Quote:
I cannot support these statements enough.|
Originally Posted by Werner
I do STRONGLY support what you say about DPS being only one measure, and a typically overused measure of damage output. In regular play (whatever that is), DPS is not what matters. AoE is king, and burst is queen.
That said, I abide by my DPS chain in actual play. My recharge rates are generally carefully tailored, and I've trimmed out all other single-target attacks. If I'm attacking a group, I'll use any AoEs I have, assuming I even have AoEs, as frequently as possible. But other than that, it's the DPS chain, because to do otherwise is to simply skip attacks, wait for preferred attacks to recharge, and simply do damage more slowly. This may not be the case with most people's builds, as most people take more attacks than I do (such as Arcanaville in this example). But I'm a minimalist when it comes to attacks, so the resulting toon is "stuck" using the DPS chain only. Another thing to note is that I rarely fight whites on a mature toon. I'm often fighting as much uplevel as I can, quite often +4x8. I'm not going to burst my way through anything. The time it takes is well into the DPS realm, and I'm going to be using my DPS chain, and for quite a while. |
I do not min/max, study intense builds at length, or do serious analysis as has been talked about here (and elsewhere) - mostly because I know from past experience elsewhere that once I start down such a path I would become good friends with madness and obsession. I do read and learn casually from these discussion, however.
But more importantly, I feel the truth in Werner's comments from hours of play. I *know* when which character can do what, with what power mix and it fits the description here very, very nicely.
(Oh, and for the record, I will gleefully argue about nearly anything just for fun. but after years of reading these boards, I have learned to generally take Aracanaville, Werner, and Bill's comments to heart purely on demonstrated reputation.)
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Quote:
You're "one of the most recognized min/maxers" on the forums and you don't know what my opinion on optimized attack chains is?|
Originally Posted by kamikrazy
You have the same weakness that many people on these boards (and in game) exhibit. It's that once you have a strong chain that is governed by animation time you feel that additional recharge isn't of much value.
|
The statement "more recharge is always better" isn't actually always true for a variety of reasons having to do with how attacks work in CoH on a fundamental level. But it does help even in situations where it might not improve the optimal attack chain, in circumstances where the optimal attack chain isn't the governing factors. I've said that many times. But optimized attack chains are still the recognized proxy for offensive comparison, which is why I posted one. Any min/maxer on these forums would know this.
Most of them would also know that only two posters on the forums has ever seriously attempted to make a metric that attempted to capture a non-optimized attack chain metric of offense that specifically attempted to target valuing recharge in a non-standard way, and you're talking to one of them (PeakDR). Since its not generally accepted, I didn't post PeakDR comparisons.
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Quote:
That was the intent anyway. I honestly didn't think that in the scrapper forum of all places there'd be a lot of controversy about what the One True Goal of Min/Maxing would be or that there would be people out there in 2010 telling me to lrn2ply.|
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
And here I am thinking this would be a fun little exercise...............
|
I keep forgetting the two unwritten rules of the forums:
1. Arcana is not allowed to demonstrate a sense of humor without ample warning.
2. Arcana is not allowed to post numbers and ask questions in the same post.
For some reason, both of these pretty consistently get me into trouble.
Quote:
|
Arc, not sure if you missed it or not, but both builds I posted don't have inherent fitness |
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Here is my attempt at a build without inherent Stamina. Mids does not seem to play nice when mixing the PvP defense IOs with other types of defense IOs. Therefore, I cannot be sure of my defense values. It seems like I am over the soft cap, but that may not be true to how it may be calculating things. All in all, I do not think the jump from this build to a post I19 build is all that large. Definitely nice, but not amazing.
