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I'm gonna bite: how does one go about optimizing Shield Defense's DDR?
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Originally Posted by Werner
Yes, the game IS so easy that you don't need IOs. I suspect the vast majority just level up their characters with whatever comes to hand, then retire. Of the people who like playing their 50s, probably a lot of them aspire to good IOs, but probably very few people understand things like how to soft cap defense and cap defense debuff resistance on a Shield Defense character, which is what makes it (in my opinion) stomp a bit on Super Reflexes. Very few people have the budget to do it, even if they understand how. So the percentage of Shield players in game that are running soft-capped builds with capped DDR is probably minuscule.
Yes, that would be the ideal. But as a dev, I'm going to spend most of my balancing effort on the perhaps 99% of players that don't have multi-billion level 50 min/max builds, not on the 1% of players that do. Even with that in mind, I think they've done a very good job of balancing for the 1% of players as well. But it isn't and shouldn't be their focus. Yes, but it could easily be argued that this would be overpowered. Super Reflexes is already an EXCELLENT set, and Elude probably provides good benefit already for the vast majority of players, all those people who haven't already built for 45% defense to all. You don't buff good powers in excellent sets just because the powergamers find that power largely useless (which brings us back to the 99% vs. 1% idea). You buff the powers and sets that are lagging, like what they did with Fiery Aura and Martial Arts. |
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Membranes IIRC (not at the right PC atm) and plenty of recharge.|
Originally Posted by Reiska
I'm gonna bite: how does one go about optimizing Shield Defense's DDR?
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edit: might be enzymes
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It's Membranes. Enzymes are a different "cheat", which has confused me before as well.|
Originally Posted by Emberly
Membranes IIRC (not at the right PC atm) and plenty of recharge.
edit: might be enzymes |
Active Defense has 17.3% defense debuff resistance. You can't slot defense IOs or sets in it, so on the surface, you can't enhance the DDR. But there's a "cheat" - you CAN slot Hamios in the power, specifically Membranes. Membranes give you both recharge and defense, and that defense enhances the defense debuff resistance in the power. Three level 50 Membranes take it to 27.7% defense debuff resistance while also giving it +95% recharge. Now you pile on the global recharge until you knock the recharge time of the power down to 60 seconds or less. You then have a perma double stack of Active Defense, and the defense debuff resistance stacks with it. So now that one power is giving you 55.4% defense debuff resistance. Slotting up Battle Agility and Grant Cover gives you another 38.3% or so. Put together, you get 93.7% DDR, almost capped. Adding another Membrane or bumping up the level of the Membranes can get you the rest of the way if you desire.
Now I've described this as a "cheat", as it probably wasn't intended by the devs, and perhaps it will be taken away some day. However, I've also heard that they've said, basically, "Hamio 'exploits' are now an accepted part of the game." My take on that is that there's often very little reason to slot Hamios EXCEPT for this sort of "exploit", and it isn't particularly overpowered compared to set IOs most of the time, so it's just considered business as usual now.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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elude is good in pvp but other than that .... well ill put it like this , if your about to die an u gotta pop teir 9 you are already dead elude doesnt really help "softcapped toons " even tho i like the increased speed.
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I'm gonna guess that the one with Enzymes involves the fact that Defense Debuff is schedule A and Defense Buff is schedule B.
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Originally Posted by Werner
It's Membranes. Enzymes are a different "cheat", which has confused me before as well.
Active Defense has 17.3% defense debuff resistance. You can't slot defense IOs or sets in it, so on the surface, you can't enhance the DDR. But there's a "cheat" - you CAN slot Hamios in the power, specifically Membranes. Membranes give you both recharge and defense, and that defense enhances the defense debuff resistance in the power. Three level 50 Membranes take it to 27.7% defense debuff resistance while also giving it +95% recharge. Now you pile on the global recharge until you knock the recharge time of the power down to 60 seconds or less. You then have a perma double stack of Active Defense, and the defense debuff resistance stacks with it. So now that one power is giving you 55.4% defense debuff resistance. Slotting up Battle Agility and Grant Cover gives you another 38.3% or so. Put together, you get 93.7% DDR, almost capped. Adding another Membrane or bumping up the level of the Membranes can get you the rest of the way if you desire. Now I've described this as a "cheat", as it probably wasn't intended by the devs, and perhaps it will be taken away some day. However, I've also heard that they've said, basically, "Hamio 'exploits' are now an accepted part of the game." My take on that is that there's often very little reason to slot Hamios EXCEPT for this sort of "exploit", and it isn't particularly overpowered compared to set IOs most of the time, so it's just considered business as usual now. |
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Exactly. Due to peculiarities of how everything was coded, a defense debuff enhancement in a defense power enhances defense. So by using Enzymes, you get a much higher defensive value out of that single slot than you can in any other way. You're still capped by ED, but it can help you to conserve slots in some builds.
