Blaster Secondary Idea: Earthen Manipulation
By
Angelofvalor,
Posted on: 2010-10-22 02:21 in Blasters
Hmm...not really a bad thought...tho some minor issues with it...
1. Stone Cages: I'm sure you meant Stone Cage as Cages is the AoE version. Good, standard tier one.
2. Stone Fist: Yup..could go with this.
3. Stone Mallet: Might be a wee bit early for the second melee attack...but good choice.
4. Quicksand: Eeeehhhh...unless it was made a LOT smaller than the troller version of this power a la Ice Patch, i'd have to say no. And even then, for what QSand does, a micro version would almost not be worth it. Maybe a ST Version of Stalagmite.
5. Build Up: No complaints here.
6. Heavy Mallet: HM Is a good, solid attack with great damage dealing potential, but with having tremor at level 32 might skew the "normal" melee range attack ratio as compared to most of the other sets. I'd suggest either replacing it with Tremor at this level or swapping them.
7. Fault/Fissure: Fault and Fissure are similar, yet different powers. Fault does no damage, only KD and Stun. Fissure does this AND damage. Just a little FYI. Now, the problem i see with this one is the AoE control aspect, both hard and soft (stun and KD respectively) which is pretty much a no-go for blaster secondaries. I'd suggest swapping this out for Power Boost.
8. Mud Pots: No particular issues with this one...
9. Tremor: I've got 2 problems with this one. One, is that unless they gave this a signifigant boost, this would be a crap-tastic tier 9 power. It's a pbaoe that does roughly the same damage as stone fist to whatever it hits. To wade thru 32 levels only to have THAT greet me would honestly disappoint me to no end. See my remark for Heavy Mallet. Either swap these two powers...or move this to HM's slot and replace Tremor with Seismic Smash (although i'd reduce the hold mag). Personally i'd do the latter.
RaikenX is currently seeking new quotes to add to his signature.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
::looks at RaikenX's signature::
Something funny. |
No seismic smash. Why play an earth set that has melee and no SMASH?
Also, it is VERY melee oriented for a blaster secondary, I would add stone spears in somewhere.
And as much as I love the power, Fissure might be too powerful here on blaster damage mods.
To be quite honest we need a pure ranged secondary, and if anything we would need an earth blast to go with it, even though you can change colors of powers there wouldnt be any earth/earth concept going on, but who would not want to be an earth bender?
They should add earth armor in there somewhere if they wont give us a pure ranged secondary maybe some nice defense for a blaster would be nice.
I would love to make an earth bender.
Earth Manipulation exists - you just need to build your blaster in the Rogue Isles, where they are called Dominators instead. I know my Fire/Earth blapper gets the job done in style.
Rule number six of an empathy defender is NEVER underestimate a blaster's ability to die. I don't care if he has CM, Fort, both RAs, bubbles (both FF and Sonic), and is fighting next to a Storm defender with hurricane on. If there is a way to die in that situation, the blaster will find it.
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Clever but not the point. Blasters -need- more secondaries. I for one am honestly bored of the ones they have. I can think of many non pure(earth/earth/earth) builds I would love to do on a blaster.
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Originally Posted by Doctor_Kumquat
Earth Manipulation exists - you just need to build your blaster in the Rogue Isles, where they are called Dominators instead. I know my Fire/Earth blapper gets the job done in style.
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Well, that is the issue, really, that Blasters would have a Secondary with no corresponding Primary. Stone Spears is a ranged attack, it belongs in Earthen Blast.|
Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
Also, it is VERY melee oriented for a blaster secondary, I would add stone spears in somewhere.
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The problem with Earth Assault demonstrates the problem we would have with an Earth Blast set. The animation times on those powers are all VERY long. You basically have three basic concepts for a ranged earth attack:
1) You rip out a chunk of rock and throw it
2) You gesture, levitating a chunk of rock, and throw it
3) The attack travels through the ground and "erupts" under the foe's feet
The latter, I think, is where we are going with Stone Spears, and I think it's probably the best way to go with the concept. Even so, they're pretty slow animations, Stone Spears is essentially Foot Stomp, and Hurl Boulder is a little longer, although it's not as bad as it used to be. A Ranged set made up of attacks that all have more than 2 second animation time, though, I'm afraid would be unplayable.
