And which power from each MM set are you going to give up in order for this new power to be added? I ask because this isn't a travel power. You want to be able to dismiss them and resummon them with all their buffs.
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The main advantage of a MM is that they have all those cool henchmen which do all kinds of cool things. The disadvantage to balance them out is that MMs need their henchmen to accomplish all that and it takes time/effort to set that up.|
Originally Posted by Kiwi
MM's should get a power when they get a pet that despawns all of them and another one that respawns them all quickly with all their buffs.
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I suspect the Devs will never give MMs a "quick" way to have all their henchies ready to go without nerfing them down at the same time. My Fire Controller can have her Fire Imps "ready to go" in about 3 seconds, but I pay for that quickness with my relative lack of control over them.
It's all about AT balance.
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Group Fly and Team Teleport
both powers available at level 20, both let you bring your pets with you wherever you go.
EDIT: Also pets will always say yes to a Recall Friend when prompted by their owner.
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While those powers are technically "solutions" to the problem at hand they are not very practical.|
Originally Posted by DMystic
Group Fly and Team Teleport
both powers available at level 20, both let you bring your pets with you wherever you go. EDIT: Also pets will always say yes to a Recall Friend when prompted by their owner. |
I have used Group Fly with Fire Imps and while it's fun on a short distance/tactical level it's hardly a solution for carrying them around from one end of a zone to another. I suspect MM henchies would suffer the same annoyance with that. And while TPing your henchies around might be doable the extra time it'd take to do that probably wouldn't be much different than the extra time it'd take to recast henchies right where you'd need them to cover the situation the OP wants to deal with.
Bottomline maneuvering MM henchies like that aren't easy and I doubt it was ever supposed to be.
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It's not a "Lets get all my pets out quickly" thing but rather "My pets are out and I want to be able to use them at my destination when there is alot of things in the way I'd rather not deal with"|
Originally Posted by Lothic
The main advantage of a MM is that they have all those cool henchmen which do all kinds of cool things. The disadvantage to balance them out is that MMs need their henchmen to accomplish all that and it takes time/effort to set that up.
I suspect the Devs will never give MMs a "quick" way to have all their henchies ready to go without nerfing them down at the same time. My Fire Controller can have her Fire Imps "ready to go" in about 3 seconds, but I pay for that quickness with my relative lack of control over them. It's all about AT balance. |
I'm not bothered if it takes 10-20 seconds to dismiss them but as long as I could get them out to fight without needing to spend that time and endurance just before/during a fight it would be nice.
All other AT's can go across a zone and start a fight without needing to do much beyond using an opener or in a controllers/dominators case use a pet summon then an opener, MMs need to either wait for their pets to get there or spend alot of time and most of their endurance summoning their pets and buffing them and then use their opener (If they are using a secondary that doesn't need alot of endurace)
build a petless MM then. don't have to worry about waiting. and they honestly do not take that long to catch up with you. you can also command them to stay when crossing zones so that when you stop all you do is hit follow and they come right to you.
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And that was my point: Other ATs can go across a zone and start a fight without needing to do much beyond using an opener BECAUSE they don't have an army of henchies to help them. Your disadvantage of being an "Army of One" means you can't turn on a virtual dime the way most other people can.|
Originally Posted by Kiwi
It's not a "Lets get all my pets out quickly" thing but rather "My pets are out and I want to be able to use them at my destination when there is alot of things in the way I'd rather not deal with"
I'm not bothered if it takes 10-20 seconds to dismiss them but as long as I could get them out to fight without needing to spend that time and endurance just before/during a fight it would be nice. All other AT's can go across a zone and start a fight without needing to do much beyond using an opener or in a controllers/dominators case use a pet summon then an opener, MMs need to either wait for their pets to get there or spend alot of time and most of their endurance summoning their pets and buffing them and then use their opener (If they are using a secondary that doesn't need alot of endurace) |
Basically you're asking to have all the bonuses of being a MM without the drawbacks.
I can pretty much guarantee that will never happen.
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Pets keep up pretty well as it is. If they get outside their tether range, they re-spawn on you anyway, buffs and all.
Although I'd love for Group Fly to get re-vamped, maybe into a clicky AoE, so that I could use it on my bots again. Nothing is more awesome than a cloud of heavy metal coasting through the air with extreme prejudice 
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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@Sharker_Quint I've often found that it takes a while for them to run to me unless they have teleported shortly before I get to where I want to be.
@Lothic It's not getting rid of all the drawbacks of MM's just getting rid of the ones that cause street sweeping certain enemies and open missions to be irritating.