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Originally Posted by Reiska
I'm gonna guess that the one with Enzymes involves the fact that Defense Debuff is schedule A and Defense Buff is schedule B.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Not doubting you, but I'd like some confirmation of this--Have they directly or indirectly stated this and I missed it? I sometimes unsub and don't pay attention to the game for months on end, so I might've missed it, but last I knew it was an exploit they looked down on and were hoping to fix one day. |
Originally Posted by Werner
However, I've also heard that they've said, basically, "Hamio 'exploits' are now an accepted part of the game."
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If it's more 'accepted' now that's great, as when I slot my KM/SD I won't have to hold back from doing it, but I'd like to be sure.
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I believe the devs consider this to be a bug, but not a punishable exploit. However, I wouldn't fall in love with it. In theory, they added tech intended for the Incarnate system that *could* fix this problem at any time if they decided to retrofit for it. If they do, I believe the devs have the right to do so without warning or explanation, because it is still technically acknowledged as a bug.|
Originally Posted by Werner
Now I've described this as a "cheat", as it probably wasn't intended by the devs, and perhaps it will be taken away some day. However, I've also heard that they've said, basically, "Hamio 'exploits' are now an accepted part of the game." My take on that is that there's often very little reason to slot Hamios EXCEPT for this sort of "exploit", and it isn't particularly overpowered compared to set IOs most of the time, so it's just considered business as usual now.
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Anyone who thinks the devs should provide ample warning before making such a change, should consider this ample warning. I have no knowledge of the devs actually considering this, but the fact that the technology exists to fix it now and the devs' primary reason for not addressing the problem in the past was a lack of tech to do so should cause everyone to assume this bug is no longer a safe bet in the long term. Whether it happens tomorrow or two years from now, it should not come as a surprise to anyone.
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I can't seem to find the quote, but I believe Castle or another dev said sometime around I12 (because I specifically remember the topic being about Membranes enhancing the recharge time of Mind Link) that such slotting oddities were more or less now considered benefits of Hamis to provide some incentive over IOs.
If that sort of thing is ever fixed there are going to be a lot of pissed-off VEATs...
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Considering how long this stuff has been in i would consider it a feature rather than a exploit. I remember starting my sonic fender and instantly getting the tip to 2 slot centrioles in the shields.
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Thanks for the clarification Arcana. It'd be cool if you could get things like more Defense Debuff resistance via Incarnate slots, though..
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I believe the devs consider this to be a bug, but not a punishable exploit. However, I wouldn't fall in love with it. In theory, they added tech intended for the Incarnate system that *could* fix this problem at any time if they decided to retrofit for it. If they do, I believe the devs have the right to do so without warning or explanation, because it is still technically acknowledged as a bug.
Anyone who thinks the devs should provide ample warning before making such a change, should consider this ample warning. I have no knowledge of the devs actually considering this, but the fact that the technology exists to fix it now and the devs' primary reason for not addressing the problem in the past was a lack of tech to do so should cause everyone to assume this bug is no longer a safe bet in the long term. Whether it happens tomorrow or two years from now, it should not come as a surprise to anyone. |
My first toon was a MA/SR and I have never been without elude, but with io's ive been debating it. Personaly I like it for conept( A burst of extreme reflexes) but do you need it because of the defense with io's nowdays? Not really, I do enjoy the running speed and endurance but elude is something I dont think I could ever give up because ive been stuck with it way too long.