I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to MA or SR. Not a fan of either set, so my play experience is very limited. I may have made some terrible error. It makes me twitch not to two slot PB with recharge, but I guess it is unneeded generally.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Medicine
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(5), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Mako-Dam%(40)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- SW-Def/EndRdx(A), SW-Def(7), SW-ResDam/Re TP(11), S'dpty-Def(11), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 2: Cobra Strike -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(5), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), T'Death-Dam%(46)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- SW-Def/EndRdx(A), SW-Def(7), SW-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(37), S'dpty-Def(42)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Focus Chi -- GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(13), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(15)
Level 14: Health -- RgnTis-Regen+(A), Numna-Heal(37), Numna-Heal/Rchg(43), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(48), Mrcl-Heal(48), Mrcl-Rcvry+(48)
Level 16: Dodge -- SW-Def(A), SW-Def/EndRdx(17), SW-Def/Rchg(17), S'dpty-Def(37), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(42), Ksmt-ToHit+(50)
Level 18: Crippling Axe Kick -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(19), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21)
Level 22: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(25), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(25), ImpArm-ResDam(40), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 26: Dragon's Tail -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(27), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(27), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Sciroc-Dam%(46)
Level 28: Lucky -- SW-Def(A), SW-Def/Rchg(29), SW-Def/EndRdx(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40)
Level 30: Agile -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(31), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 32: Eagles Claw -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Evasion -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(36), S'dpty-Def(36), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Weave -- SW-Def/EndRdx(A), SW-Def(39), SW-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), LkGmblr-Rchg+(39)
Level 41: Aid Other -- Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Numna-Heal/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(45), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(45), IntRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-End%(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 2: Ninja Run
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1464;726;1452;HEX;| |78DA85534B531341109E4D362C813CC5C823848467C223013CF9A8D252112B68302| |4C84181B8840156B702955D90E8C51FE0C90358A51CC5DF60F9DB34F663922ACCC1| |ADE4FB667ABEEEE9EE99299C2E0584F8785F68A147B6E9389572B56E1E1DC9BAB16| |ABAC775D316861022DEB2560AD296325730EBAE65DA950775D749B6D796E49EAC39| |32573EC65949EED9F2543AD17CED40D665CDCDB50681E2E1A19D5BB6DC9A749CA09| |AEC1FB8566D9F6705B96B55AD9A8CD22C5F3BB11C6BC7B22DB7117D7C6455730F0F| |771B9582E9B8B2DE1880F4A6E17F8679D2D7F4893DA045E1D927D20F88BA2DA2913| |744E9B74405F4D294D7B2174D5D2B443D4F993CB09A16D37F04D2624C43E3B9A19C| |C04B7B492B9E5744FA2651F71651689B285B215A052F2FEFA57BAFEC15C8134DF02| |6D3BC6517C87D2C17BE0C65AB8189CB6C0AA3099F28C2D4AF44FE59127D01532F8B| |3CBDDF3D14FF9228F483C8004150D51CBC07838498784175CD9489E63798F294C7F| |C0AD11A7885955798D38E701191279CFDD54EFD1618F82B784539193DFA9AF2BBB6| |C35425BAB1CB24F98C40DEC79B78FACE29DBEB9F99CE884A2088A97A6359F2F182A| |95FB5B5BF9FCA19B849190D4C5046E90CD14C9AE81BC807D5D90D9E5084A153A606| |D1E87BA67744D90F4465F08AF326DE38573FCC650F7313D27C339E832EA17409EEC| |408F76544E32C587701BAA4EA4B92FB92E2BEA4B82F29EECB28F7651DE4632AEC18| |4718E7E8E31C7D9CA3EBA09B54BA494E6C8AB39DE22B36C5CE09D065D41DC994C89| |45D275AE42B9004C12C0BBCB36C9A5B6362DD5C9CFB025173EA46E6F8FE5D068558| |5047B4C06738ACB7DF26FCF0DE3EEBB014F5F69B121A59927AFB6D36FD91F6EA7F3| |E9FF16FE4AE0E8BD161E9EEB050B09F81560AFE520FE03A421140DBC0D126C2164E| |B77164E26807A18AD3E6AF402B68F816D6721BE10EC25D8418D4243EA1D2C0F7DA8| |B104008228410C20811843E8421840B84E65F4BE4F9DF| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
Mine too. But its about as fast as fast goes for MA/SR: its reaching the limits of the invention system's recharge buffs and also starting to asymptotically approach the recharge cap, and running into diminishing returns on recharge due to cast time. But it does illustrate what is probably the best attack chain possible with MA using just the MA attacks: SK/CAK/SK/CS. I don't think that's compressible because there's no way to reduce CAK or CS's recharge down to SK's ArcanaTime duration even at the recharge cap. Under *ideal* circumstances the build can get close to 190dps. So anything that can consistently do near that under non-deal conditions is probably doing ok on the offensive front, because there's just not that much more offense to squeeze out of MA.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Cyclones
Tha build is sacrificing too much survivability and sustainability for what the player would gaining in recharge from my view.
|
The normal methodology for attempting to min/max single target damage output has always had a nagging flaw to me, and that is that optimized attack chains are easily disrupted by a variety of factors. Some of them are so optimized that they cannot even account for switching targets without inducing sizable disruption to them. Some have ramp-up costs that are incurred on spawn switching. Some are brittle against recharge debuffing.
Having as many single target attacks as my original build above provides a buffer to many of those effects. Rather than just in time attacking, there's usually multiple powers approaching recharge-ready in rapid succession. Gaps open under recharge but usually in a less dramatic fashion. Having EC means it can be used to boost critical on DT when DT is used a lot and its impact on single target chains when used is minimal.
To be honest, in the back of my mind I'm also thinking about flexibility when it comes to slotting Alpha. Based solely on the information from the beta test that is no longer embargoed, this build easily benefits from three of the four Alphas (focusing either on Damage/Recovery, Recharge/Regen, or to a lesser extend End/Resistance). In the traditional ironic kick to the teeth that SR often gets out of game enhancements, I think it won't be as worth it to go Accuracy/Defense.
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Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Trying to make sure I read and examine everyone's posted alternate build carefully, so its taking a bit of time to get through them.
