Signature Hero Choice give buffs/debuffs at charactor creation
By
ClawsandEffect,
Posted on: 2010-09-20 09:44 in Suggestions and Ideas
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I'm sure they could do something like this that would be balanced enough. The problem is that people would figure out which ones are the most useful ones for specific ATs/Powersets and no one "in their right mind" would ever use anything else. |
Originally Posted by EarthFury
How about a choice of signature hero as your Inspiration, Diety, Mentor, Advisor whatever (I don't know what would be an appropriate title). Depending on which one you choose at character creation you get some different mods to your inherent base attribute. The amounts of course would have to be very carefully balanced to not allow exploitation, or prevent nerfing. I'm one of those folks who spend a modicum of time tweaking their build so my example number might be way to low or way to high I don't know. These are just random numbers I pulled out of a hat to demonstrate my idea. Feel free to input numbers you think would be more appropriate. Many other role playing games have kind of something similar but tied to your choice of your race -- elve, orc, human, etc. I think role players would particularly like this...maybe. A few VERY Random Names and Examples:
* Statesman (The Leader): +5% Dam, -5% Acc, +5% Rech, -5% End Cost, +25% Dam to Brawl, -5% Run Speed. |
This idea falls into the same trap that would happen if they allowed costume items to grant in-game bonuses. Everyone would figure out which items provided the best combo of bonuses and everyone would end up looking identical.
Therefore this is not technically a bad idea - obviously it works in other games.
It's just one that I feel would ultimately lead to less diversity in this particular game system.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
Bonuses at creation are generally considered to be something most modern MMOs try to avoid. Why? Because it's a barrier to entry for new players. Not to mention that in order to make things more "fair" the bonuses generally have to be nerfed into insignificance.
New players don't have a clue about what's good and what's bad. It's hard enough explaining the somewhat byzantine rules regarding our existing enhancers, not to mention the quirks of each powerset, not to mention which IO sets are appropriate and why. Adding something that you intend to be a story or background choice and yet tacking on real performance altering stats to it, makes it a loaded gun.
For example, look at the bonuses in WoW and compare to the ones you're suggesting. I know you said the numbers need to be balanced, etc. However what you're suggesting could easily be leveraged by picking the right powersets and power pools, and the penalties you suggest are either pointless or annoying. In WoW, very few of the racials have any significant effect on overall gameplay. They're flavorful and in some cases helpful, but ultimately pointless. In Star Wars Galaxies they used to have similar bonuses, and for the most part they eliminated them entirely, because despite many attempts they proved impossible to balance.
Arguing for something on the grounds that the RPers would appreciate is also a bit specious in this case. RPers don't care about numbers or effectiveness when it comes to RPing a story. Even as a really experienced player, I could decide I want to make a superspeed scrapper whose high metabolism lets him heal fast (regeneration secondary), and idolizes Synapse, but under your arbitrary rules (or the devs) that automatically becomes a bad idea because of the regen penalty.
This is precisely why the Origins we pick when we make a character have no function other than a story one. They don't want people to be limited in their choices because of a numbers game, and they don't want people who don't know better to suffer through the entire life of the character because they picked "wrong"
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
/Unsigned. It just...I...heck, if I have to actually explain it, that in and of itself is a problem.
Also; why the hell would Synapse, arguably the fastest character in the CityOf Universe, give a -5% penalty to movement speed?
Pfffhehehehe....sorry, but that just made me smirk.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Hey, are you channeling Statesmen from years back, I think he said the very exact same thing. |
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
They don't want people to be limited in their choices because of a numbers game, and they don't want people who don't know better to suffer through the entire life of the character because they picked "wrong"
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The DEVs at some point changed their minds for whatever reason and they added all the incredibly detailed power stats any and everywhere on the interface, recipes, enhancements, etc. It's kind of funny, I noticed they actually have a zoning tip telling folks that recipes "...are completely optional, you don't need use them to play the game..." or words to that affect.
The load screen tips need reviewing. Some of them are actually wrong at this point.
And no to the idea. I'm a roleplayer, and I wouldn't like it.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Just because the numbers are there, doesn't mean they're necessary. Powersets are balanced across the AT, so the likelihood of a "wrong" choice is much less likely. When you add in a new system of bonuses that is Independent of the powersets, that's adding a layer of complexity making it at the same time harder to balance and at the same time harder to pick "right"|
Originally Posted by EarthFury
Hey, are you channeling Statesmen from years back, I think he said the very exact same thing.
The DEVs at some point changed their minds for whatever reason and they added all the incredibly detailed power stats any and everywhere on the interface, recipes, enhancements, etc. It's kind of funny, I noticed they actually have a zoning tip telling folks that recipes "...are completely optional, you don't need use them to play the game..." or words to that affect. |
Besides, seeing the stats of your powers doesn't mean you have to pick them when you get to them or decide before you've even had a chance to play the character. What the OP is talking about is a set of bonuses with contradictory design goals- RP to expand the character background versus numerical advantage.
