(request) dual blades explaination
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2010-08-29 23:22 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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It is not necessary to use the combos to get any use out of Dual Blades and, if you have the massive levels of recharge required for it (more than perma-Hasten levels, iirc), it's actually optimal for you to ignore the combos in favor of a better attack string. However, for a vast majority of play, it's going to be better for you to make sure that you get some use out of the better combos (Sweep, Attack Vitals). You can pretty easily get away without touching the earlier, crappy combos (Weaken, Empower) because they don't really generate much of a payout for the use of suboptimal attacks.
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Originally Posted by Mijinion
whether dual blades combos are "necessary" meaning does the use of combos make or break the powerset
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The combos help, but they aren't absolutely necessary. Empower and Weaken are useful at low levels but you probably won't use them once you get the higher tier attacks. Sweep is handy for AoE damage but is skippable... Attack Vitals has some AoE and Typhoon's Edge by itself is still pretty good without having to use the very long animating 1K Cuts.
The best combo is Attack Vitals. Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals is pretty much the best attack chain Dual Blades can produce without massive recharge. If you do have massive recharge, on the other hand, no combo can match BF -> Sweeping -> Ablating (and I think one or two other high recharge chains). But that sort of recharge is very hard to get, since I think you need above perma-Hasten levels. For normal builds BF -> AV (and optionally adding Sweep for large groups) is as good as it gets.
Essentially, Sweep boosts the final Typhoon's Edge damage by 50% and adds KD, Attack Vitals adds a DoT to Sweeping Strike that increases its damage by around 60%, Empower boosts Blinding Feint's buff by about a third, and Weaken adds a defense debuff and a 7.5% to-hit debuff (which is actually quite nice if you are using a defense based armor set). The big reason to use Attack Vitals is that any decent attack chain that doesn't have massive recharge is going to use all the component attacks anyway, so you might as well get free damage by using them in the right order. Adding non-optimal attacks to a chain just to get the combo bonus gets a lot more debatable, which is why you won't see Weaken or Empower much at high levels. Nimble Slash just isn't that good an attack, so adding it hurts DPS even if it does give you some bonuses.
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Get the AV combo and call it good. It's the only real "need" one. It also lets you kind of work your way into the set not having to worry about combos early on.
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Sweep is damn good to, and I can't see why anyone wouldn't want it. 1kC might have a long animation, but it's excellent damage over a large (for melee) cone, while TE+Sweep is a great PBAoE. Sweep is gonna do far more AoE damage than anything else you have, and given that, in CoH, AoE is the name of the game, skipping it is a waste of DB's potential.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Get the AV combo and call it good. It's the only real "need" one. It also lets you kind of work your way into the set not having to worry about combos early on.
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It really depends on what the point of your build is and how tight it is. The AV combo is still capable of putting out respectable AoE DPS while being substantially more useful against hard targets thanks to Sweeping Strike being a cone. The difference is largely in the fact that, in order to get much use out of Sweep, you have to take 2 more powers and slot up 3 more than you would otherwise (assuming you took Power Slice as a default and either ignored or set muled it like most do). Sweep is a nice combo, but when you're talking tight builds that can only manage to take 5 attack powers at most, Sweep can get left out due to build constraints.
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Originally Posted by PhroX
Sweep is damn good to, and I can't see why anyone wouldn't want it. 1kC might have a long animation, but it's excellent damage over a large (for melee) cone, while TE+Sweep is a great PBAoE. Sweep is gonna do far more AoE damage than anything else you have, and given that, in CoH, AoE is the name of the game, skipping it is a waste of DB's potential.
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I suppose for a specialist build where AoE isn't important (say, AV soloing), but for a general "do everything" build, I can't see a situation where other powers would be better than TE and 1kC.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
It really depends on what the point of your build is and how tight it is. The AV combo is still capable of putting out respectable AoE DPS while being substantially more useful against hard targets thanks to Sweeping Strike being a cone. The difference is largely in the fact that, in order to get much use out of Sweep, you have to take 2 more powers and slot up 3 more than you would otherwise (assuming you took Power Slice as a default and either ignored or set muled it like most do). Sweep is a nice combo, but when you're talking tight builds that can only manage to take 5 attack powers at most, Sweep can get left out due to build constraints.
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Does any of this advice change if the character in question is a tank, considering the new Bruising effect built into Nimble Strike, and considering as a tank I'm forced to take it. =)
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Not really. My Inv/DB makes use of the BF->AV chain for most of the game and adds in the two other AoE's when I'm in a big mob. Nimble might be okay against bosses or the like, but given the aoe savagery of the set I don't usually aim for hard targets. Not to mention you'd have to throw a slot or two in there to make it reliable. I don't use Sweep on my tanker, but mainly because the attacks I have work well, and I'm already forced to to take Nimble Strike (which I don't use).
While I like Bruising, I don't think I'd go out of my way to utilize it, especially since there are so many good choices in the set that could use the slots.
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@Starflier
my whole point is that im making a ?/invulnerable or electric aura, brute
with a focus on resistance and was wondering if i could take dual blades just to look cool
or if it would mess up my focus by "needing" the combos
as it sounds like a case of "you dont "need" them, but its still kinda useful"
ill give'r a shot
thanx yall
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In a teaming situation most Scrappers or Brutes (not counting the ones with heavy AoE primaries) are generally better off killing bosses than trying to AoE down minions. Let the Blasters, Corruptors, or damage focused Controllers handle the masses while you focus on the things that hit hardest. That's not to say Sweep isn't useful, but on a tight build like DB/SR you may not want to take and slot up seven attack powers. I personally like taking Blinding Feint, the three Attack Vitals powers, and Typhoon's Edge (plus one of the initial powers which is just a set mule if slotted at all)... that gives me the best general purpose attack chain plus some extra AoE for situations where I'm surrounded. But in general no matter how good Sweep is it's still a melee range PBAoE... 40-50 foot cones and 15-20 foot radius blasts will clear the minions a lot faster.|
Originally Posted by PhroX
I suppose for a specialist build where AoE isn't important (say, AV soloing), but for a general "do everything" build, I can't see a situation where other powers would be better than TE and 1kC.
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Of course if you want to solo large spawns or are playing a Dual Blades Tanker then by all means take Sweep, but if you go the "smaller groups of really tough stuff" route then you can skip it for more powers that keep you alive when +4 bosses are punching you in the face.
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Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
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With DB/Elec aka the Electric Blender the sweep combo can come in quite handy in both damage mitigation vs large spawns as well as keeping those spawns in your damage arua instead of running away when they get low on health. With DB/Invuln Attack Vitals combo should be plenty. I have both on my DB just for the sake of flexability depending on what I am facing. I have enough recharge that I could spam either one depending on the situation.
i was hoping someone could CONSTRUCTIVELY explain to me
whether dual blades combos are "necessary" meaning does the use of combos make or break the powerset
or is it somewhat minor, and completely do-able without much or any set back from not using combos?
for the trollers, i must state that i am in no way saying anything negative or positive about the dual blades set, it is a... well, not so simple question
but a question none the less and expresses no opinion what so ever