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No, Defensive/attack only occurs when you order your henchmen to attack a target. Henchmen in any defensive stance, automatically counterattack anything that attacks them or their owners.|
Originally Posted by Veslin
So, on a recent post, people were saying I did not understand bodyguard mode, and that could be fair, cause maybe I don't.
As far as I knew, it required that pets be on Defensive/Follow. Now as soon as you take a hit, your pets attack the enemy that hit you/them, causing them to switch to Defensive/attack. Does that not break BG? |
Basically as long as your pets are in defensive stance, in range of Supremacy AND you don't order them to attack any targets directly, you are in bodyguard mode.
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Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
No, Defensive/attack only occurs when you order your henchmen to attack a target. Henchmen in any defensive stance, automatically counterattack anything that attacks them or their owners.
Basically as long as your pets are in defensive stance, in range of Supremacy AND you don't order them to attack any targets directly, you are in bodyguard mode. |
This, 100%.
The second paragraph needs emphasizing. It's Defensive, not Defensive Follow, that gives Bodyguard. You can use Defensive Stay or Defensive Goto also. Plus, you can put your pets on Aggressive, let them fight, then use "/petcomall Defensive" in the middle of the fight and get full bodyguard immediately.(*) Your pets won't pause in attacking, they'll keep fighting, but you'll get the benefits of Bodyguard right away.
It's Follow that causes your pets to stop what they are doing and run towards you, for about 5-10 seconds. This can be really useful when you want Bodyguard but don't want your pets to respond to mobs. Spam "Def Fol" everyone 5 seconds or so, and you'll get 4x the hit points and have complete control of your pets too. (Well, complete control means they'll follow you and not respond. This works for pulling.)
(*) Assuming they are not sill executing an "Attack" command, and if they're all in Supremacy range. Pets need to have Supremacy (about 80ft range, plus line-of-sight), for that pet to contribute to Bodyguard mode.
Attack Defensive - takes pets out of BG mode whilst fighting the targetted mob and then switches them back into BG mode after that mob is defeated
Goto Defensive - Allows BG mode without the attack delay that Follow Defensive has. The pets will run back to the selected spot once the mobs have been defeated (in theory)
Stay Defensive - Does not make them stay for very long, or at all in the case of large spawns
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Stay, at least from my experience, makes your henchmen stay at their location for one AI iteration, once that is over, they go back into their normal stance and happily charge at the enemy.|
Originally Posted by Scene_EU
Stay Defensive - Does not make them stay for very long, or at all in the case of large spawns
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I have kept my range pets from ever charging into range by spamming my stay button multiple times a second. This caused my pets to constantly fire at the enemy instead of charge at them but they would sort of skip or slide forward as AI tried to make them run into melee range.
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
Just remember that BG mode is a per pet counter so you can have some pets in Defensive mode and others in attack mode.
Also BG pets trigger a response when any of your pets/henchmen get attacked as well, so it's not just the MM that will trigger the response.
I frequently put my Assault Bot on attack mode and when it gets hit in response the other pets light up on the attacker even though the rest are in BG. Note that BG pets will remain in a responsive attack only during BG mode.
I've had BG pets that have stopped attacking because the target was held/knockdown/mezzed long enough where the BG aggro wore off.
Also remember that during the first 5 seconds of BG mode your BG pets will not respond to any attacks (by design). You can force them to attack if you want but then they will be out of BG mode, of course.
The basic idea is that by using Defensive Follow, instead of Attack, you are sacrificing initiative for the effect of Bodyguard. Your henchmen cannot fire first, either you or one of them must be hit before they will return fire. However, once they have been "aggroed", you do not lose Bodyguard, and you are able to defeat your foes.
Defensive Attack costs you Bodyguard, but your henchmen can concentrate their fire on a single target to defeat it quickly. There are advantages to both, and depending on the situation, you may prefer to be in one or the other.
There is also what I refer to as "partial Bodyguard", which is where you set a subset of your henchmen to either (Defensive) Attack or Aggressive (Follow or Goto). You then get Bodyguard only from the henchmen that you have left in Defensive Follow. This can be useful, because you still have a portion of your Bodyguard, but one or more of your henchmen take the initiative, and thus the return fire. Once that henchman has been fired upon, your defensive henchmen will open fire to protect him.
Whether you choose to set this subset to Attack or an Aggressive stance, again, depends on the situation and your own style. Using Attack will concentrate fire on a single target, while Aggressive Goto will let the henchman select his own target, but he will attack the moment he moves into range of a potential target, without waiting to be attacked or for you to give him the order. The latter is particularly useful for sending meleers into melee range with their foes. (Attack will usually make them use ranged attacks first, although currently there's some AI issues that has changed this)
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I've also had henchmen "forget" to attack because my Defense was so high all the foes' attacks were missing me. Henchmen will also not aggro on foes that attack your teammates, so Bodyguard can cause issues there, too. In such a case you will either want to use Provoke (the Tankermind strategy) or send a henchman in Aggressive to gather aggro. |
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
I've had BG pets that have stopped attacking because the target was held/knockdown/mezzed long enough where the BG aggro wore off.
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| Also remember that during the first 5 seconds of BG mode your BG pets will not respond to any attacks (by design). You can force them to attack if you want but then they will be out of BG mode, of course. |
Attack also lasts until the foe targetted is dead, at which time it reverts back to Stay. I think, possibly it reverts back to the last non-Attack command given. I always issue a Follow command after a battle is over, though, so I'm not really sure what it reverts to. The important thing is, as long as your command was Attack Defensive and not Aggressive, the henchman should go back into Bodyguard mode even if he starts to deal with other targets. Only if you issue another Attack command will you lose Bodyguard again.
