New archetype (sniper)

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

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Make a blaster, and get stealth. Boom, you have your ranged boss killer.

They also don't have heals, or mez protection, or ponies.

Team support is many things. It depends on your definition. To me a tanker than takes Taunt and uses it, is supporting him team. A rad troller or corr, that debuffs the enemies, is supporting the team. If a brute takes the medicine power pool, and tosses out heals between mobs that's support.

Overall... I'd just have to ask... what else is there? You gave a brief overview of what you think the a set would be like, but what actual powersets would be put into this AT? New powersets completely, or can existing sets be applied? Or is this an idea for a new Epic AT? And most importantly, why is this AT needed? So you can kill bosses from range? I can already do that on my snipes scrapper, or any of my blasters.

sooo basicly a gimped blaster with hide? why not just make a blaster with the invisitibitly pool

You are wrong, not to put too fine a point on it. There are no faster boss killers than Blasters, and yes, that includes Stalkers. Melee, range or AoE, Blasters deliver the damage.

First of all, you vastly overestimate Stalkers' "fun" ambush abilities. Stalkers get one shot from hide, and that's it. From that point on, they are a gimped Scrapper. Yes, you can throw a Placate and get a critical on one more attack, which probably won't be your strongest one because your strongest one is a cone on so many powersets, but Scrappers can get criticals, too. The only reason Stalkers are playable is because they are decently good at scrapping. An AT without shields, with low hit points and with ALL INTERRUPTIBLE ATTACKS is very much entirely SOL once its health drops.

First of all, I'm pretty sure this is impossible in the current powers system. Secondly, even if we assume it's possible, there is no way in hell you will ever be given a high-damage attack which can generate full experience and yet generates no risk. This will not happen. The only effect in the game which generates no aggro and has the potential to deal damage is Confuse, and that does not give you any experience if you just sit back and let confused enemies kill each other.

Blasters have:

*Repulsion Field, which is AoE toggle knockback.
*Power Push, which 100% single-target high-mag knockback
*Smoke Grenade, which is... A smoke bomb.
*Full Auto, which has the chance to deal a critical hit.
*Auto Turret, which acts as a decoy and is pretty hard to kill.

Need I go on? Blasters have enough toys if that's what you want. Having these toys is not an excuse to design a gimped, gimmick AT.

Which is what Blaster secondaries are described as at character creation.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Scrappers and Stalkers do more damage than Blasters even without critting. Not really sure where you are coming from with that statement. Nothing in the game comes close to a Stalker's alpha. How can a Blaster kill a boss faster than a Stalker if a buffed Stalker can kill a boss in one hit?

Stalkers out of hide aren't gimped Scrappers any more. I dunno when it changed but it could be argued their damage output is even higher than Scrappers now. Scrapper attacks do about 15% more base damage, but Stalkers on a full team have 31% chance to crit on every attack out of hide compared to the 5% or 10% Scrappers get. 115x1.1=126.5 vs 100x1.31=131. That's ideal circumstances though, obviously most of the time not everyone will be 30m from the stalker.

Also if you take a defense based secondary on your stalker and slot some recharge you can easily pull off multiple assassinations per fight even if you have agro.

I think the necessary coding is there as it allows Stalkers to remain hidden and agro free if their assassination attack misses. Also current snipe attacks + hover already accomplish that on any enemy group that doesn't have fly (which is a lot of them, especially at lower levels). You get agro sure, but they can't do anything about it and just run around jumping up and down nearby trees or lamp posts.

All that said, I don't really see the reason of making a new AT for this. At most maybe a few new powersets for blasters, like a full Sniper Rifle set (with a stealth power right in there), and maybe a Laser beam set, both simply focusing on slower, longer range attacks that hit really hard.

ok. which would you prefer?

more dam + higher end
more dam + longer cast time
more dam + longer recharge
more dam + higher end + longer cast time + longer recharge

now which do you think the devs would do?

Meh, I use my snipe all the time on my Rad blaster (even solo, I'll use it multiple times per fight). They're still quite viable even in the middle of combat, it's just knowing when and when not to use them. In order for them to 'fix' snipes to let them one-shot a lieutennant, they'd have to quadruple the endurance cost, because pretty much everyone would be using the snipe as an opener and not using it again until the next spawn.

No, the only thing they'd "need" to do to make snipes more enticing to players is go the 'bruising' rout; where snipes reduce enemy damage resistance (no matter what set you're playing).