It doesn't effect the lack of control over which attacks are used, the limited control over who attacks what, limited control over where pets stand, limited control over the AoE attacks (Where, when and who they are used on), the limited control over pets running into other things when chasing an enemy and having to deal with 3/6 of your pets are easily killed if they are focused or hit with a large attack (No other AT suffers from as much of a damage loss from unlucky hits, only MM's, Trollers and Doms, MM's also lose alot of their mitigation aswell.)
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This|
Originally Posted by Lothic
And that was my point: Other ATs can go across a zone and start a fight without needing to do much beyond using an opener BECAUSE they don't have an army of henchies to help them. Your disadvantage of being an "Army of One" means you can't turn on a virtual dime the way most other people can.
Basically you're asking to have all the bonuses of being a MM without the drawbacks. I can pretty much guarantee that will never happen. |
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha Pets keep up pretty well as it is. If they get outside their tether range, they re-spawn on you anyway, buffs and all. |
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If you are street sweeping/in an open mission then it's your own fault for outrunning your pets. staying in range of your pets is one of the basic tactics you need to learn when running a Mastermind. That is working as intended.
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Originally Posted by Kiwi
@Sharker_Quint I've often found that it takes a while for them to run to me unless they have teleported shortly before I get to where I want to be.
@Lothic It's not getting rid of all the drawbacks of MM's just getting rid of the ones that cause street sweeping certain enemies and open missions to be irritating. |
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Yes I can see why trying to use a MM to street sweep certain enemies and in open missions could be irritating. But guess what: That "disadvantage" is part of what balances out a MM relative to other ATs. |
Originally Posted by Kiwi
@Sharker_Quint I've often found that it takes a while for them to run to me unless they have teleported shortly before I get to where I want to be.
@Lothic It's not getting rid of all the drawbacks of MM's just getting rid of the ones that cause street sweeping certain enemies and open missions to be irritating. It doesn't effect the lack of control over which attacks are used, the limited control over who attacks what, limited control over where pets stand, limited control over the AoE attacks (Where, when and who they are used on), the limited control over pets running into other things when chasing an enemy and having to deal with 3/6 of your pets are easily killed if they are focused or hit with a large attack (No other AT suffers from as much of a damage loss from unlucky hits, only MM's, Trollers and Doms, MM's also lose alot of their mitigation aswell.) |
Every AT has strengths and weaknesses. You find what you're trying to do "irritating" precisely because you are attempting to do things MMs are not very good at doing. Stop trying to pound a square peg into a round hole with this.
You need to accept that playing a MM requires certain kinds of tactics that are fairly different from most other ATs. If you aren't willing to adapt to that you will either continue to have a bad time with it or eventually realize that you don't really prefer that playstyle. The Devs are certainly never going to change the core characteristics of an AT this many years after its introduction without major evidence that there's actually anything wrong with it. Which there isn't... *shrugs*
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Ok I guess I'll just have to deal with it...|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Yes I can see why trying to use a MM to street sweep certain enemies and in open missions could be irritating. But guess what: That "disadvantage" is part of what balances out a MM relative to other ATs.
Every AT has strengths and weaknesses. You find what you're trying to do "irritating" precisely because you are attempting to do things MMs are not very good at doing. Stop trying to pound a square peg into a round hole with this. You need to accept that playing a MM requires certain kinds of tactics that are fairly different from most other ATs. If you aren't willing to adapt to that you will either continue to have a bad time with it or eventually realize that you don't really prefer that playstyle. The Devs are certainly never going to change the core characteristics of an AT this many years after its introduction without major evidence that there's actually anything wrong with it. Which there isn't... *shrugs* |
I just thought it would be something small to help a AT out (Such as Bruising for Tankers, not needed at all but a quality of life impovement)
I suppose the only time it becomes really annoying is when I'm on my Thugs MMs (They seem to be the slowest) and on any teams (Due to people not wanting to clear open missions and just looking for the glowie/boss and heading there and sometimes dieing due to not realising how much they were relying on any of the MM's pets)
There's nothing wrong with suggesting QoL improvements. But you have to look at the same "Bigger Picture" the Devs are going to be using to judge these things. They consider all sorts of factors when balancing their game.
While I can sympathize that herding a bunch of henchies around can have its annoying aspects you have to think that after five years the Devs have reviewed how the MM AT plays in countless scenarios. One has to assume that if they thought the amount of time/effort it takes a MM player to set up all their henchies in ANY given situation was unreasonable compared to their strengths they would have changed it a long time ago.
I suppose if you could somehow prove to the Devs that MMs are virtually unplayable because of this then you might have a case. Problem is the tactics of thousands of players over many years are likely going to stand against you on this. There are several ATs/Powersets I don't typically play simply because the tactics required to play them well don't really appeal to me. Maybe MMs will prove to be that kind of thing for you. Who knows, but good luck regardless.
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Bruising was not QoL for tankers. It's a substantial buff to make them more appealing to a team.
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Originally Posted by Kiwi
I just thought it would be something small to help a AT out (Such as Bruising for Tankers, not needed at all but a quality of life impovement)
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Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
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I thought it was a QoL change, as many Tankers were being played in teams without it and not having it wouldn't make it so teams would never have Tankers.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Bruising was not QoL for tankers. It's a substantial buff to make them more appealing to a team.
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It helped them but it wasn't neccessary for them to be played.
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That's not what I got from how it was announced in Beta.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Bruising was not QoL for tankers. It's a substantial buff to make them more appealing to a team.
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My understanding was that very few took the Tier 1 power from their secondary and this is to encourage them to do so by indirectly giving them more damage as a reward.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
OK, since my last post got lured OT, let me post what I was going to post there, here. 
Clear as mud?
My take on Henchmen travel powers is that they should get whatever the MM is using. No bonus power, no circus parade of henchies trailing across the map to be picked off piecemeal by every spawn they wander by as their crazy boss changes directions 100s of feet away.
No, they just keep up. Plain and simple. Make it even simpler if you like, when the MM turns on a travel power the pets go to Follow/Passive.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
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Uh, the tier 1 power of any secondary is forced. You don't get to opt out of it.|
Originally Posted by Atilla_The_Pun
That's not what I got from how it was announced in Beta.
My understanding was that very few took the Tier 1 power from their secondary and this is to encourage them to do so by indirectly giving them more damage as a reward. |
I'll admit that very few people were *slotting* their T1, or including it in their attack chains, but every Tanker took it.
To my mind, being unable to travel with your henchmen is a case of "balance by annoyance." I'm not entirely convinced it's even intended as a balancing mechanic.
Of course, of Group Fly and Group Teleport didn't suck so hard, this probably wouldn't be an issue, but some great power out there decided that both powers were SO GOOD they needed to be terrible. Oh, well.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I agree and disagree with this based on the scenario. Just traveling across a zone I'm with you 100%. However when street sweeping and running open missions keeping track of the henchmen and keeping them alive is a part of Mastermind Tactics 101.
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Originally Posted by Atilla_The_Pun
OK, since my last post got lured OT, let me post what I was going to post there, here.
Clear as mud?My take on Henchmen travel powers is that they should get whatever the MM is using. No bonus power, no circus parade of henchies trailing across the map to be picked off piecemeal by every spawn they wander by as their crazy boss changes directions 100s of feet away. No, they just keep up. Plain and simple. Make it even simpler if you like, when the MM turns on a travel power the pets go to Follow/Passive. |
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The problem is that when you're given something to streethunt, pretty much 90% of your time is spent looking for the damn things. Just imagine hunting 50 Carnies in Peregrine Island on a Mastermind. You'd have to fight the entire zone ten times over before you were even half-way through. On a good day.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I agree and disagree with this based on the scenario. Just traveling across a zone I'm with you 100%. However when street sweeping and running open missions keeping track of the henchmen and keeping them alive is a part of Mastermind Tactics 101.
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Outdoor missions, yeah, I'm with you on that one. You're there to kill stuff, so keeping track of your henchmen is part of game balance. But with overworld hunting, I disagree, because a large part of overworld hunting is travelling and NOT fighting.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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That's impressive, because I've never been able to choose an invisible second power choice in the secondary, where you only get one option...
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Originally Posted by Atilla_The_Pun
That's not what I got from how it was announced in Beta.
My understanding was that very few took the Tier 1 power from their secondary and this is to encourage them to do so by indirectly giving them more damage as a reward. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Sorry, posting with lack of sleep FTW.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
That's impressive, because I've never been able to choose an invisible second power choice in the secondary, where you only get one option...
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What I meant to say was the devs data mined and no one was actuallly USING the Tier 1 power.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
Was just thinking when I was just going through a zone on a Thugs/Traps MM and I got attacked...
MM's should get a power when they get a pet that despawns all of them and another one that respawns them all quickly with all their buffs. This would help if you need to travel through a zone and fight something without waiting for them to catch up/hope they are teleported to you nearby and help get through open missions without pulling things on the way.
The animations could be something along the lines of:
Thugs - Hopping onto/off of the Bruisers bike
Ninja - Smoke flashes
Necro - Being engulfed by a large cloud of darkness, emerging from another one
Demon - Jumping into/out of a large crater
Bots - Clinging to the Assault Bot as he flies off into the distance, jumping off when he lands
Merc - Grabbing onto a helicopter ladder and parachuteing in after
You would need to have dismissed them with the corresponding power to be able to summon them this way.