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If this is happening to you, it's some kind of bug. Henchies will retaliate whenever an attack is attempted, regardless of whether it lands or not. You can test this by taking a high level MM to Cap, setting your henchies to defensive/follow, and brawling a bad guy. He'll miss (95 times out of a 100 anyway) and your minions will kick into gear and turn him into a grease spot.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
I've also had henchmen "forget" to attack because my Defense was so high all the foes' attacks were missing me.
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AFAIK, mezzed baddies and marathon runners (you know, the ones that run clear to the other side of the map) are the only guys that your henchmen will forget about, due to them not attacking for X number of seconds. I've always wondered, what is that magic number anyway?
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... will sometimes get chased by the pet(s) until you spam your follow/stay passive if that mob is the top one on the pets aggro list at the time. Not an uncommon experience I've had
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Originally Posted by Offda_Handel
the ones that run clear to the other side of the map
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http://www.scene-and-heard.com/cov/covsig.jpg
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That should not happen. Any attempt at an attack should result in your bodyguards returning fire, whether it misses or not. You can test this by taking your much higher level MM to a lowbee zone and using an non damage attack (debuff) on a target while your pets are in complete BG mode.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
I've also had henchmen "forget" to attack because my Defense was so high all the foes' attacks were missing me.
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It would be the equivalent of being def capped.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Attack also lasts until the foe targetted is dead...
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Once you allow the boss to resume attacking, you'll find the pets will respond to the attack again.
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I've just been experimenting with this and I'm not sure it's strictly the case. From what I'm seeing it looks like the pet only returns to follow if it hasn't been attacked while defating the target mob. Otherwise it moves on to the new target and stays in attack and therefore doesn't return to bodyguard. Is this just me?!
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Originally Posted by Scene_EU
Attack Defensive - takes pets out of BG mode whilst fighting the targetted mob and then switches them back into BG mode after that mob is defeated
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It's not just you. Pets that are ordered to attack stay in "attack" mode until they are out of combat. If there are other enemies aggroed they'll stay in attack mode until those are dropped, and likewise if you get ambushed or a patrol stumbles on you before they finish taking out their target they won't go back to defensive until everything is dead or no longer attacking (held for more than a few seconds, ran away, etc...). They will immediately drop back to defend mode if killing their target doesn't alert other enemies, so you can drop stragglers who are off away from the rest of their spawn and not have to order them back to follow. Also, while Stay or Goto keep bodyguard mode active if the pets are in Defensive Follow when you issue the order, they do not activate Bodyguard if you issue them while the pets are in Defensive Attack mode. You need to issue a Follow command to be certain of getting Bodyguard if you have sent the pets to attack and then come under fire.
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Originally Posted by parabola_EU
I've just been experimenting with this and I'm not sure it's strictly the case. From what I'm seeing it looks like the pet only returns to follow if it hasn't been attacked while defating the target mob. Otherwise it moves on to the new target and stays in attack and therefore doesn't return to bodyguard. Is this just me?!
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Originally Posted by parabola_EU
I've just been experimenting with this and I'm not sure it's strictly the case. From what I'm seeing it looks like the pet only returns to follow if it hasn't been attacked while defating the target mob. Otherwise it moves on to the new target and stays in attack and therefore doesn't return to bodyguard. Is this just me?!
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
It's not just you. Pets that are ordered to attack stay in "attack" mode until they are out of combat. If there are other enemies aggroed they'll stay in attack mode until those are dropped, and likewise if you get ambushed or a patrol stumbles on you before they finish taking out their target they won't go back to defensive until everything is dead or no longer attacking (held for more than a few seconds, ran away, etc...). They will immediately drop back to defend mode if killing their target doesn't alert other enemies, so you can drop stragglers who are off away from the rest of their spawn and not have to order them back to follow. Also, while Stay or Goto keep bodyguard mode active if the pets are in Defensive Follow when you issue the order, they do not activate Bodyguard if you issue them while the pets are in Defensive Attack mode. You need to issue a Follow command to be certain of getting Bodyguard if you have sent the pets to attack and then come under fire.
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Pets that respond to attack in BG mode are still giving the MM a BG buff (ie. the damage is still split).
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Originally Posted by Alkirin
I don't know if my experience is unique or not, but my pets still soak damage when I place them on attack/defensive. Granted, they don't necessarily stick to their target for long, but they still soak damage for me.
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Originally Posted by Alkirin
I don't know if my experience is unique or not, but my pets still soak damage when I place them on attack/defensive. Granted, they don't necessarily stick to their target for long, but they still soak damage for me.
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And pets that are ordered to attack revert to Bodyguard as soon as their target is dead. (That is, if you did "attack defensive" or just "attack" and they were on Defensive to begin with.)
Your pets will continue to attack, because now they are responding to the aggro they caused, but since they're on Defensive and responding to an attack, that counts as BG mode.
However, normally during the "attack" phase you don't have BG mode. If you do and can confirm it (maybe against a hard target like a GM, so it lasts a while), that might be a bug.
So, on a recent post, people were saying I did not understand bodyguard mode, and that could be fair, cause maybe I don't.
As far as I knew, it required that pets be on Defensive/Follow. Now as soon as you take a hit, your pets attack the enemy that hit you/them, causing them to switch to Defensive/attack. Does that not break BG?