A Stalker's Assassin's Strike deals 7.0 Scale Damage all told. With a base damage mod of 1.0, three level 50 damage commons' worth of 99.08% and Build Up's worth of 100%, you get a total of 20.9356 scale damage over 3.76s.

A Blaster with a ranged damage mod of 1.125, with Aim at 62.5%, Build Up at 100% and the same slotting at 99.08% will do... Let's see... Let's take my favourite combo: Blaze + Fire Blast. Together, the two powers deal 3.12 (2.12 for Blaze, 1.0 for Fire Blast) Scale damage and animate in 2.56 seconds one after the other. With the above, they deal 12.691458 right out the gate.

Or let's be cheeky. Let's do one better. Blaze + Fire Sword. Blaze is 2.12 scale damage and Fire Sword is 2.36, but it's on a lower damage mod of 1.0. Let's calculate. That's 17.156971 scale damage over 2.33 seconds to the Stalker's 3.76.

What's more, AFTER the Stalker has expended his Assassin's Strike and delivered ONE hit, what then? Back to basic attacks, the highest of which is I think Head Splitter at 2.62 scale damage at 1.0 damage mod. In the meantime, a Blaster can keep churning out serious damage with both Aim and Build Up AND a higher damage mod.

I'm not sure what a "buffed-up Stalker" can do, but I used to routinely down bosses in about 10 seconds with my Blaster, and I didn't need special conditions to do it, merely that I do not die, which Tankers and Defenders easily provided. There is a serious problem with Stalkers, in that they're one-trick ponies, and their one trick is not all that extrodinary. It looks really impressive when you hit someone for 1000, but a Blaster can pull off a combo such that will make your head spin on a regular basis, with no windup and no interruptibility. I don't know if Stalkers have more short-term burst damage (they probably do), but I'm saying that Blasters are damn close, and they can do it more easily, more consistently and with less setup. Not all Blasters, obviously, but enough can.

I'm not really sure what you're counting here, but that's a bit off. Stalkers have a base 10% chance to score a critical, which goes up 3% for each team member IN MELEE RANGE OF THE STALKER. I know it doesn't say that anywhere, but it is. So you're rarely going to get that in full. As well, Stalkers have a 1.0 scale damage mod to Scrappers' 1.125. I know the critical damage portion is supposed to even things out, but it really doesn't. Stalkers still deal less damage out of hide and still have fewer hit points. Stalkers also lack AoE almost of any kind, giving up their AoEs for Assassin's Strike.

That may make them good boss killers, but again - not out of Hide. And I never said they're BAD at it. I just said they're not nearly as good to reign supreme over all other ATs in boss killing.

Or, as it usually happened to me when I tried it, suffer multiple instances of wasted time and endurance when I was interrupted. That's Assassin's Strike balancing mechanic. If Stalkers could pull off multiple assassionations as easily as a Blaster can just wail on the damage, I wouldn't argue, but Stalkers are very reliant on not being interrupted. This means DoT, such as that from Longbow Flamethrowers, Tsoo Caltrops, Spectral Chill of the Night and so on are problematic. You can still easily scrap and probably even pull off a Placate critical if you're fast enough, but assassinating a boss multiple times isn't a given. Not even when someone else has his aggro.

Except combating "hoversniping" is the primary reason all NPCs were given ranged attacks, and why all powersets in the Architect had one appended to them that you couldn't turn off. That's also why most enemies outrange Blasters with snipe at any enhancement level. Wolves got stunning boulders for this precise reason, in fact. They didn't use to, but the Blasters picked at them from the air, so they got a needlessly brutal ranged attack, too. I wish my Hurl stunned like that.

Again - look at Confuse. Confuse does exactly what's being described here, and confuse removes experience from your kills. IF you get such an attack, you can bet it will take away a proportional amount of experience to the damage it does.

Designing such a set is problematic for Blasters for two reasons:

1. Stealth means crap. Even ignoring all the things that see through it, once you gain aggro, stealth does not work. You can re-stealth and the enemies will still find you. Even with Placate as an option, Stalkers are a good example why you CAN'T rely on being hidden in combat unless you waste a substantial amount of time running away.

2. Range means very little. Attacks that pay in performance for the return of greater range are tremendous ripoffs. Anything above 80 feet is largely pointess on single-target attacks. Enemies will simply close in on you once you shoot them. And unless we're suggesting that this set only works with Hover, it won't work.