I'm not opposed to giving players more choices. I just want them to be real ones not loaded ones.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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I appreciate the civil critiqueing. |
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
Just because the numbers are there, doesn't mean they're necessary. Powersets are balanced across the AT, so the likelihood of a "wrong" choice is much less likely. When you add in a new system of bonuses that is Independent of the powersets, that's adding a layer of complexity making it at the same time harder to balance and at the same time harder to pick "right"
Besides, seeing the stats of your powers doesn't mean you have to pick them when you get to them or decide before you've even had a chance to play the character. What the OP is talking about is a set of bonuses with contradictory design goals- RP to expand the character background versus numerical advantage. I'm not opposed to giving players more choices. I just want them to be real ones not loaded ones. |
Maybe then just the Signature hero as your mentor part -- without the stat mods part -- paired with at least some kind meaningful added variety beyond simple lore or back story RP stuff.How do you add non-superficial choice without adding complexity. Doen't meaningful choice inherently add complexity.
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So, my first thought on reading that are Patron Power Pools. They're upfront with their effects and real numbers, RP related, tied in with the Patrons, they're similarities limit min-maxing, and high enough in levels to assume the player knows what they're getting into. In effect, very similar to what you're asking for, but greater on all details and effects. |
Originally Posted by EarthFury
I appreciate the civil critiqueing.
Maybe then just the Signature hero as your mentor part -- without the stat mods part -- paired with at least some kind meaningful added variety beyond simple lore or back story RP stuff.How do you add non-superficial choice without adding complexity. Doen't meaningful choice inherently add complexity. |
A "toned down" version wouldn't be too hard to come up with, I suppose. Perhaps a form tied to Badges gained from preforming tasks for the Signature mentor, as well as learning about them. For example, badges that specifically mention Synapse and Mynx, including Exploration badges detailing their exploits, TF badges, and defeat / mission badges, could unlock an Accolade that grants benefits for your chosen Signature Mentor.
These badges could also include an Exclusive badge gained from preforming the "pick your Signature Mentor" mission, to prevent someone from gaining all the Signature Mentor badges, or accidentally gaining one just by running content. It would give the opportunity to, like the Patron Arcs, explain the permanent status and abilities gained, as well as level locking the content to something that would allow players time to get some footing and know what they're getting into.
With these kinds of limitations (even some, not necessarily all) it would be possible grant some fairly minor to moderate global buffs with little to no debuffs.
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Yeah, I noticed the irony of that as well. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Also; why the hell would Synapse, arguably the fastest character in the CityOf Universe, give a -5% penalty to movement speed? |
If anything, he should speed you up.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I won't immediately bust your idea but I will say this. That's far too many stats, and those are very big numbers.
Also, you put health bar twice on Sister Psyche.
I would suggest one, maybe 2 stats -max- for each persona. Negatives are downers man! Level 50 minimum requirement. 1% Would probably have to be the highest number you could get from it otherwise you'd start to get things being pretty overpowered (As if that doesn't happen enough from IOs now).
From a role-playing standpoint I don't really see the sense in it unless it was an option from character creation like Oblivion where you would choose your "Sign" and get certain stat boosts and such. In this case, it would be some famous hero/villain that your hero/villain aspires to be like/work alongside/kill and usurp and therefore you would develop skills akin to that particular persona (the buff).
That's my 2 cents, as it is I don't particularly care for it but as long as the numbers were drastically lowered there would be no tears shed if it were to come true.
Absolutely, 100%, NO to this idea.
I'm so sick of the idea (that thankfully seems to be fading away) that our characters are 2nd-stringers to the game's Iconic Heroes. That they will always be more powerful or more skilled than we are and we can never catch up. This idea is a big step back in that direction, and I will never support it or anything like it.
I think it would be better if they were a pet you could summon every hour or so when you needed assistance. Id say to make it random though like if you call ms. liberty you either get her, some longbow or maybe minx or someone else.
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
Let me put it this way: I want my aesthetic choices to be as separate from my build choices as practicality allows. That is to say, if we want to have patrons, then these should be done in a different way. And, to be perfectly honest, I don't enjoy the concept of patron pools, either.
Either have your patron show up to help you from time to time in missions that allow that, or otherwise add the ability to take missions from said patron from time to time. But "having" to side with a specific patron because you don't want to suck is not a choice I want to be presented with.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I have one final thing to say about playing second string to Signature Heroes/Villains;
Say hello to Reason, foo!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
How about a choice of signature hero as your Inspiration, Diety, Mentor, Advisor whatever (I don't know what would be an appropriate title). Depending on which one you choose at character creation you get some different mods to your inherent base attribute. The amounts of course would have to be very carefully balanced to not allow exploitation, or prevent nerfing. I'm one of those folks who spend a modicum of time tweaking their build so my example number might be way to low or way to high I don't know. These are just random numbers I pulled out of a hat to demonstrate my idea. Feel free to input numbers you think would be more appropriate. Many other role playing games have kind of something similar but tied to your choice of your race -- elve, orc, human, etc. I think role players would particularly like this...maybe. A few VERY Random Names and Examples: