Mission Architect Arc Club

It's weird this thread was started one day before mine and we were both thinking along the same lines.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=243441

I'm wondering if we should combine efforts?

Where this idea had been forum focused I was thinking more from in-game focus, but the idea is about the same. Players play arcs and provide feedback.

Me too. I didn't think it was server specific. If we're soloing, it can't be, can it?

Eco.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

Arcs are global. No need to worry about server unless you're trying to team up with someone. Team feedback can potentially be far different than solo.

Let's bring the focus back to the arc, and anyone else that gets a chance to play it. Discussion is good, but I don't want this to devolve into a shouting match, so please drop it you two.

Just played the arc this afternoon. I'm reserving this space for more detailed feedback, but I'll post a quick summary for now (And now I've had the time - so the more detailed feedback is posted below...).

The good: I don't think there's any problem with the basic idea for the story. In that respect the arc's got a good start; there just needs to be more development. Also, it's obvious that thought and time have gone into this.

The bad: The arc feels like an 'outline' rather than the finished product. I really felt like I was playing something that was in the very early stages of design, and needed a full fledged rough draft, followed by several revisions. I'm talking lots of proofreading, and some major revision of the clues. In my opinion, what this arc needs is DETAIL and polish.

Okay ... now for the more detailed stuff. You probably don't need to be told this, but keep in mind these are just my impressions and opinions; use what you can, discard what you can't.

The mission briefings look like effort has been put into them, but the writing needs a few revision pass throughs. The phrasing is stilted (more than I’d expect from a portrayal of a Midnighter addressing me in a formal way – it really reads more awkward, than actually formal) and there are a lot of typos (most are punctuation errors, with a lot of issues where pronouns are used when it should be a contraction instead). Some odd choices for color, I’d recommend using paler colors (pale green, pale blue, yellow) just to aid with readability.

I've noticed a *lot* of places where 'Nemesis' should be capitalized... You may hate the idea, but you really do need to carefully read over all of the text in the arc (ALL of it!!!) and check for things like this.

The missions themselves are straightforward and simple, which is really neither good nor bad. A lot more effort needs to go into how the objectives are arranged in the mission (better use of front, middle, and back to order things in the mission the way the objective text suggests); also, I’d suggest more effort aimed at pulling multiple objectives into a single plural objective (e.g. “3 Computer to access”, rather than “Access the First Computer, Access the Second…” and so on). Map choices were a bit off too in the first half of the arc; they didn’t seem to fit what was going on that well. It was especially noticeable in the second mission: why would the Nemesis lab developing all this tech be so run-down?

I think it’s completely appropriate to place clues where they were placed, but more variation in what they say would be good. Basically, put more effort put into having them advance the story; they’re closer to ‘play calling’ right now: they’re not so much being used to actually tell the story by clarifying things that I didn’t already know as they are being used to give me slightly more detailed updates on what I’ve just accomplished. Here’s an example based on all of the clues about the power cores: Instead of repeating a rather generic: “You’ve defeated this Nemesis robot and ripped out his power core.” Try to just dream up some very specific variations to put in each core. “Hmm … this one’s got a strange coil in it that seems to be gathering a lot of charge.” “Odd, the pistons here look much too small for a steam engine, yet, somehow, the thing does seem to be steam powered.”

The story’s got a good start, but it feels more like an outline at this point that needs a lot of fleshing out. The basic idea is sound: Nemesis is trying to upgrade his robot army by incorporating upgraded designs from the other villain groups – and modifying them with his most advanced technology. He’s then going to use them for a massive invasion of Grandville. But, in my opinion, the thing that makes a story come alive are the little details – the “fleshing out” I was referring to earlier. Why Grandville? Why the heck are Necrotech Master and Eliminater XXXXX (whatever) having such a hate-on for Recluse? Granted, I know they are there to help defeat the AVs, but there’s got to be a way to more realistically insert them into the story. The whole time travel aspect of the story seemed almost tacked on – or perhaps it was just ‘watching the timelines for trouble.’ Frankly, the story would have worked perfectly well with almost any level appropriate contact, and no mention of time travel, or time manipulation, or whatever.

