New Player - Need opinions on lvl24 respec (build included)

Hi all,

I'm new to CoH but I guess you could say I'm an MMO veteran, having played other MMOs for about 10 years now. I'm starting to get the hang of how this game works and my Ill/Kin controller is coming up on lvl 18 very shortly (yay phantom army!). One thing I have already realized is that I will need to respec at lvl 24 (once I can run the trial) as I made a couple of somewhat foolish choices that I would like to correct.

I've posted below an export from Mids of the build i'm thinking of respeccing to at lvl 24. Please note that the build is incomplete because i've only gone so far as lvl 24 right now. Also, I'm not sure how enhancements work in Mids yet since I just downloaded it an hour ago, so let's just assume that all the enhancements shown are lvl20 dual origins since I can get ahold of those relatively easily from the store thingie...


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 25 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(3), Dmg(5), RechRdx(7), Acc(9), Acc(17)
Level 1: Transfusion -- Heal(A), EndRdx(11)
Level 2: Spectral Wounds -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(3), Dmg(5), RechRdx(7), Acc(9), Acc(17)
Level 4: Deceive -- Conf(A), Acc(13), EndRdx(23)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(11), EndRdx(23)
Level 10: Siphon Power -- EndRdx(A), Acc(13)
Level 12: Recall Friend -- Range(A)
Level 14: Teleport -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(15), EndRdx(15)
Level 16: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(19)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(21)
Level 22: Siphon Speed -- EndRdx(A)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(25), RechRdx(25)
Level 26: [Empty]
Level 28: [Empty]
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 2: Ninja Run

oh and also, disregard ninja run... i don't know how that got in there but i don't have that power.

As the proud owner of a level 50 Ill/Kin, I'll be happy to give you my opinion on this. Take it or leave it, it's all dependent on how you play!

I'll begin by saying that in the entirety of my Ill/Kin's career I've never found a use for Deceive. Ill/Kin is a very Scrap-troller-y (if that makes sense) combo. You'll find yourself in the heat of battle, not safely at a distance. Your pets will help with that though. Here's what my build looked like, at your level (I can't access Mid's atm):

1: Blind, Transfusion
2: Spectral Wounds
4: Siphon Power
6: Flash
8: Superior Invis.
10: Siphon Speed
12: Swift/Hurdle (whichever you prefer)
14: Health
16: Recall Friend
18: Phantom Army
20: Stamina
22: Teleport
24: Speed Boost (Teams will thank and love you. Trust me on this.)

And for the rest of the way...

26: Spectral Terror
28: Hasten
30: Increase Density (Squishies will love you.)
32: Phantasm
35: Transference
38: Fulcrum Shift

I myself prefer Primal mastery. Power Boost seriously cranks up your effects, especially Transference. Full endurance for you, no endurance for targets!

41: Conserve Power
44: Temp Invulnerability
47: Power Boost
49: Energy Torrent (Does some sick AoE damage with Containment. Flash and burn!)

And there's my two cents for ya! Best of luck! If you want to reach me, send a PM here or an in-game global tell to @Insane V.

Thanks man,

I took deceive because it was my only way to tank larger spawns when soloing. I think my plan is going to be to hang onto it until I can reduce the recharge time on PA to the point where they are doing the bulk of my tanking with close to no downtime.

Although I really try not to use deceive more than necessary because it gimps my xp.

Thanks for the advice!

ok so that's a good rule of thumb. i knew i got a proportionately low amount of xp depending on how much damage i've let my confused "pets" do. i'm off to read the confuse article on the wiki and possibly adjust my strategy somewhat.

i think it's a good tool for certain situations. but i rarely use it as my main attack. also, i've heard PA is pretty much game changing so that may change my priorities a bit.

Heya! Welcome!

Firstly I'd say that if you are respeccing at 24 then you had might as well shoot for lvl25 SOs instead of DOs.

Secondly, I'm a big fan of hitting, so as a general rule I'd say slot attacks/siphons, etc. first for ACC, then everything else.

Go ahead and use Deceive when you feel like its needed until you get PA slotted up for as much recharge as you can get (stacking Siphon Speed can help here) and later Spectral Terror.

Unless it is REALLY important to your character conception, consider saving slots by taking a travel power other than Teleport. You REALLY don't need to recall Phantasm that often, usually easier to re-summon him.

Really try to not use Sup Invis while TPing...

Sup Invis does give a decent defense bonus but you'd really rather not fight in it until you can slot better. Took Sup Invis late because you really do want your other powers "on-time" (unless you give up Deceive).