This one seems to be another example of trading a little bit of regen for endurance, although this one doesn't sacrifice regeneration itself but just a tiny bit of health. And it loses a little positional defense, but not too much. Its an interesting trade. Question: what do you think the extra recharge brings to the table? Do you have a feel for how much improvement it might make to the build overall? Also, do you think the gain in recharge and damage strength in Storm Kick compensates for the loss of the damage proc overall? Ok, that's three questions. |
DT is back up 2.5s faster in mine than yours which will allow for more mitigation from the KD and will do more AoE damage over time than the way you have it slotted.
CS is recharging almost a second and half faster doing more damage over time at a cost of more end though.
Storm is roughly equivalent in terms of end use and recharge, and is spammable in both builds which can be advantageous with your highest DPA attack.
Back of the envelope math using your preferred chain in my build should be 179 DPS figuring in procs, crits and global damage. Not too shabby.
Cheers
[B] GUARDIAN 50s:[/B] [B]Tank[/B]: Ice/Fire, Fire/Fire, DA/SS, Inv/WM, SD/Elec...[B]Scrap[/B]: BS/Reg, Spin/DA, DM/SD, Fire/WP, Claws/SR....[B]Troller[/B]: Ill/Rad, Fire/Kin...[B]Blaster[/B]: Fire/EM....[B]Defender[/B]: D3...[B]Brute[/B]: Elm/ElA...[B]EPIC[/B]: Widow, PB, Crab...CURRENTLY: 45 Stone/Stone Tank...38 AR/Rad Corr...21 Ice^3 Dom
.... I completely forgot the recharge alpha also did regen... heh... heheheheh...
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
Actually, except for the PvPIOs and swapping CS for CK, it looks kinda like my current build. Not exactly, but similar in many ways.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Here is my attempt at a build without inherent Stamina. Mids does not seem to play nice when mixing the PvP defense IOs with other types of defense IOs. Therefore, I cannot be sure of my defense values. It seems like I am over the soft cap, but that may not be true to how it may be calculating things. All in all, I do not think the jump from this build to a post I19 build is all that large. Definitely nice, but not amazing.
|
One thing your build reminds me is that the performance shifter isn't unique (although Santorican's build also exploits that fact also and I just didn't notice it). It nets to about 0.2 eps that Mids currently doesn't recognize. If I'm willing to knock out 25.1 health and 0.4 h/s of regeneration, I could swap one into PP and get another 0.2 eps. That would put my net endurance after toggles at 2.85 eps while tough is running and 3.12 eps when Tough is off. That's starting to get interesting.
Quote:
| It makes me twitch not to two slot PB with recharge, but I guess it is unneeded generally. |
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Quote:
Oh yes, I think it makes all the sense in the world to be looking at these builds with an eye toward alpha slot and those foci would be excellent choices. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Mine too. But its about as fast as fast goes for MA/SR: its reaching the limits of the invention system's recharge buffs and also starting to asymptotically approach the recharge cap, and running into diminishing returns on recharge due to cast time. But it does illustrate what is probably the best attack chain possible with MA using just the MA attacks: SK/CAK/SK/CS. I don't think that's compressible because there's no way to reduce CAK or CS's recharge down to SK's ArcanaTime duration even at the recharge cap. Under *ideal* circumstances the build can get close to 190dps. So anything that can consistently do near that under non-deal conditions is probably doing ok on the offensive front, because there's just not that much more offense to squeeze out of MA.
The normal methodology for attempting to min/max single target damage output has always had a nagging flaw to me, and that is that optimized attack chains are easily disrupted by a variety of factors. Some of them are so optimized that they cannot even account for switching targets without inducing sizable disruption to them. Some have ramp-up costs that are incurred on spawn switching. Some are brittle against recharge debuffing. Having as many single target attacks as my original build above provides a buffer to many of those effects. Rather than just in time attacking, there's usually multiple powers approaching recharge-ready in rapid succession. Gaps open under recharge but usually in a less dramatic fashion. Having EC means it can be used to boost critical on DT when DT is used a lot and its impact on single target chains when used is minimal. To be honest, in the back of my mind I'm also thinking about flexibility when it comes to slotting Alpha. Based solely on the information from the beta test that is no longer embargoed, this build easily benefits from three of the four Alphas (focusing either on Damage/Recovery, Recharge/Regen, or to a lesser extend End/Resistance). In the traditional ironic kick to the teeth that SR often gets out of game enhancements, I think it won't be as worth it to go Accuracy/Defense. |
I think we're demonstrating here that MA as a primary, when coupled with SR, just isn't going to benefit nearly as a greatly as some other primaries from very very high recharge, and therefore, it wastes resources (that SR greatly benefits from using in health/regen areas) in attempting to push toward the theoretical limits of recharge.
Fun exercise. Thanks for playing.