What I'm hoping is that we can get a "fling pebbles" kind of animation, which is the second concept, but somewhat faster than what the Legacy Chain is currently able to do. Basically instead of bending down to pick something up or strike the ground, you would basically just gesture, and the ground would leap up and fly at the target. The problem is making that look good without either having the attack flying at the level of the foe's feet, or taking so long to rise to arm level that it slows the attack down. Unfortunately a diagonal path from the ground to the target doesn't seem possible.
A better solution is probably a gesture, and then the pebbles fly UP from underneath the target. Or a rolling type of motion, where the ground comes up and swallows him. AoE type attacks could combine spikes with cracks and splits as with Fault/Fissure.
I always imagine Earthen Blast being something like that. Some powers would float up around the player and quickly fly towards the target. Others would be something similar to stone fists. Earth forms around the fore-arms, but instead of smashing at melee range... the player swings his arms forward, the rocks break off his arms and are flung at the target.
Heck, even the Hammers could be made distance attacks... just have the hammer form in their arms like always, but have the power animate like the player is throwing the hammer. lol.
Just look at sandman powers from spiderman sure its sand but you can do something similar, wow now that I think of it sand blasting would be fun to. But to be honest id much rather see an earth blast set taken from the avatar series I do not know if you guys watch it, its animated but earth benders wow wow, they have amazing offensive abilities and amazing defensive abilities, in the end it earth secondary would be a very defensive set but to balance it out from being to much melee maybe some of the powers have to root you in place or something along those lines. Why throw rocks when you can shoot them out of your hands? Ele shoots out of there hands, ice shoots out of the hands need I say more?
I could see a stomp on the ground animation and lifting rocks in the air and shooting them towards your enemy.
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Blasters won't be getting Mud Pots. |
Originally Posted by Succulent_Abyss
Tier 8: Mud Pots
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I can explain why. The existence of Oppressive Gloom in Soul Mastery would give them the equivalent of an AoE hold in toggle powers. It would only affect minions, that much is true, but you could run at x8 and not be in any real danger from anything but LTs (which most blasters can kill quickly if they focus on them)
Mud Pots is a damage aura and also an AoE immobilize. Combine that with Oppressive Gloom and you have a power combination that removes minions from the equation completely. Pair it with something like Ice, which has 2 single target holds in it (which will mez LTs in one application) and you have WAY more mitigation than the devs are ever going to allow a blaster access to.
You can do the same thing with the AoE immobilizes in Patron Pools, but that wouldn't be as reliable as having the same ability in two toggles. Run Stealth and hop into a crowd, and bam, instant removal of any threat from minions before they even realize you are there. At least with the AoE immobilizes there is a small chance of you not getting it off in time, or not making it into the mob to stun them.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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/Mental and /Ice both get their second melee attack then.|
Originally Posted by RaikenX
3. Stone Mallet: Might be a wee bit early for the second melee attack...but good choice.
4. Quicksand: Eeeehhhh...unless it was made a LOT smaller than the troller version of this power a la Ice Patch, i'd have to say no. And even then, for what QSand does, a micro version would almost not be worth it. Maybe a ST Version of Stalagmite. |
I don't think Quick Sand from the Tanker epic would be too bad at all. Tankers do get the same Ice Patch, too.
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Originally Posted by RaikenX
9. Tremor: I've got 2 problems with this one. One, is that unless they gave this a signifigant boost, this would be a crap-tastic tier 9 power. It's a pbaoe that does roughly the same damage as stone fist to whatever it hits. To wade thru 32 levels only to have THAT greet me would honestly disappoint me to no end. See my remark for Heavy Mallet. Either swap these two powers...or move this to HM's slot and replace Tremor with Seismic Smash (although i'd reduce the hold mag). Personally i'd do the latter.
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I like the idea and would like to see an Earth Blast primary and Earth mastery ancillary! The lack of thematic pairs is the only problem I see off hand, but as you said we're on Blaster secondaries and there's not much in the way of obvious themes.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
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Precisely, I mean there's already Sonic, and Radiation that have no obvious secondary option. Having a secondary with no obvious primary to go with it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
I like the idea and would like to see an Earth Blast primary and Earth mastery ancillary! The lack of thematic pairs is the only problem I see off hand, but as you said we're on Blaster secondaries and there's not much in the way of obvious themes.
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I simply want to see more secondaries for Blasters, because I am so so so tired of the /Energy and /Devices as the only obvious secondaries with a lot of the non elemental primaries. Especially with the weapon sets.