Furthermore, Blasters are probably the game's single greatest source of AoE. Even sets like Ice and Electric, which suck at AoE, are still better than what most other ATs can output. A "sniper" set as a Blaster primary, therefore, will not be very useful. All you'll do is spend a lot of time animating slow attacks, shooting at things that have already been killed and being interrupted.

I'm not against the idea here, but I just don't think this is mechanically feasible.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Either way the Stalkers one initial attack is doing more damage than 2 great Blaster attacks by your own words, but then you seem to forget that Stalkers have a whole range of other attacks to use that do more damage than Blaster attacks. What will a Stalker do after assassinating a target and leaving hide? What about Bone Smasher, Energy Transfer and Total Focus? Heck, a Stalker's Barrage does more up front damage than a Blaster's Fire Blast (which overall is 30% DoT damage over 4 seconds) even with the Blaster using Aim. Each Stalker set has several other high damage attacks that do more damage than Blaster attacks. Melee damage is simply superior to ranged damage.

Generally red inspirations are also involved, and most Blasters wait to attack until initial agro has been established by melee characters, then it's very rare for a Blaster to start with single target attacks against a boss when they could instead AoE all the minions down like nobody else.

It's not melee range, it's 30 meters. It's not hard or rare to get most of the team into a 60m area, especially if there's an AoE healer on the team.

They do reign supreme in boss killing, maybe not by miles but they have a clear advantage, it was originally pretty much their entire purpose. I played my stalker back when their melee damage scale was crap and they couldn't scrap out of a wet paper bag, back then their only reason for being on a team was to assassinate bosses.

Not sure what you are doing then. My main is a NB/N Stalker and I have no problem getting off 2-3 Assassin's Blades per fight. Occasionally I get interrupted by some AoE I failed to dodge, but that doesn't reset the CD so I just try again right away. I can even reliably use it multiple times while solo with minions whiffing at me.

Simply not true. Most enemies do indeed have a ranged attack, and many were added to help them fight back against flying players, however the vast majority of these attacks are limited to 80-100m. Using snipe from 150m in the air (against a non-flying target) is completely safe in almost all circumstances. It's a crappy attack and it might take 4 or 5+ shots over a minute long period to kill a boss later in the game, but it works and you get full exp.

I would say it should very depending on the set, but since a snipe is a pull and/or opener and seldom used in the middle of a fight (hasn't stopped me from doing it, and surprisingly pulling it off, even after being hit mid-cast) even the forth one sounds damn good if the raised damage value could let us one shot an even con Lt.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

This is not even remotely true. Blaster Bone Smasher is scale 2.6, Stalker Bone Smasher has a damage mod of 1.64. Blaster Energy Punch is scale 1.96, while Stalker Energy Punch is 1.0. And again - all Stalkers have after their initial Assassin's Strike is weak attacks. Energy Melee is an exception, as it has both Energy Transfer and Total Focus, granted, but everything else is very much the rule. Broadsword has Head Splitter at 2.62 and Disembowel at 1.96, for instance, and both of them are slow. I'm not sure how you figure that each Stalker Set has attacks stronger than Blaster attacks when that's patently untrue, ESPECIALLY in the face of significantly higher damage buffs from Aim and Build Up AND in the face of significantly more strong attacks available to a Blaster than to anything else in the entire game.

Every Blaster combo that isn't Devices has at least two very serious heavy-hitters in melee, and many sets have a collection of smaller attacks, too. Energy Manipulation, in fact, has Charged Brawl, Havoc Punch, Thunder Strike and Shocking Grasp at 1.96, 2.6, 3.0 and 1.8, respectively, and even something as simple as Electric Fence is 1.0 scale damage. Other than Energy Melee, most Stalker sets hover around 1.64, if that. They may or may not have a single heavy hitter, such as Greater Fire Sword, but the bulk of their sets in and of themselves don't hit nearly as hard as your standard Blaster melee attacks, and they have the same damage mod. On top of that, Blasters have hard-hitting ranged attacks to add to this, and if you really felt like it, a 2.76 scale damage snipe with a 1.125 damage mod on it. True, Snipes suck and should not be used for damage, but they're there.