The custom mobs really make their entrance in the final mission, but why do they look so random? There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to their design… more like the author selected one of the costume presets and then recolored it. Also, the re-purposed robot mobs (from Malta and the Council) really should have something other than the default descriptions – there are a lot of avenues to take here, but one would be to put ‘clues’ to something odd going on in the descriptions: “Does that Malta Titan have jets of steam coming out of the seams between its armor plates?”

The effort and potential are there, but the technicals need a lot of work – a LOT of work. I’ll be honest – when I played it, my impression was ‘meh’, you’ve got an idea to start with, but just about everything needs more fleshing out – more attention to detail. And, frankly, more variation (especially in what the clues say). I felt like I was playing an outline – one where some work would make it a good story, but for now there’s a lot missing.

OH! And one final observation. Why the heck does Necrotech Master actually summon ninjas?! I mean, I figure he's just one of your characters making a cameo in the arc, and the 'real' version must be a Ninja MM. But I can tell you, the ninja thing just threw me. I figured he should be summoning zombies. Zombies re-animated by technology. Which means he'll also have lots of nasty trinkets at his disposal (which he might have, but I was too floored by 'why the heck is he summoning ninjas?' to notice).

Yes, yes, I realize it's probably a reference to 'dealing death' rather than 'animating the dead.' But still, I'd imagine I'm not the only one who'll wonder about that one when playing the arc. Two solutions: make him summon zombies (it's not like he really has to be your character), or, if you hate that idea (and I can understand that), at least expand his description to explain why anything named 'Necro' isn't 'Necro.'

Score: 2.67 (I'm using the exact same scoring system as I do for the Pro Payne thread. Makes it look like I'm being all objective. I'm not. It's totally subjective. So take it with a small NaCl boulder.) I didn't give the arc an in-game rating (it needs to break the 3.0 barrier so that I can at least give it 4 stars in game).

Just played Another Nemesis Plot.

Here's the breakdown (in the infamous red ink pen of doom in my notes, as I'm an English teacher, myself).

I ran this on Tubbius, a Santa Claus lookalike who's a level 50 Plant/Empath/Ice Controller. MrCaptainMan there knows him well! Hi, MCM!

General Notes:
* Pro: I didn't have to pop an inspiration until Mission 3. The difficulty ramped up considerably in the final room of that mission, though. Missions 4 and 5 were also considerably simple runs.
* Pro: The basic premise of a story involving a hero's journey to epicness is here. It's a little rough overall, though.
* Con: There are numerous spelling, capitalization, and punctuation typos throughout the arc, particularly on the name of the group "Nemesis."
* Con: It feels a little like there's too much trying to happen here with the various enemy groups. A little more on this later.
* Con: I'm thinking the final mission might be bugged. I found Statesman and Recluse, and I found the Flier, and I eliminated everyone ELSE but the fire it wouldn't let me attack. . . but I never found the boss. I had to drop the mission. MAYBE it's something about how everything spawns on the map?

Mission 1:
* Pros (Overall): Simple and easy to run first mission. Straightforward. Tubby and his pet Planty had no problems. A fun, easygoing beat 'em up.
* Cons (Spawns): The computers, Statesman, and the boss all spawn a bit out of order; this might be able to be better controlled with a little more careful map selection and placement. For instance, the third computer spawned first, then the first, then the second, then the boss, and THEN Statesman.
* Cons (Clues): After playing through up to later missions, I understand your attempt to tie the power sources back in. At this point, though, the clue on the first computer--about the parts specifically lacking a power source--seems a bit out of place, especially if you're dealing with characters who might not have the technical background needed to know or care about such information. Also, the mission contact seems to overlook this apparently crucial detail (a detail explored more, to an extent, in mission 2 with the mention of the steam-powered, compact power sources.)

