What's your seecondary?
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well if it's just a matter of getting their damage up as close to their cap as possible before DR kicks in , regular crafted training io's would do the job wouldn't they? after that I suppose you could slot some procs for more damage chances.
EDIT: here's some ideas;
chance for -Res% in Call Jounin (all their sword attacks will have the chance)
chance for smashing damage can go in jounin, genin, and Oni
chance for negative energy damage can go in jounin
Also, what secondary are you running?
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A note regarding damage procs in pets: they don't. I put Explosive Strike: Chance for Smashing Damage on my Genin and Touch of the Nictus: Chance for Negative Energy Damage on Dark servant. Neither has ever proc'd. The latter works fine on my Twilight Grasp, but never on the Servant's. Pretty sure this is WAI. Though I don't think I personally would consider it OP, the powers that be apparently do feel that way.|
Originally Posted by beyeajus
well if it's just a matter of getting their damage up as close to their cap as possible before DR kicks in , regular crafted training io's would do the job wouldn't they? after that I suppose you could slot some procs for more damage chances.
EDIT: here's some ideas; chance for -Res% in Call Jounin (all their sword attacks will have the chance) chance for smashing damage can go in jounin, genin, and Oni chance for negative energy damage can go in jounin Also, what secondary are you running? |
I'll 3rd a desire to know the secondary in play, and would also like to know what PPP/APP you plan on adding, if any.
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really? I don't know about the pets like fluffy, but I see the -RES shield on my enemies all the time when the Jounin get at them.|
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
A note regarding damage procs in pets: they don't. I put Explosive Strike: Chance for Smashing Damage on my Genin and Touch of the Nictus: Chance for Negative Energy Damage on Dark servant.
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Just to prove it further, my Mercs do proc on the chance for negative energy damage, which helps a lot since they are all about lethal damage.
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Sorry. I should have been more specific. Dark is my secondary.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
What's your seecondary?
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
Tactics.
Assault. Maneuvers. |
I currently have several partial sets that grant defense bonuses and other things. I even had the purple set slotted and wasn't happy with the damage output. I replaced the sets with regular IOs to up the damage percentage, but I'm still not happy.
I've tried slotting a damage proc in the past, but saw that it only hit when I summoned the pets, and not during their attacks. Was that just a bug that's since been fixed?
Anyway, the advice about the procs was what I was looking for. And any other advice would be helpful.
Thanks everyone.
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Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
A note regarding damage procs in pets: they don't. I put Explosive Strike: Chance for Smashing Damage on my Genin and Touch of the Nictus: Chance for Negative Energy Damage on Dark servant. Neither has ever proc'd. The latter works fine on my Twilight Grasp, but never on the Servant's. Pretty sure this is WAI. Though I don't think I personally would consider it OP, the powers that be apparently do feel that way.
I'll 3rd a desire to know the secondary in play, and would also like to know what PPP/APP you plan on adding, if any. |
@Joshua.
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This should only proc on the pet's powers that do KB I believe.|
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
I put Explosive Strike: Chance for Smashing Damage .
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WIA= Working as intended
PPP= Patron Power Pool
APP= Ancillary Power Pool
A better damage proc for a pet that does more melee is a melee set damage proc. Ranged pets= Range set damage proc.
In my opinion, the Build Up in Soul Bound (purple set) might be the best bet for one of your pets. I'm about 75% sure that it causes them to proc a build-up effect for themselves upon attack.
T. Hayes
@The Cleansing
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That's the -DEF your seeing from the Jounin as an inherent effect for two of their attacks, Sting of the Wasp and Gambler's Cut, just like the typical Scrapper versions. You can see the numbers for these by going to the enhancement window, opening the detailed info for Call Jounin, and then opening the individual powers. One is -5% (base) for 10s, the other is for 6s.|
Originally Posted by beyeajus
really? I don't know about the pets like fluffy, but I see the -RES shield on my enemies all the time when the Jounin get at them.
