always put it down as the anti-stacking code. Shruged it off and never slotted it again.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Quote:
Not only is buffing self and allies okay, but you can plant bombs right at the foot of an enemy without negating your stealth.
|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
That's not really correct. They only suppress on power activation* when you attack a foe. Using powers on yourself is permitted without becoming visible. I haven't tried it, but I suspect buffing allies is as well.
|
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
So I have one of these. It works.
Mostly.
After I port I am stealthed for a period of time...I assume it's the "120 seconds" period, but I haven't actually measured it. I can get fairly close and not be seen, but it's not true invisibility.
I can walk around the enemy in a circle, and (as long as I stay that certain short distance away) not be seen. I can walk AWAY and not be seen. I can TELEPORT INTO close-but-not-too-close range and not be seen.
But if I teleport again while relatively close, I am suddenly seen right at the moment of teleporting.
So, once I am, say, 30-40 feet from the enemy, I can walk out of close-ish range and stay stealthed but I can't teleport out of range without waking up the spawn and getting attacked. I am visible for an instant right as I 'port.
What's going on here? Is this working as intended, or a bug?
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog