As far as I can see, the only trick to maximizing the stacking Siphon buffs is executing six attacks in each ten-second interval, which is easy enough. Beyond that, there's no reason to overuse QS, since it's a drag on DPA relative to the other three attacks. For my build plan which has almost perma-Hasten level recharge, I'm planning to use:
BB>SB>QS>BB>SB>CS (9.6sec)
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You actually don't need perma-hasten to do that attack chain. You just need around 55% global recharge. Any more than that is overkill unless you have a super recharge-intensive secondary like /Regen or if you plan on going rogue for Soul Mastery to dip into Shadow Meld. I'm liking it more and more as I build scrappers with the new restrictions. A clicky to soak up alphas is just what most sets need (like Fire) to survive big spawns.
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Originally Posted by Chaos_String
As far as I can see, the only trick to maximizing the stacking Siphon buffs is executing six attacks in each ten-second interval, which is easy enough. Beyond that, there's no reason to overuse QS, since it's a drag on DPA relative to the other three attacks. For my build plan which has almost perma-Hasten level recharge, I'm planning to use:
BB>SB>QS>BB>SB>CS (9.6sec) |
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As a matter of fact, it's a KM/Regen build with Shadow Meld.
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Originally Posted by Deft_Bow
You actually don't need perma-hasten to do that attack chain. You just need around 55% global recharge. Any more than that is overkill unless you have a super recharge-intensive secondary like /Regen or if you plan on going rogue for Soul Mastery to dip into Shadow Meld.
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So what's the recharge needed specifically for BB and SB? Those are the only two you'd need to work on for that combo.|
Originally Posted by Deft_Bow
You actually don't need perma-hasten to do that attack chain. You just need around 55% global recharge. Any more than that is overkill unless you have a super recharge-intensive secondary like /Regen or if you plan on going rogue for Soul Mastery to dip into Shadow Meld. I'm liking it more and more as I build scrappers with the new restrictions. A clicky to soak up alphas is just what most sets need (like Fire) to survive big spawns.
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I think KM is a lot easier to find a chain in the fact you're not trying to spam CS but rather place it for the largest Siphon buff.
But wondering if the duration of the individual damage buffs will still be at 5 by the time you use CS? I was thinking its only 7.5 sec per buff?
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For the chain I posted, the requirements are:|
Originally Posted by Reverence
So what's the recharge needed specifically for BB and SB? Those are the only two you'd need to work on for that combo.
I think KM is a lot easier to find a chain in the fact you're not trying to spam CS but rather place it for the largest Siphon buff. |
CS: 204%
SB: 195%
BB: 100%
QS: 0%
Damage per activation time:
QS 69.6
BB 74.6
SB 84.9
RT 27.6
Bu 32.2
FB 56.5
CS 78.7
So, for single target damage you are looking at BB, SB and CS
The combined animation/activation time for those is 5.1s, However, adding a second SB in your chain will increase your overall damage. So I was looking at: SB>BB>SB>CS> for 506.3
before enhancements in a 6.3s time frame. Your first 6 attacks will be completed in 8.57s
That means that you would have to drop SB's recharge down to 2.27s which can be done without Hasten. You actually need a tad more to drop CS down to 6.3s, which can be done without hasten.
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According to my calculations, adjusted for Arcanatime, the ST attacks have the following DPS:|
Originally Posted by Beelzy
Damage per activation time:
QS 69.6 BB 74.6 SB 84.9 RT 27.6 Bu 32.2 FB 56.5 CS 78.7 So, for single target damage you are looking at BB, SB and CS The combined animation/activation time for those is 5.1s, However, adding a second SB in your chain will increase your overall damage. So I was looking at: SB>BB>SB>CS> for 506.3 before enhancements in a 6.3s time frame. Your first 6 attacks will be completed in 8.57s That means that you would have to drop SB's recharge down to 2.27s which can be done without Hasten. You actually need a tad more to drop CS down to 6.3s, which can be done without hasten. |
QS: 54.7
BB: 60.4
SB: 70.1
CS: 74.2
Also note that to chain SB>BB>SB>CS, you will need 430% rehcarge in SB, which is impossible.