Just to prove it further, my Mercs do proc on the chance for negative energy damage, which helps a lot since they are all about lethal damage. |
Not sure what you're seeing for the presumed neg energy damage caused by your mercs, would have to see the damage log specific to your pets. Might be a hold-over that got missed, since I've only just created a mercs mm myself, nor have I tested demons in this way yet. But I can honestly say I've tested various damage and other procs in necro, ninja, bots, thugs, dark servant, singularity, phantom army and phantasm. The ONLY procs that have ever had any effects are those in Pet Damage and Recharge Intensive Pets sets (the DEF and RES procs and the build-up in Soulbound Allegiance).
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Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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They never did when I had them slotted.|
Originally Posted by Kazuo_Kiriyama
This should only proc on the pet's powers that do KB I believe.
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| A better damage proc for a pet that does more melee is a melee set damage proc. Ranged pets= Range set damage proc. |
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| In my opinion, the Build Up in Soul Bound (purple set) might be the best bet for one of your pets. I'm about 75% sure that it causes them to proc a build-up effect for themselves upon attack. |
Where to find me after the end:
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LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
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Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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*facepalm*|
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
However, I don't think any pets accept Ranged Damage sets. Could be wrong. Haven't checked in a while, and such things have come and gone with various patches and issues.
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I don't know what I was thinking. Pardon me, I'm out of my mind today.
T. Hayes
@The Cleansing
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No worries, I left a message. |
Originally Posted by Kazuo_Kiriyama
*facepalm*
I don't know what I was thinking. Pardon me, I'm out of my mind today. |
Where to find me after the end:
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Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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Chance for Build Up works well with the Genin. Achilles Heel works wonders in Jounin. Perma-Smoke Flash the Oni.
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Originally Posted by Forefinger_
Please tell me what would be kick-butt enhancements that would make my Ninja do tons of damage. I have all three of the pet powers 6 slotted, so please help me out. I've done all IO sets, I've tried Frankenslotting, and still I'm not satisfied, but I don't really know what I'm doing with all the IO slotting. Please help with some suggestions of what sets or IOs would make the Ninjas be lawnmowers on maps. Thanks.
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but the symbol is orange, not purple...|
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
That's the -DEF your seeing from the Jounin as an inherent effect for two of their attacks, Sting of the Wasp and Gambler's Cut, just like the typical Scrapper versions.
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I'm certain that the achille's heel: chance for -res does work for Jounin. On Ye olde P-wiki it even says that you can slot the whole set in them if you wanted to, why would you be able to slot it if it didn't work?
Same for Mercs, they take the whole Lady Grey set, Neg energy included. I'll post some combat logs soon as I can.
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Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Achilles Heel works wonders in Jounin.
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EDIT: just to clarify, you mean just the damage procs? or any chance for anything procs?
OK! Here's those combat logs I promised. I forgot that I deleted my Merc MM a while ago to make room for a Brute
But I get to roll a new one so that's cool. But I figure if that Negative Energy proc will work in them then it will work in the Jounin. Anyway, here's one for the -res proc and one for the Neg energy proc:
Jounin: HIT Warrior Chopper! Your Sting of the Wasp power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 93.92.
Jounin: You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
Jounin: Jounin hits Warrior Chopper with their Sting of the Wasp for 41.97 points of lethal damage and reduces your defense!
Jounin: HIT Warrior Chopper! Your Gambler's Cut power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 23.71.
Jounin: Jounin slashes Warrior Chopper with their Gambler's Cut for 36.47 points of lethal damage and reduces your defense!
Jounin: Underboss takes 5.26 points of toxic damage from the Poison Dart.
Jounin: Underboss MISSES! Punch power had a 6.50% chance to hit, but rolled a 22.49.
Jounin: HIT Underboss! Your Sting of the Wasp power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 45.98.
Jounin: You blast Underboss for 105.93 points of bonus negative energy damage!
Jounin: Jounin hits Underboss with their Sting of the Wasp for 75.52 points of lethal damage and reduces your defense!
Jounin: HIT Underboss! Your Gambler's Cut power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 46.91.
Pretty darn good extra damage too, I'd say.
I did a test on Genins before and technically you can force them to "kick more" by not giving them the first upgrade. Losing the first upgrade, Genins run in to use Crane kick more but it also means the target(s) is getting knocked back more. I don't like that behavior much to be honest.
Proc damage is only triggered by the specific powers that have that effect. Genin can only trigger smashing damage with Crane if you put kb proc.
Oni is STILL bugged. Oni has no kb powers at all but he is listed as taking knockback set. He should be taking both Immb and Hold set!