Cheers
[B] GUARDIAN 50s:[/B] [B]Tank[/B]: Ice/Fire, Fire/Fire, DA/SS, Inv/WM, SD/Elec...[B]Scrap[/B]: BS/Reg, Spin/DA, DM/SD, Fire/WP, Claws/SR....[B]Troller[/B]: Ill/Rad, Fire/Kin...[B]Blaster[/B]: Fire/EM....[B]Defender[/B]: D3...[B]Brute[/B]: Elm/ElA...[B]EPIC[/B]: Widow, PB, Crab...CURRENTLY: 45 Stone/Stone Tank...38 AR/Rad Corr...21 Ice^3 Dom
Quote:
Rapid-fire Dragon's tail knockdown is, I will admit, one of the few things that tempts me to play a recharge-optimized build. The super-duper recharge build I posted has the cycle time of Dragon's Tail *approaching* the perma-knockdown mark (unfortunately I would need about +80% more recharge to hit it - just under the recharge cap actualy - and +80% more recharge just doesn't exist for the taking in the invention system). |
Originally Posted by Lord_Cyclones
DT is back up 2.5s faster in mine than yours which will allow for more mitigation from the KD and will do more AoE damage over time than the way you have it slotted.
|
But yours seems to have a recharge time of 5.139s according to Mids and mine has 5.44s recharge, a difference of only 0.3 seconds. Have I imported your build incorrectly?
Quote:
| CS is recharging almost a second and half faster doing more damage over time at a cost of more end though. |
Quote:
| Back of the envelope math using your preferred chain in my build should be 179 DPS figuring in procs, crits and global damage. Not too shabby. |
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Quote:
And (for secondaries that can use it, which SR isn't one of them) it also buffed +health (like regular Heal enhancements do too) and +heal. My DM/Regen is going to love the Alpha slot.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
.... I completely forgot the recharge alpha also did regen... heh... heheheheh...
|
Still, it will probably edge my hypothetical SR build close to 400% regen, and none of my powers are near the ED soft cap on recharge except dragon's tail. I could get close to the full +45% if the numbers remain unchanged from I18 beta except for DT. I'm thinking Spirituals (Rech/Heal) might end up being my "burst offensive stance" (increasing bursty damage and aid self) and Cardiac (End/Res) might end up being my "marathon stance" (increasing endurance management and Tough).
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Quote:
This one of yours shows DT coming back in 7.61s in the Mids version I am using, whereas the one I posted recharges in 5.14. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Ask and ye shall receive. Note that I built this in v1.8 with Leandro's patch. It *seems* to import correctly into 1.8.1 except the inherent powers don't display. The totals seem correct, you just literally can't see the inherent fitness powers in the slotting screen (they seem to show up in the active sets display when showing active invention sets).
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1480;747;1494;HEX;| |78DA8D535B53525114DE878B887215114509F08637407BEA32D55466616208E443A| |9CC11B772EA04CC014BEBA51FD053CD644DF998FD86A61F47EBB2C1667AE98CAE6F| |AFB5BFB5BEBD167BE74F563D42BCBF2334DF7D536FB52AA5AAA5379BD2726DEAED6| |34B37BDDB46C394ED44F1F8D5BE295D4288F12EA59297A69499BC6EB50DDDACDCB5| |DAAD786F6F551ECA7A4B664AC7E815E5A1294F642B98ABD7A425EBED4C77E129341| |A666643EA4DA37EE425272F0F8CAA5197ECAD1947B536ECF9BBC40369B56A4633F8| |A0695433F71A07A795BCDE6A4BEB74140E370FFF9FF194F4759CE2106045D88E186| |A040E83E10541DF4B823C666994E510EB760C0DAD110CE7181E122C3D26D804BAC6| |74BBC6F451A68F323DCAF433E0D9D561ECCF0052A2EF3941FF0EC32EC1C01E4385E| |0096439B9BACD69D33094E8D04E4223EF0B10B8CD8ECDF5D3864A9E1F0C170405D8| |757305E15EA40EBF4268501D6590E7E2E381F87812019E44E011404C0CE5084620C| |BAB8EE2ED27F16927C16C5843FA1610FC8AE067C288838109DF801054BA41D69D65| |C159964FB16E8A7553AC1B81AC106789D01C118A100AAB9EC2690AC520146196167| |94A72D912C177D81953AA63AF891C7D433071C2F096E0CA3B865B34B612648DAB66| |C687A9D0952041829B890321A60831165C60C18532C13910E24A37CEDD26B9DB247| |79BE46EA7B9DB69EEB60C5993EA3A4D06A8D014CB4F8518585E03DE8C9ACA4C940A| |D92134A752E74634AC369FA5BB371F61EF2A790EE02DAA932F72ED2556CA72ED32D| |032AA762649B52FBC422CAB9C65EE76658B819B9E70F4DE1AFCC12736FE89141CEA| |614144A348DCD17B6B1D77A0F740FEE7735E3E5321F80EF4FD1DE29BE2BA0C3985F| |A956ED330D27CEEF43ADDD06C8E60659B82FD975936F191EEC3D22782F419C0B0F8| |E5E912DCC501B065340530DA36AE76D0ECA2BB872B1D57FB68AAE8767E7BBA93F15| |FC3015C477303CD4D34611884F8804C17BED241341E345E343E347E340134213451| |34E7683A7F00AF5FE7DA| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |
Hmmmm...