Stalkers get out-scrapped by Scrappers and Blasters, and I'm not saying this just on numbers analysis. I have enough Stalkers, Scrappers and Blasters to know. Stalkers work well when striking from Hide, but they get one, at most two hits like that, and then they are forced to either scrap at a lower damage mod, or run away to hide, wasting colossal amounts of time. Yes, they are still good at what they do, and I still play mine - I'm not saying they suck. But making an AT that's like a Stalker, only MUCH WORSE at Scrapping than what is already struggling in that category is not a good idea.

I take it you don't play a lot of Blasters, then. Because your rules of thumb do not in any way, shape or form reflect reality for a Blaster as I play it or as I've seen it played. The "tank, healer, damage dealer" mentality that you seem to covet really doesn't have much place here. And then there's the solo game...

Which there usually isn't, because few people care to wait for a "healer" or huddle in range of Healing Aura put on auto. Most people build to take care of themselves well enough to not need to be babied - and yes, that's including Blasters - so you won't really see them huddling outside of an AV fight. Plus, even if you had "an AoE healer," what the devil would that "healer" be doing face-up against a Tanker tanking a Face Nemesis, where he'll be eating Nemesis Staff AoE for no reason? If people honestly do that, I ain't seen it, and the few times I've seen it attempted it has led to a lot of dead Defenders. "Healers" aren't vital enough to put lot-damage ATs in the middle of a melee.

Back then there was no reason to take Stalkers on a team, in fact. And the teaming scene reflected that. The primary reason Castle even messed with Stalkers was just that - no-one ever wanted to team with a Stalker because there's nothing a Stalker brought to a team that pretty much everyone else couldn't beat or exceed. A Brute with enough Fury could match a Stalker hit-for-hit and survive significantly better, just as a random fact. The changes did alleviate that somewhat, but I still very rarely see Stalkers on teams and, even playing mine, I can see why. Stalkers don't "reign supreme" in boss killing. They're simply good at it, which while it is a boon for the AT, is hardly an exclusive field. A Brute can just as easily play boss killer, and while a Brute might take slightly longer to do it, it makes little difference because the boss will still not threaten the rest of the team. Furthermore, a Brute will throw in things like Foot Stomp, Tremor, Pendulum, Fire Sword Circle and so forth, wiping out minions in the process of killing a boss, anyway. That's something a Stalker couldn't do, partly because Stalkers lack any meaningful AoE, and partly because their AoE attacks have a very unreliable chance to score hidden criticals.

And again - Stalkers scrape by on shock value and brand loyalty, and they do reasonably well. An AT that's like Stalkers, but unable to scrap will bomb. Hard.

Simply put, I get interrupted. Too many enemies firing too many times occasionally forces some small attack through my shields and interrupts me. That's three seconds' worth of interruptible attack. It's nothing to sneeze at. And that's only on sets with defences, which is what? Ninjutsu, Super Reflexes and Energy Aura. What about Dark Armour, Regeneration, Electrical Aura, Willpower? And again - even in those cases, you have to sit on your hands for eight seconds, then animate three and a half more. That's 7.0 scale damage in 11.67 seconds. In 11.67 seconds on a Ninja Blade character, I can do Golden Dragonfly -> Gambler's Cut -> Soaring Dragon -> Sting of the Wasp -> Gambler's Cut -> Flashing Steel -> Divine Avalanche -> Gambler's cut, still take only around 10 seconds seconds and still do 9.59 scale damage. And that's if I don't score any criticals, mind you AND only counting one target, which with Golden Dragonfly and Flashing Steel may not necessarily be the case.

Assassin's Strike has that "Boom! Headshot!" feel to it, I will admit, but the overwhelming majority of time, just like a basic snipe, it is not useful in a fight. Not as useful as just standing your ground and scrapping. It's not worth the risk, and it's definitely not worth the cost of restarting it multiple times. And how DO you restart it after you get hit, interrupted and your hide breaks, incidentally?

And I can guarantee you that as soon as people actually start using snipes like this, changes will be made to curtail it, as has been done before. The only reason this is currently possible is because snipe attacks suck big-time. As soon as someone figure out how to level off them with no risk, if that were even possible, you'll see changes.

But OK, let's go with your hypothesis. Let's say such an attack were, in fact, doable. What possible purpose could it serve? What purpose, other than to endlessly cheap-shot hard enemies with no aggro? Because I can guarantee you that such an attack with such a defined purpose will not be allowed. Snipe attacks have that as a side benefit because of how they're designed. But if you think an attack will be INTENTIONALLY designed like this, it is you who are wrong.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

So in other words, you want an AT that's best used against one member of any given spawn?