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Heh, Dark Servant (admittedly a temp pet) allows me to slot Accurate Healing, and the Chance for Neg Energy never works. As to why they'd let me slot it... makes sense to be able to slot the REST of the set, I guess. On the other hand, my snark answer would be "bad design". |
Originally Posted by beyeajus
On Ye olde P-wiki it even says that you can slot the whole set in them if you wanted to, why would you be able to slot it if it didn't work?
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| EDIT: just to clarify, you mean just the damage procs? or any chance for anything procs? |
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STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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Cool, thx - memory fails me at the moment; what are the two sets containing the procs shown here?|
Originally Posted by beyeajus
Jounin: HIT Warrior Chopper! Your Sting of the Wasp power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 93.92.
Jounin: You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily Jounin: Jounin hits Warrior Chopper with their Sting of the Wasp for 41.97 points of lethal damage and reduces your defense! Jounin: HIT Underboss! Your Sting of the Wasp power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 45.98. Jounin: You blast Underboss for 105.93 points of bonus negative energy damage! Jounin: Jounin hits Underboss with their Sting of the Wasp for 75.52 points of lethal damage and reduces your defense! |
Going to go back and test several of these (and others) on several MMs, see what does and doesn't work. Wondering if they've got these all lined up and working now, or if it's as iffy (between MM primaries) as it was when I stopped trying. Being an MM nut, and having 7 on Justice alone, gives me the leeway to test a lot of this.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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7 mm? oh my, yes you do have your work cut out for you. the sets I took those from were touch of lady grey for the negative energy damage and achille's heel for the chance for -res. (<--both cheap as hell on the market nowadays)|
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
Cool, thx - memory fails me at the moment; what are the two sets containing the procs shown here?
Going to go back and test several of these (and others) on several MMs, see what does and doesn't work. Wondering if they've got these all lined up and working now, or if it's as iffy (between MM primaries) as it was when I stopped trying. Being an MM nut, and having 7 on Justice alone, gives me the leeway to test a lot of this. |
I think it's in the "improving mercs" thread that someone suggested to another to use the negative energy proc in mercs, and they had good results. Maybe I haven't been around long enough to live through the procs doing nothing issue, but they sure do work these days.
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I'd crit my pants if he could take both chance for psionic damage procs from the hold sets, Ghost widow's embrace and neuronic shutdown. Doubt I'd have room though after putting chance for +mag2 hold in. mmmmmmmmmm.....damage.....|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Oni is STILL bugged. Oni has no kb powers at all but he is listed as taking knockback set. He should be taking both Immb and Hold set!
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and yes the genin will only have a chance for smashing damage when the use crane kick, a KB power.
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Originally Posted by beyeajus
I'd crit my pants if he could take both chance for psionic damage procs from the hold sets, Ghost widow's embrace and neuronic shutdown. Doubt I'd have room though after putting chance for +mag2 hold in. mmmmmmmmmm.....damage.....
and yes the genin will only have a chance for smashing damage when the use crane kick, a KB power. |
Well, Mids shows Demon Prince can take hold set. There is absolutely no reason why Oni can't/shouldn't. Oni needs a lot more damage than Prince!
In fact, if you compare the two, Oni still has a lot of room for improvement. Prince would cycle every power at melee range while Oni can't if he draws his sword out. The only thing Oni has over Prince is Rain of Fire and other than that, Prince > Oni any day and any way! Rain of Fire on Oni is hit or miss because the target is dead, the rain stops.
I've PMed Castle about Oni's knockback set a while ago and he knows about it. He just doesn't have time to fix it yet.
Has anyone put hold procs in Prince yet? Good result? One good thing about proc damage in Boss Pet is that the proc damage is HIGHER than yours because they are considered "higher level" than you are. :P
PS: Believe it or not, while I don't have a lvl 50 Ninja, I did a lot of testings on them when they introduced new Pet AI. I did the most test with Merc, Ninja and Necro. When pets were allowed to take -recharge effect, Grave Knight's range damage was quite impressive.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Well, Mids shows Demon Prince can take hold set. There is absolutely no reason why Oni can't/shouldn't. Oni needs a lot more damage than Prince!