EDIT: Yours in the chunk above shows CS recharging in 4.98 for me and mine is 3.67.
Are you using a different build than the one for that chunk? I am not sure why I am not matching on yours.
[B] GUARDIAN 50s:[/B] [B]Tank[/B]: Ice/Fire, Fire/Fire, DA/SS, Inv/WM, SD/Elec...[B]Scrap[/B]: BS/Reg, Spin/DA, DM/SD, Fire/WP, Claws/SR....[B]Troller[/B]: Ill/Rad, Fire/Kin...[B]Blaster[/B]: Fire/EM....[B]Defender[/B]: D3...[B]Brute[/B]: Elm/ElA...[B]EPIC[/B]: Widow, PB, Crab...CURRENTLY: 45 Stone/Stone Tank...38 AR/Rad Corr...21 Ice^3 Dom
Quote:
Duh. Alt slotting. I was playing around with Dragon's Tail and I had two slotting configurations in it. I was looking at one but exported the other. For the record, this is the alternate slotting I was looking at: it uses a full set of Armageddons in Dragon's tail, but in doing so it sacrifices some AoE defense: AoE drops to 45.1% with almost no margin for error on debuffing. But it picks up 10% global recharge and a much faster cycling DT. At the cost of some regen I could shift a slot from Aid Self to Lucky or Evasion to pick up a little more AoE defense to compensate. Sorry about the confusion.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Cyclones
This one of yours shows DT coming back in 7.61s in the Mids version I am using, whereas the one I posted recharges in 5.14.
Hmmmm... EDIT: Yours in the chunk above shows CS recharging in 4.98 for me and mine is 3.67. Are you using a different build than the one for that chunk? I am not sure why I am not matching on yours. |
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1480;747;1494;HEX;| |78DA8D935B53525114C7F7E122A22020228A22E00D6F80F6E4A5CB5466616208E44| |3A9CC11B772EA04CC0167F4AD0FD053CD644DF9987D86A60F47EBB2C1667AE98CAE| |DFD9EBFCD75A7B2DF6CE5D6C7A8478FF4068038F4DBDD92C172B96DE6848CBB5ABB| |7CE2DDDF4EE1B7553B6E285F377C7A6740921C63A92724E9A52A673BAD53274B3FC| |D06A3563DD6F9BF254D69A325D3CC755419E9AF2423603D95A555AB2D64A775E3CF| |97ADD4CEF48BD61D4CEBCB4C8C913A362D424AFB68CB36A0BBEF93AC2136935AB46| |23F0A46154D28FEA2797E59CDE6C49EB720436370FFF9F7197F4B49DE214B0226C6| |78C2AC16130DE107ADE127218A55194436CDBD135B84518CA329E12969E137641AE| |B1DCAEB17C84E5232C8FB0FC0A7476B519FB2B4052F4BC26F41E300E097D478C32E| |105443939BBCD69D3D0156FD397B846AB2F20E036DB36D74F1B56F2FC60DC10F2F0| |D5CD19847B913AFC0AAE7EB5957E9ECB000F648027E1E749F89F01A262304B18862| |8AFDA8AB7978A4F3B09B3210DE57B20F029818F05C30E060BBE8120A0EA06B8EE2C| |179CE5F249AE9BE4BA49AE1B86A8204789E01C090AE00AA99E42297245C11566951| |67E49E53245C277F832AAAA8EAED24C226B84F175C65DC2C406E31EA1085163AA99| |B1214A341120C4B9991808A24A10E5820B5C70A144B806414CD58D71B709EE36C1D| |D26B8DB69EE769ABB2D41D4A43A4E937E4A34C5E5A7820C2EAF816E464D65264289| |ECE09A53A173C31A669BCFD0D99B0FF3EA0EAD1CA05B543B5FE4DC4B5C29C3B94B2| |04BABDCE904E5BEF10AB1AC6296B9DB953D06373DEEE8DE35F88347ECFCE3C93BD4| |C5028F469E98A37BD7DA6E7FF782FCCFE3BCBDA642F019E8F9DBC527C575EB720AF| |52BDDA761A478DFA96D3AA1992C61659F9CBDB75136F191CEC3D22742EA0A30247E| |793A0277A10F6C094D1E8CB68F6F07680E7179846F3ABE1DA3A9E0B2FDDBD3998C6| |F1507B086661DCD069A100C427C40A50B6F693F1A0F1A2F9A01343E347E34413411| |34D768DA7F005A5AE6AC| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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Quote:
Okay, I see now. Yes, I much prefer that slotting for DT. You are skirting the edge on AoE there with only .4% of a cushion. Careful =)|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Duh. Alt slotting. I was playing around with Dragon's Tail and I had two slotting configurations in it. I was looking at one but exported the other. For the record, this is the alternate slotting I was looking at: it uses a full set of Armageddons in Dragon's tail, but in doing so it sacrifices some AoE defense: AoE drops to 45.1% with almost no margin for error on debuffing. But it picks up 10% global recharge and a much faster cycling DT. At the cost of some regen I could shift a slot from Aid Self to Lucky or Evasion to pick up a little more AoE defense to compensate. Sorry about the confusion.