Your build included the enhancement slots you would receive at 25 so I removed them. Go ahead and put one in Hasten and one in Sup Invis when you do get them.

Just my 2.5 cents. Others' mileage will vary.

GL and have fun!

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Ill/Kin 24 respec: Level 25 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- Acc(A), RechRdx(3), EndRdx(7), Dmg(9), Dmg(13)
Level 1: Transfusion -- Acc(A), Heal(5), Heal(11), Heal(13)
Level 2: Spectral Wounds -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(7), Dmg(9), EndRdx(11)
Level 4: Deceive -- Acc(A), RechRdx(5)
Level 6: Siphon Power -- Acc(A), EndRdx(15)
Level 8: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 10: Siphon Speed -- Acc(A), RechRdx(17)
Level 12: Recall Friend -- Range(A)
Level 14: Teleport -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(15), EndRdx(17)
Level 16: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- Acc(A), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(23)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(21)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(23)
Level 24: Superior Invisibility -- EndRdx(A)
Level 26: [Empty]
Level 28: [Empty]
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 2: Ninja Run

Yeah I picked Teleportation because it fits conceptually with the character and because, after trying all of the travel powers except for super speed, it seemed like the most fun. Recall friend is also super useful when I'm teaming, especially in PUGs. I'm aware it's a bit of a pig on end though, which is a shame, but this whole build is kinda an end hog which is why i went deep into fitness so early.

And no, I don't use invis while TPing... that would suck. i generally toggle it off after the first jump if i'm TPing out of a hostile area, and i'll toggle it back on before TPing to the ground if i'm going to land near baddies.

Cool beans.

for those who have been following this thread: picked up phantom army last night and boy does this change EVERYTHING. it covers large spawns i couldn't otherwise juggle as well as tough single enemies who resist mez too much.

respec is definitely in order at lvl24 and i'm glad i'll have a few levels with PA before then to get a better idea of where my priorities sit!

Sorry I missed this thread earler. I liked Aquila's build, except I would slot a few things differently. I think Flash should be delayed until later in the build, after it can be slotted up with SOs. My Ill/Kin has Fly, but Teleport is a good choice. On my first Ill/Rad, I took Recall Friend/Teleport for a simple reason -- domestic tranquility. My wife was playing at the time, and she used to get lost a lot. Recall Friend let me 'port her whenever I got to the mission (or the room or whatever) first, which happened a lot. Eventually, I got used to Teleport. He still has Teleport on his second build. Adding in Hover makes it much easier to use, but now-a-days, you can use a Raptor Pack to avoid the power pick. If you are short on slots, you can easily get by with only 1 EndRdx in Teleport . . . but you may have to take your time between 'ports until you are just about to fall.

On Phantom Army, I suggest you slot 3 Recharge first, then 1 Acc, 2 Dam. You need to six-slot that power ASAP. The primary purpose of PA is as a distraction/control power. The Damage is a nice secondary effect.

I have to comment on the discussion on Deceive. I suggest you take a look at my Illusion/Radiation guide and the section where I discuss Deceive and the misconceptions around Confuse powers. Plus, even though you are Ill/Kin, the Illusion side of the guide will help you with slotting, understanding the powers and strategy.

Deceive is a long lasting single target control that draws no aggro. It lasts twice the duration as Blind, has higher accuracy than Blind, recharges slightly faster. Not only does it completely take the foe out of the fight, it makes the foe turn around and attack his buddies, helping you defeat the foes faster. Except for the fact that the animation is a little bit longer and it does not set up Containment, Deceive is across the board a better control power than Blind. And, most important, Deceive does not draw aggro. That means that you can Deceive several foes at the beginning of a fight without drawing their attention, making them use their powers to your benefit including buffs and debuffs in some cases.

As long as you do SOME of the damage to the target of a Deceived foe, you will get MORE XP THAN YOU EARNED by doing damage to the foe. Yes, if the Deceived foe defeats a buddy, then you get no XP for a foe that you did no damage to, so you didn't deserve any XP anyway. You do not LOSE XP from Deceive. You may see a reduction in potential XP you could earn if you did all the damage yourself, but you will defeat foes faster using Deceive. That means that you can complete missions faster and get those Mission Completion bonuses. In many circumstances, using Deceive will actually earn you more XP/Time than not using it.

Deceive really shines against certain tough foes. Deceive those Eidelons before the fight begins. Deceive the Embalmed Cadavers to make them explode their buddies. Deceive Tsoo Sorcerers to make them use their Slow and Hurricane powers on the Tsoo instead of you, or to make the Caltrops thrown by the Ink guys to only work on them and not you -- that will certainly increase your killing speed! There are tons and tons of examples where use of Deceive will help the team a huge amount, and Deceive makes playing solo almost easy.