In fact, if you compare the two, Oni still has a lot of room for improvement. Prince would cycle every power at melee range while Oni can't if he draws his sword out. The only thing Oni has over Prince is Rain of Fire and other than that, Prince > Oni any day and any way! Rain of Fire on Oni is hit or miss because the target is dead, the rain stops. I've PMed Castle about Oni's knockback set a while ago and he knows about it. He just doesn't have time to fix it yet. Has anyone put hold procs in Prince yet? Good result? One good thing about proc damage in Boss Pet is that the proc damage is HIGHER than yours because they are considered "higher level" than you are. :P |
Yup. Been that was for a while I've heard. I'm not sure I would go for it though. Oni only has Char as a hold power, so the only time I would get the proc going is when he's using that one power.
Boss pets Con yellow, but they are always the same level as you. Sounds like it's time for an experiment.
T. Hayes
@The Cleansing
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Con Yellow is considered a "+1" level to you for some reasons. I know it is this way for proc damage. Just compare your boss pet's proc damage to yours and to the lieut and minions. All their proc damage is based on their level. |
Originally Posted by Kazuo_Kiriyama
Yup. Been that was for a while I've heard. I'm not sure I would go for it though. Oni only has Char as a hold power, so the only time I would get the proc going is when he's using that one power.
Boss pets Con yellow, but they are always the same level as you. Sounds like it's time for an experiment. |
The test I did is Commando's chance for smashing VS my chance for smashing in Slug. I know it was like this a year ago. Not sure if anything has changed? If I remember correctly, my Commando's proc was doing 85 or 87 while my proc did 73-75. I can't remember the exact number.
When I did this test, I was also testing Achille's Heel's debuff value to see if there is any difference because 20% on a lower rank like Minion shouldn't debuff 20% resistance. Well, I couldn't prove that there is any difference so I am assuming 20% is 20% from any pet. I also don't know if Enemy's level reduces the effectiveness of AH Prc. Technically it should because your debuff powers against a higher level enemy are weaker.
This also means Patron pet's proc damage is higher than yours. Not that patron pets are great (not with that super long recharge and duration) but bringing it up as an example.
Yeah, hold proc in Oni may not be that good since only Char can trigger it but I think it's better to mix and match +hold duration and some -endurance as Oni uses a lot of endurance. This would probably allow one slot open up for a pet unique.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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The AH proc cause the target to give the debuff (technically a buff) to themselves that has the -20% res. So the purple patch never comes into play, since the target does it to themselves.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Con Yellow is considered a "+1" level to you for some reasons. I know it is this way for proc damage. Just compare your boss pet's proc damage to yours and to the lieut and minions. All their proc damage is based on their level.
The test I did is Commando's chance for smashing VS my chance for smashing in Slug. I know it was like this a year ago. Not sure if anything has changed? If I remember correctly, my Commando's proc was doing 85 or 87 while my proc did 73-75. I can't remember the exact number. When I did this test, I was also testing Achille's Heel's debuff value to see if there is any difference because 20% on a lower rank like Minion shouldn't debuff 20% resistance. Well, I couldn't prove that there is any difference so I am assuming 20% is 20% from any pet. I also don't know if Enemy's level reduces the effectiveness of AH Prc. Technically it should because your debuff powers against a higher level enemy are weaker. This also means Patron pet's proc damage is higher than yours. Not that patron pets are great (not with that super long recharge and duration) but bringing it up as an example. Yeah, hold proc in Oni may not be that good since only Char can trigger it but I think it's better to mix and match +hold duration and some -endurance as Oni uses a lot of endurance. This would probably allow one slot open up for a pet unique. |
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So AH proc is not subjected to level difference? It's flat 20% even against +4 enemies?
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Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
The AH proc cause the target to give the debuff (technically a buff) to themselves that has the -20% res. So the purple patch never comes into play, since the target does it to themselves.
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What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Please tell me what would be kick-butt enhancements that would make my Ninja do tons of damage. I have all three of the pet powers 6 slotted, so please help me out. I've done all IO sets, I've tried Frankenslotting, and still I'm not satisfied, but I don't really know what I'm doing with all the IO slotting. Please help with some suggestions of what sets or IOs would make the Ninjas be lawnmowers on maps. Thanks.
@Joshua.