|
Cheers
[B] GUARDIAN 50s:[/B] [B]Tank[/B]: Ice/Fire, Fire/Fire, DA/SS, Inv/WM, SD/Elec...[B]Scrap[/B]: BS/Reg, Spin/DA, DM/SD, Fire/WP, Claws/SR....[B]Troller[/B]: Ill/Rad, Fire/Kin...[B]Blaster[/B]: Fire/EM....[B]Defender[/B]: D3...[B]Brute[/B]: Elm/ElA...[B]EPIC[/B]: Widow, PB, Crab...CURRENTLY: 45 Stone/Stone Tank...38 AR/Rad Corr...21 Ice^3 Dom
Joining the crowd with their inherent fitness mids
For the aoe and hasten starved builds
46.3/46.3/46.6 defense
329% regen (26.45 hp/sec)
143.6% HP (1922)
200% (3.75) endrec with 1.04 enduse
SK-CS-SK-CAK chain on perma hasten
Aidself
Fireball!!!!!!!
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1468;728;1456;HEX;| |78DA8D935B4F1341188667DB2DA5E716A89C69013994C242F11004C5A84852A45A5| |AE44AAD4B19CAEA5A9AB624E8953FC02B4DC044B951F1F0138C3FAE7E8769C170E3| |06DE67E7DB77A6EF3793C91CAEF885787B5B68C17BB659AB15F2C5AA59A9C8AA2B6| |396AC6260CBDAB7653D9E3B78B56D4BB710A2BF692864A42DA59131AB75CBB40B77| |AAF55AACF56D45EECA724D1AF9031CE5E4AE2D0F652D922EEFC9AA2CD78DE68B3FB| |BBF6F1BEBD2AC58E5528006AB5669AFDE1A65E48E55B4CAD24BA37C45CA9D8EFB15| |AB68DCB5CD37B290316B75597DDD03C112F07F8409E969E822E9102225DAA708DE7| |1C624C19F2064D0AE91DD29D24EFAB24608AE12461F108EDDCA261A2EEDA520C30B| |42B8C4D82574AC010645479AF008663979758733AAA1E1728430D545B80406171B8| |48B0D0FA1E45673DC1CA58BA37471BE2C183C1C45781AF0080D2A3E55F151C50995| |806A2BD0AD6196F83CCD4ECC12A696E19BEE141B600CA95F0B718004279CE1849FC| |010518D47B8F1216E7C881B1FE2C6E3DC789C1BD76156272FAB7706B9D510C34B18| |F63102841CD8A36A1BA2D4C047A874AB9FEDFE4147D5F39D714A98F8C9F84648FC2| |27C8659BDEAF07B6F51A9EF26638130B0C85822E4C1DEAF9AEF8F9E3F9769DE8341| |3736C3B90629570C2A31AE38628FF944F38C4DC2261846D49A23BCE628AF391A269| |C80614C651C93B477E33B8CE78C6DC24491F02520C4A48A304911BE4225A91648A6| |A891E939C63461C660CC124EC16E28BB718D4AB357195718F384D475C208C49B53F| |9E7921421F50F06F4D605833F0CB47EA192D55BB74568BC6F7AEB9E353C61B815FC| |F57F1ED7D91555CBB75DA8B8CF2A2EB145FBACF3E9E81B84B665BA046D6B8009D19| |E669CBFFCC7D4BEE33DE30361F888F0DBDFF479725ED04D942C88B6856F4F509EE2| |F019BE99F8B68D52C461E38FBFB93DA105DC851B288B284B2851D80DF10E9D6EBCC| |33E143F4A002588124209A374A2F4A19CA034FE02F6FDFC8F| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Quote:
I'm at work and can't see the build until I get home, but it sounds similar to the all-out recharge build I posted up above. Does it have something like +182.5% recharge, plus Hasten? Also, I had to slot a recharge IO into CAK to make that chain work even with perma-hasten in my build, because it was just a fraction of a second too slow in recharging.|
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Joining the crowd with their inherent fitness mids
For the aoe and hasten starved builds 46.3/46.3/46.6 defense 329% regen (26.45 hp/sec) 143.6% HP (1922) 200% (3.75) endrec with 1.04 enduse SK-CS-SK-CAK chain on perma hasten Aidself Fireball!!!!!!! |
Sometimes those freebee Claws discounts make me wanna climb the walls.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Sometimes those freebee Claws discounts make me wanna climb the walls.
|
/raspberry
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Damnit, Iggy....
|
Ah, the power of shield walls... lol. But builds that benefit from more recharge are still better off with LotG's imo, and I think shield walls can be pricey (haven't checked lately).