Mission 2:
* Pros (Overall): Another short mission that's straightforward and simple. Nemesis goons aren't too hard overall.
* Cons (Intro text): Statesman's help is mentioned explicitly in the intro text, but Statesman himself never makes another appearance until Mission 5, at which point he's captive. This is slightly misleading.
* Cons (Overall, but tied to Mission 1 Clue): There's nothing obviously tied to the Rikti in this mission. They're mentioned in one of the Mission 1 Clues, and they come up again later when power sources are again discussed (in terms of flying equipment), but they're generally very minimal. PERHAPS eliminating the Rikti segment altogether can help you focus more strongly on the already reasonably well-woven Council and Nemesis subsets.

Mission 3:
* Pros (Overall): A VERY fun map initially, and very different from most else in the game. Very linear, meaning objective placement should be a snap. A definite challenge for even an experienced player once you're in the big room.
* Cons (Overall): No range or Flight? You're facing a VERY big drawback in the last, big room with all the Pop-Up Guns, the bosses, and the catwalks. Luckily, Tubbius flies, and he has plenty of ranged options, but I can see a Scrapper or Tank having a beast of a time with this. Also, even with Flight, I had a couple times where I had to turn that off to control myself better, at which times I was knocked off the catwalks, leading to triggering 3 of the bosses all at one go! Very dangerous. Tubby was in serious trouble for a few moments before I could get back upright and mobile.

Mission 4:
* Pros (Allies): Mastermind buddies make all things easier!
* Pros (Overall): Another straightforward throwdown.
* Cons (Allies): I honestly don't know what the other ally does. There were Ninja everywhere!
* Cons (Background Lore): I know we can create our own stories with this, but the idea of challenging Lord Recluse one on one without prior preparation seems to fly in the face of COV's entire setup where your villain builds up over time and is ultimately deemed worthy to even scrape for the high muckamucks. Maybe I'm reading too much into this.
* Cons (Clues): No Clues given on Rescues.

Mission 5:
* Pros (Overall): Pretty linear despite the sprawling map choice. You can choose to go down and forward. Spawns are few and far between, so it's easy to focus on one group or target at a time. You can safely circle around and find Recluse and Statesman first if you like.
* Cons (Overall): Potentially bugged spawns or map selection. See notes at the top of this post. Map fails to display, probably a result of the map choice in particular. Also, Statesman has trouble, especially, navigating the rocks.
* Cons (Intro text): Dark purple text can be crazy hard to read at first, a problem made all the more apparent by this being crucial storyline info.
* Cons (Arachnos Flier): A potential stray shot will rain unholy amounts of PAIN down on you fast and will potentially slaughter the helpers.
* Cons (Background Lore): Having troops with containment fields capture Recluse and Statesman simultaneously really doesn't speak well for their respective power levels. Maybe this can be tweaked to use the combat animations where they're pretending to duke it out with someone when you run up?

Here's hoping that gives you a good go at feedback, sir! Overall, I gave it 4 stars: I see potential here, and it's trying to get that "epic" feel by showcasing the character over Recluse and Statesman in the long run, but it's not QUITE connecting all the dots directly. Keep going! You can definitely do this!

much appreciated on the feedback, i think i know how the mish 5 map might be bugged

there is one spawn spot in which i think nemesis can spawn inside a rock, and there may have been some bugs with the objective chaining so i was trying to cut down on that

i can change the purple text on the dialogue, as i just wanted it to stand out and make sure that poeple were aware that there was a dangerous enemy there

edit: i think the grandville beach map has been a little buggy for awhile now, but thats the only map that will fit the purpose i was going for, and it doesnt bug all the time either, very randomly

edit2: for all who dont know, the map in the 3rd mish is from the last mish of the hess tf, and to answer tubbius question about the 2nd ally in the recluse mish, hes an ss/wp brute (hes supposed to be helping to hold aggro from recluse if your a squishy but that doesnt always work as intended so hes more of an extra dmg dealer)