Squishy demons


beowulf2010

 

Posted

I'm playing a demon/dark mastermind. I've played bots/dark and thugs/dark both in the past, and I'm a bit disappointed in how squishy my demons are in comparison. I'm hoping things will improve when I get the resist and defense aura procs for them, and when I get fluffy at 38, but does anyone have any other suggestions on how to keep the little buggers alive?


 

Posted

Ok. I had a bit of the same issue in the beginning. Mind you Nyte-Terror is only 22, but her Demons were dead, alot!

So, When I got Muffin...Summon Demon power, I have slotted him for 1 damage, 1 heal and 3 Resist damages, and I took Manuevers for some extra defense.

Im using poison as well which allows me to debuff enemies chance to hit, as well as lower their defenses so the demons become more DPS.

But I do notice a huge difference now with his resists being higher.


 

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I also have a Demon/Dark MM at lvl 50 and to be honest..my demons can still be rather squishy at times. My toon isn't fully IO'd out yet though, so maybe that has something to do with it. I /have/ seen a fully IO'd out DS though and again.. demons still squishy. The upside to this was he would kill any PC/NPC quick enough that it the squishy demons weren't a concern.


 

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The +Res and +Def auras will make a noticeable difference, especially if you get the recharge intensive ones as well.

Fluffy will also increase survivability considerably. Slot him heavily for +ToHitDebuff and I would recommend Recall Friend, if you can fit it into your build, so that you can position him exactly where you want him. In the same vein, get Fearsome Stare, slot it for +ToHitDebuff and +RechRed with a little +Acc, and use it often. Use Petrifying Gaze to disable hard targets. Your radius for Twilight Grasp is small, so get good at maneuvering to get your demons in it's range. A good opening sequence is FS -> TP -> DN (PG on the anchor to keep him put). Howling Twilight is also a great opener.

Put a couple +Res IO's in Summon Demons, but DO NOT place any Heal IO's in it. This will cause your Ember Demon to heal for more, but less frequently. Conventional wisdom dictates that you want his heal to go off as often as possible.

Like every other set, it gets better with the tier 3 henchman and the final upgrade at 32.


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Posted

Heal IO's are fine. Ember fires his team heal no matter what.


 

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I have a Demons/Dark and I really enjoy it... it's one of my toughest Masterminds (aside from the Bots/Traps). Some things that help a lot:

  • Slot Fearsome Stare for to-hit debuff instead of just fear, and make sure you get enough recharge to use it every spawn. Also slot Darkest Night for to-hit debuff. Between the two of them you reduce incoming damage a lot.
  • Once you get Fluffy and make him permanent it makes a world of difference. Even more so when you slot him for to-hit debuff.
  • Slot the resist and defense auras. Both sets can go in Hell on Earth.
  • Slot plenty of generic endurance reduction in Summon Demons and Summon Demon Prince. They run out of endurance fast once you get the second upgrade, and they have multiple types of powers so you need generic (or Hamidon) enhancements since sets only apply to powers that can use them. No heals and no slows or holds due to empty endurance bars will make you lose pets a lot more often.
  • Watch your spawn sizes. You are essentially "softcapping" your pets by flooring your enemies' chance to hit them. Against very large spawns you may not be able to hit everything with your debuffs and a lot of enemies will be outside Fluffy's range, so your pets will start taking a whole lot more hits.
As far as putting heal IOs in Ember Demon, I'd suggest adding one if you can squeeze it in. But the most important things are accuracy and damage (remember, that slot also affects the Hellfire Gargoyle who is your heavy hitter), endurance, and resist. I'm waiting until I can go with Hami-Os to add any healing.