Following behind Iggy and for those longing for AoE and Hasten, here is one that uses MU Mastery to get the following with 172.5% recharge:
46.3/46.3/46.4 defense
341% regen (27.6 hp/sec)
144.7% HP (1938)
3.83 endrec with 1.06 enduse
1s short of perma hasten
Aid Self
Ball Lightning up every 8.8s
Cheers
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Violet Rumble: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Medicine
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Hectmb-Dmg(11), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(13)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- SW-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SW-Def(13), SW-Def/EndRdx(15), SW-ResDam/Re TP(36)
Level 2: Cobra Strike -- Mako-Dam%(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Mako-Acc/Dmg(17), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(19), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(19)
Level 4: Agile -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(37), LkGmblr-Def(43)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Focused Senses -- SW-Def(A), SW-Def/EndRdx(21), SW-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 16: Dodge -- SW-Def/Rchg(A), SW-Def/EndRdx(42), SW-Def(46)
Level 18: Crippling Axe Kick -- Mako-Dam%(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Mako-Acc/Dmg(31), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(33), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(50)
Level 20: Tough -- GA-End/Res(A), GA-3defTpProc(23), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(23), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(34)
Level 22: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Focus Chi -- GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(25), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(25), GSFC-Build%(33), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(40), GSFC-ToHit(40)
Level 26: Dragon's Tail -- Armgdn-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Armgdn-Dmg(27), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(29)
Level 28: Lucky -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(43), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+(34), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 32: Aid Other -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(37)
Level 35: Evasion -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36)
Level 38: Eagles Claw -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(39), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Mu Bolts -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(42), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(48), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(46), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal(48), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1478;744;1488;HEX;| |78DA8D946B53524118C7F77011511010116F086A2A17398A5DC6B4CB34998549219| |8AF2A3AE28A274FC800CED8BB3E40AF6A469B29DF75FD084D1FA70FD14B7A2E0B3A| |D39BCEC0FF77F6D9FFEE3ECF2E4BEE78D523C49BDB42EBBB6B198D46A958AE1BB59| |AAC3B7346C52C7BB7CD434B366385A3573B9674092146DB86524E5A52EA39A3DE34| |0DAB74A7DE6C443B7DAB724F561B522F1E61AB20F72C792C1B816C755FD665B5A9B| |75F3CF9C3434BDF9046CDAC56BCD458332BFB4D68F550AB589372973B7272D72C9B| |5519BE5733CB7AB169580798C5512967349AB2FE7A08B24BC0F704D3A4A7E510299| |B1019D19D24F4CC30E2044F829043BB4676BBC8DAA9679DD0B746987A483875299B| |6839B503418697047F85B147E85F0744447F96F01846D979769B3DA4A1E15280901| |C200C82C1C906E164C32308B9D41817A732C0A90C707E7930B8D518778A56D520D4| |CBD989DE110A4D42C8ABA6F1B22BC1C83036C1E05306DF7D9A39C1EBA479D58F600| |8A892035CF238973CCE258F73C9312E39F38060875141B5A1C10C4D34B8C8086B68| |98182414C017525584D234D1070885D582E16F743C435F195F08B11F84D9EF8CCF8| |44F306A581DF8F04D0A8DDC602C11C696192B8422D84755D9A3DDF0322B924EC21C| |EFBF030C115540C44FA1189FD9843AC1202102BE28AFAB4537B9A748D8829E49B5C| |4248F99E2E39EE2F9CEC030AD529E9654FBCC2EE3056387305B26FC86ED8B2B7B3C| |435524D284A44E989F276416087FE04AA7943DB548A1B9CB8C2B84F455C63542149| |2D1D96ED3B980F9278C2D42180C0BEAC7B510A78CC61C9D4B061F78C4C6C5889D26| |CE3B3A574668648A3A3A97ADE5F6838F7BFFE7719EDF53B562D73F11D779C429B6F| |930B912079F4FD72DFAE975ADD37977671917FF014E2973DB3BC67BC2C409E1A7A7| |ED73177A40B750F220DA36BE3D457986CDE7F866E0DB0E4A199BAD5F9EF6FEF8967| |017AEA32CA3ACA0846037C45B74BAF01EF7A27850BC287D283E143F4A106504E50C| |A5F5170BE7E988| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
[B] GUARDIAN 50s:[/B] [B]Tank[/B]: Ice/Fire, Fire/Fire, DA/SS, Inv/WM, SD/Elec...[B]Scrap[/B]: BS/Reg, Spin/DA, DM/SD, Fire/WP, Claws/SR....[B]Troller[/B]: Ill/Rad, Fire/Kin...[B]Blaster[/B]: Fire/EM....[B]Defender[/B]: D3...[B]Brute[/B]: Elm/ElA...[B]EPIC[/B]: Widow, PB, Crab...CURRENTLY: 45 Stone/Stone Tank...38 AR/Rad Corr...21 Ice^3 Dom
Quote:
If you're gonna team at all, I'd endorse this build or one like it. Fireball alone will give you some nice aoe and make you feel a lot more usefull on teams. Or go villain and grab some mu electric powers. While you're correct to say MA is pretty much a single target set, there's no reason not to use the great pool powers to get some juicy aoe. Looks the change will make playing sets like MA on large teams a lot more palatable.
|
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Joining the crowd with their inherent fitness mids
For the aoe and hasten starved builds 46.3/46.3/46.6 defense 329% regen (26.45 hp/sec) 143.6% HP (1922) 200% (3.75) endrec with 1.04 enduse SK-CS-SK-CAK chain on perma hasten Aidself Fireball!!!!!!! Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1468;728;1456;HEX;| |78DA8D935B4F1341188667DB2DA5E716A89C69013994C242F11004C5A84852A45A5| |AE44AAD4B19CAEA5A9AB624E8953FC02B4DC044B951F1F0138C3FAE7E8769C170E3| |06DE67E7DB77A6EF3793C91CAEF885787B5B68C17BB659AB15F2C5AA59A9C8AA2B6| |396AC6260CBDAB7653D9E3B78B56D4BB710A2BF692864A42DA59131AB75CBB40B77| |AAF55AACF56D45EECA724D1AF9031CE5E4AE2D0F652D922EEFC9AA2CD78DE68B3FB| |BBF6F1BEBD2AC58E5528006AB5669AFDE1A65E48E55B4CAD24BA37C45CA9D8EFB15| |AB68DCB5CD37B290316B75597DDD03C112F07F8409E969E822E9102225DAA708DE7| |1C624C19F2064D0AE91DD29D24EFAB24608AE12461F108EDDCA261A2EEDA520C30B| |42B8C4D82574AC010645479AF008663979758733AAA1E1728430D545B80406171B8| |48B0D0FA1E45673DC1CA58BA37471BE2C183C1C45781AF0080D2A3E55F151C50995| |806A2BD0AD6196F83CCD4ECC12A696E19BEE141B600CA95F0B718004279CE1849FC| |010518D47B8F1216E7C881B1FE2C6E3DC789C1BD76156272FAB7706B9D510C34B18| |F63102841CD8A36A1BA2D4C047A874AB9FEDFE4147D5F39D714A98F8C9F84648FC2| |27C8659BDEAF07B6F51A9EF26638130B0C85822E4C1DEAF9AEF8F9E3F9769DE8341| |3736C3B90629570C2A31AE38628FF944F38C4DC2261846D49A23BCE628AF391A269| |C80614C651C93B477E33B8CE78C6DC24491F02520C4A48A304911BE4225A91648A6| |A891E939C63461C660CC124EC16E28BB718D4AB357195718F384D475C208C49B53F| |9E7921421F50F06F4D605833F0CB47EA192D55BB74568BC6F7AEB9E353C61B815FC| |F57F1ED7D91555CBB75DA8B8CF2A2EB145FBACF3E9E81B84B665BA046D6B8009D19| |E669CBFFCC7D4BEE33DE30361F888F0DBDFF479725ED04D942C88B6856F4F509EE2| |F019BE99F8B68D52C461E38FBFB93DA105DC851B288B284B2851D80DF10E9D6EBCC| |33E143F4A002588124209A374A2F4A19CA034FE02F6FDFC8F| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |
Cyclones read my thoughts about the mu powers, he must be one of those he-seers...
Quote:
I didn't. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
.... I completely forgot the recharge alpha also did regen... heh... heheheheh...
|
A lot of the 'hard shell' builds are gonna see a lot of love on that option.
This is one of several reasons I'm currently bullish on Elec, Dark, Fire, and Invuln.
And frankly, we only saw the first few levels of the alpha slot! Who knows what the higher enhancers do.
Quote:
Yeah, either of those builds would be a wrecking ball and give players a very team friendly option. Probably a nice tradeoff for Crane overall. Nice aspect of MU is it lets you in a slot earlier to the big AoE and allows for a travel power pick or even more utility elsewhere. |
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Cyclones read my thoughts about the mu powers, he must be one of those he-seers...
|
Cheers
[B] GUARDIAN 50s:[/B] [B]Tank[/B]: Ice/Fire, Fire/Fire, DA/SS, Inv/WM, SD/Elec...[B]Scrap[/B]: BS/Reg, Spin/DA, DM/SD, Fire/WP, Claws/SR....[B]Troller[/B]: Ill/Rad, Fire/Kin...[B]Blaster[/B]: Fire/EM....[B]Defender[/B]: D3...[B]Brute[/B]: Elm/ElA...[B]EPIC[/B]: Widow, PB, Crab...CURRENTLY: 45 Stone/Stone Tank...38 AR/Rad Corr...21 Ice^3 Dom
Quote:
Yes they are, each enhancement averages around 150million a piece and thats probably on the lower side.
|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Ah, the power of shield walls... lol. But builds that benefit from more recharge are still better off with LotG's imo, and I think shield walls can be pricey (haven't checked lately).
|
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
And here I am thinking this would be a fun little exercise...............
Arc,
not sure if you missed it or not, but both builds I posted don't have inherent fitness