Some people claim that Deceive is too slow on a steamrolling team, and that is a legitimate claim . . . if you are up against easy foes. But using Deceive on foes with AoE debuffs and controls will help even a fast team. Deceive is the best way to deal with the hated Sappers from the Malta. Deceive a Rikti Guardian, and he will use his AM to buff you instead of the Rikti. (I did this once on a solo Rikti mission -- I went through the mission trying to get as many AM buffs as I could, and was able to get 8 of them at one time!) And you can even deceive the Rikti Drones so they don't notice you when you invisibily go by them!

Thanks Local Man. Your Ill/Rad guide was the first one i read after rolling my controller!

I agree about Confuse. I really like it's utility and for sheer entertainment value it can't be beat. Nothing like picking the biggest baddie in the group and making him do your dirty work while you pick off his friends.

I'm definitely looking at the character quite differently now that I have Phantom Army. I am right in the middle of putting together a new Mid's for my lvl24 respec as we speak. Post to follow. At the rate I play it'll probably be a few more days until I hit lvl24 so I've got some time to craft something I'll be happy with for quite a few more levels.

Here's my latest export from Mid's. Some slotting I'm still unsure of, specifically Hasten: is it worth slotting for refresh or could I use those slots in Stamina to better effect? (I tend to have pretty severe endurance issues with this character, hoping that gets much better with Stamina)

You'll notice I built it as a lvl25 build. I'm planning on doing my respec at lvl24 but won't be seriously slotting until lvl25 or beyond once I have access to SO's. Also, Inf cost likely won't allow me to go full SO for a while, but it's something to work towards. At any rate, the types of Enhancements per slot will stay the same, just their overall quality may not.


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Unassuming Gentleman v3: Level 25 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Fitness

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Spectral Wounds -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(3), Acc(5), Acc(7), RechRdx(9), Dmg(11)
Level 1: Transfusion -- Heal(A)
Level 2: Blind -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(3), Acc(5), Acc(7), RechRdx(9), Dmg(11)
Level 4: Deceive -- EndRdx(A), Acc(17)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(25), RechRdx(25)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(17)
Level 10: Siphon Speed -- RechRdx(A), Acc(13), EndRdx(13)
Level 12: Recall Friend -- Range(A)
Level 14: Teleport -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(15), EndRdx(15)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(19), Acc(21), Dmg(21), Dmg(23)
Level 20: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 22: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(23)
Level 24: Siphon Power -- RechRdx(A)
Level 26: [Empty]
Level 28: [Empty]
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Dmg(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 2: Ninja Run

Once you get Stamina slotted with SOs, you won't have nearly the endurance problems.

Spectral Wounds: 2 EndRdx is too much to me. Try 1 Acc, 3 Dam, 1 Rech, 1 EndRdx. For Blind, I would go with 2 Acc, 2 Rech, 1 Dam, 1 Hold or Endrdx.

Transfusion: Acc first, then heals and Rech. I would put more slots in this, even at the cost of SW or Blind.

Deceive: I prefer 1 Acc, 1 Rech. Then a Confuse (remember that enhancing a long duration power will have more effect). I like to 6-slot this power eventually, or 5 slot with the purple set.

Hasten: You could move it back to fit Stamina in by 20.

Superior Invis: Remember in low levels, the enhancments won't be as effective. By the time you hit SOs, your 2 EndRdx here will have a bigger effect. Still, you can turn it off during fights once they know you are there to save End. Once PA are out, they will draw the aggro.

Siphon Speed: 2 Acc, 1-3 Rech.

Teleport: You can drop a EndRdx from Teleport and use it somewhere else. Just don't be in a big hurry.

Siphon Power: I'd slot Acc first, then EndRdx -- it actually uses a lot of End.

Thanks, those are some good suggestions. I'll take another look at my build...

it's really hard for me to tell how my slotting is going to look now, since this is my first character and i'm still pre-stamina. from what i have been reading, stamina is almost as game changing as a set-defining ability like PA. if that's the case i should be able to ease up on the EndRdx and start slotting stuff that's more fun/useful (like damage, RAWR)

Sorry, I didn't read the entire thread, but I just wanted to point out that there's a lot of special uses to Deceive to consider, such as getting AM or shield buffs from Rikti Guardians or the dispersion bubble from Force Field Generators, or making sure that Malta sapper wont be a problem before the fight even starts.

Even if you don't use it all the time, there'll be moments when it's even more useful than usual.