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Posted

I completely agree with Stryker. I would add: it seems to me when the endurance on the ember demon gets down toward 33% or so, it seems the heals taper off first. Feed your ember demon blues if you have to in order to keep him fully functional.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrykerX View Post
I have a Demons/Dark and I really enjoy it... it's one of my toughest Masterminds (aside from the Bots/Traps). Some things that help a lot:
[LIST][*]Slot plenty of generic endurance reduction in Summon Demons and Summon Demon Prince. They run out of endurance fast once you get the second upgrade, and they have multiple types of powers so you need generic (or Hamidon) enhancements since sets only apply to powers that can use them. No heals and no slows or holds due to empty endurance bars will make you lose pets a lot more often.
Just curious since I could've been misled in the past but has placing end reduction in the pet slots allowed them to conserve end? I thought it was for the master to conserve end when calling them to battle? I would assume with set IO's the end reducers are for the specific purpose you stated but until now its been a mystery to me.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastMan View Post
Just curious since I could've been misled in the past but has placing end reduction in the pet slots allowed them to conserve end? I thought it was for the master to conserve end when calling them to battle? I would assume with set IO's the end reducers are for the specific purpose you stated but until now its been a mystery to me.
End reducers do work for the pet, with the caveat that they only work for the type of power that matches the set, and non-attack powers do not match up with pet damage sets. For this reason some put a generic end reducer in demons, which I've been strongly considering as my ember demon chews through his blue bar rather quickly. Oddly enough, so does the cold demonling, anybody know why he uses so much more than the other demonlings?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Offda_Handel View Post
Put a couple +Res IO's in Summon Demons, but DO NOT place any Heal IO's in it. This will cause your Ember Demon to heal for more, but less frequently. Conventional wisdom dictates that you want his heal to go off as often as possible.
Would you mind explaining how that works? Conventional wisdom also dictates that slotting a Heal IO has nothing at all to do with the recharge of a specific power.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Would you mind explaining how that works? Conventional wisdom also dictates that slotting a Heal IO has nothing at all to do with the recharge of a specific power.
I assume it has to do with the line of reasoning that the less health a henchmen has before being healed, the greater chance they will die before being healed. So by extension it's better to have your Ember Demon heal for smaller amounts so he'll (she'll?) heal your wounded henchmen sooner thus (hopefully) preventing your henchmen (especially the minions) from getting killed before they get healed.


Beowulf -
Too many Alts, not enough 50's. Story of my life...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Would you mind explaining how that works? Conventional wisdom also dictates that slotting a Heal IO has nothing at all to do with the recharge of a specific power.
This has to do with how the AI handles single target heals... namely, it won't use one until it has a target that can be healed for that entire amount.

As that's probably as clear as mud, here's an example: Suppose your Ember Demon's single target heal can restore 100 hp. Given that, it WILL NOT use this on a target that has not lost at least 100 hp. Not even on something that has lost 99 hp, it's got to have at least 100 gone.

Thus, enhancing the strength of the heal means that the pet won't be using it as often. I don't have the real numbers, but I can say that based on my experience, I'd rather have more frequent heals for a lower value, than a large heal that rarely gets used... (And I have seen the effects of this when I foolishly slotted a heal into my Protector Bots on my Bots/Traps.)

Keep in mind, though... this rule does not seem to hold true for aura heals. The Ember Demon seems to use that regularly.

So, for demons.... while leveling up, slotting heals is counter productive. After getting the second upgrade, enhancing the heal may be worthwhile... but not to the expense of Endurance Reduction, Accuracy, and Damage. Enhancing Healing and Damage Resistance (that only apply to the Ember Demon anyway) should take a back seat to those main three aspects...


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Impact View Post
End reducers do work for the pet, with the caveat that they only work for the type of power that matches the set, and non-attack powers do not match up with pet damage sets. For this reason some put a generic end reducer in demons, which I've been strongly considering as my ember demon chews through his blue bar rather quickly. Oddly enough, so does the cold demonling, anybody know why he uses so much more than the other demonlings?
I'm running an experiment at the moment. I put in full sets of Brilliant Leadership in all my pets and the blue bars have hardly moved so far. Although I am /pain so possibly it could be that my ember is not healing that much. I guess I'll have to hold my own heals and see what happens.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by firespray View Post
I'm playing a demon/dark mastermind. I've played bots/dark and thugs/dark both in the past, and I'm a bit disappointed in how squishy my demons are in comparison. I'm hoping things will improve when I get the resist and defense aura procs for them, and when I get fluffy at 38, but does anyone have any other suggestions on how to keep the little buggers alive?
Demons already survive better than Zombies. Demons have at last lethal and smashing resistance while Zombies only have smashing and no lethal (oh, I hate Longbows). Ninja could be even worse in terms of survival.

Being partially melee pets just die easier than mostly ranged. I think Demons already survive better than Necro and Ninja.

The resistant and defense unique will help greatly for sure.


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.