I like it but I so want a Gravity Blast set first!
I even have a vision of the nuke: suck up all the enemies in a 25 radius and teleport them to a centerpoint where they all collide under massive pressure.
EDIT: I too see no issue with Quicksand. The power originates in Earth Control and is more or less analogous to Shiver from the Ice Control set, which Blasters already have.
If blasters are getting a Earth secondary and not a Earth primary there are certain Iconic powers I'd like to see get used. They look awesome on my earth/earth dom.
Stone Spears as the tier one. Its an 80ft ranged knockup attack. Tier ones for blasters are normally immobilizes with 40 ft range. The range and damage could be lowered to be more inline with the other tier ones. Also I'd love to have a way to control that Rikti boss that just held other then give him knockback protection with my immobilize.
Stalagmite single target of course, the troller version is one of my favorite powers in the game. Stomp you're foot and the ground erupts around under your enemies. Earth Control can be a very visually intensive set, Stalagmites looks as powerful as any other power in Earth Control but it does it without killing your framerate.
Heavy Mallet well one of the mallets. With power customization the mallets can be lave, stone, glass or ice. Having a power pick that also doubles as a costume piece is a plus in my eyes.
Quicksand Earth Control has so many drop powers it would be nice to duplicate that in a Earth Secondary, in a very same amount of course. If the effects of quicksand are a little to controlly maybe turning turning Mud Pots into a location drop. A little damage, soft control and it would be a little more like Caltrops and less like Ice Patch.
Power Boost but not the same Power Boosts we already have. What are there, 3 or 4 different Power Boosts? The Earth Assualt PB is great, on my Dom but I wouldn't want to loss the damage in PB if it is going to be a BU replacement. Most blaster blast sets have a secondary effect and access to some holds and stuns. This PB would grant a bonus to those secondary effects and a slight duration to stuns and holds. At the same time a pretty good tohit buff and maybe an Aim level damage bonus.
Foot Stomp may sound confusing but take the stats of Tremor and give it the animation and cast time of Foot Stomp and thats what I'm thinking about.
T1: Stone Spears
T2: Stone Mallet
T3: Stone Fists
T4: Quicksand
T5: Power Boost
T6: Smoke (running out of ideas)
T7: Stalagmite
T8: Heavy Mallet
T9: Foot Stomp
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I fully agree on Stone Spears. It's an awesome power but would of course fit in better with a ranged set. That being said I see no reason it couldn't be in this set if no primary were to be created.|
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
If blasters are getting a Earth secondary and not a Earth primary there are certain Iconic powers I'd like to see get used. They look awesome on my earth/earth dom.
T1: Stone Spears T7: Stalagmite T5: Power Boost T6: Smoke (running out of ideas) T9: Foot Stomp |
Stalagmites, no way it will happen. At least not and do damage. It is way too good of a stun for a blaster.
Power Boost is possible but so far it seems like that has been a /energy only thing for blasters. Plus it would only effect Stone Cage, Fault/Fissure, and Quicksand. Seems wasteful to me. (not counting primary powers)
Smoke and Foot Stomp. Both are good powers but neither are /Earth. Tremor is more fitting to the theme and honestly I get tired of stomping my foot. Ice does it, SS does it, PB's do it. Tremor may have the same old Total Focus animation but I see that less than I do stomps personally.
I've had an issue with the low number of blaster secondaries available for the longest time and looking into it the only real secondary possibilities without something completely new are Dark, Kinetic, Stone, & Martial arts/Super Strength. As I see it though Dark is unlikely because of high mitigation & MA/SS b/c it seems a bit odd as a blaster set to me.
So it popped into my head what would/could be in /Earth on a blaster. This is what I came up with. They'd work just like the original versions with of course adjusted numbers and effects to balance with other blaster sets. But i know I personally would kill for something NEW to use as a secondary.
Tier 1: Stone Cage
Tier 2: Stone Fists(or Stone Spears)
Tier 3: Stone Mallet
Tier 4: Quicksand
Tier 5: Build Up
Tier 6: Heavy Mallet
Tier 7: Fault(or Fissure)
Tier 8: Mud Pots
Tier 9: Tremor
Lemme know what you think. I'm just spit ballin here out of boredom and deep seated desire for more secondaries.
Edit: Changes cages to cage as it was meant to be. Added Stone Spears as option for tier 2.