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Unless I'm mistaken, each buff lasts 10sec.
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Originally Posted by Reverence
But wondering if the duration of the individual damage buffs will still be at 5 by the time you use CS? I was thinking its only 7.5 sec per buff?
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I got my calculations by taking average damage divided by activation time. My numbers are based on Mids, will double check in-game when I get home from the in-laws in about an hour or two.
For recharge times you have to reduce from 7 to 2.27 for BS, which is possible, and for CS you have to reduce from 20 to 6.3. That is a reduction by a factor of 3, which can be done without Hasten. I'll drop a build here after I get home.
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The chain you mentioned, SB>BB>SB>CS, requires SB to recharge during the animation of BB. SB has a base recharge of 7sec, and BB has an Arcanatime activation of 1.32sec.|
Originally Posted by Beelzy
I got my calculations by taking average damage divided by activation time. My numbers are based on Mids, will double check in-game when I get home from the in-laws in about an hour or two.
For recharge times you have to reduce from 7 to 2.27 for BS, which is possible, and for CS you have to reduce from 20 to 6.3. That is a reduction by a factor of 3, which can be done without Hasten. I'll drop a build here after I get home. |
7/1.32=5.303; 5.303-1 = 4.303 or 430% recharge enhancement. Not gonna happen.
Also, CS must recharge during the animations of SB>BB>SB. SB has an Arcanatime of 1.452sec and as before, BB has an Arcanatime of 1.32sec, for a total of 4.224sec. That's how fast CS will need to recharge. It has a base recharge time of 20sec.
20/4.224=4.734; 4.734-1=3.734, or 374% recharge enhancement. Also won't happen.
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I apologize. I didn't realize that they changed it so that recharge started at the end of activation rather than at the beginning|
Originally Posted by Chaos_String
The chain you mentioned, SB>BB>SB>CS, requires SB to recharge during the animation of BB. SB has a base recharge of 7sec, and BB has an Arcanatime activation of 1.32sec.
7/1.32=5.303; 5.303-1 = 4.303 or 430% recharge enhancement. Not gonna happen. Also, CS must recharge during the animations of SB>BB>SB. SB has an Arcanatime of 1.452sec and as before, BB has an Arcanatime of 1.32sec, for a total of 4.224sec. That's how fast CS will need to recharge. It has a base recharge time of 20sec. 20/4.224=4.734; 4.734-1=3.734, or 374% recharge enhancement. Also won't happen. |
However, BB has an arcanatime of 1.202, SB of 1.332, making the combo even harder to pull off.
Do you know when they changed the recharge? I remember, particularly on my Kheldian, attacks recharging before the power had completed its activation... I missed an update post somewhere...
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AFAIK, recharge has always begun at the completion of a power's activation. If at one point this was not the case, it was before I ever began computing attack chains, which was a couple years ago. Not sure what was going on with your Kheldian.|
Originally Posted by Beelzy
I apologize. I didn't realize that they changed it so that recharge started at the end of activation rather than at the beginning
However, BB has an arcanatime of 1.202, SB of 1.332, making the combo even harder to pull off. Do you know when they changed the recharge? I remember, particularly on my Kheldian, attacks recharging before the power had completed its activation... I missed an update post somewhere... |
There was a point during beta when the KM attacks had activation times which were very different from their rooted times. I believe what was happening was that the animation team were working on the fluidity of the animations when KM attacks are chained. I've noticed that quite often you don't appear to return to a neutral "guard" stance between attacks; they seem to flow into one another. Anyway, when the animation and rooted times were different, they DID apparently begin recharging before the rooted time was over. But as far as I know, since they've gone live they're currently working like other attacks, and the recharge begins at the completion of the animation.
And here's how I'm computing the Arcanatimes of BB and SB:
BB has a published activation time of 1.07sec. (roundup(1.07/0.132)+1)*0.132=1.32sec
SB has a published activation time of 1.2sec. (roundup(1.2/0.132)+1)*0.132=1.452sec
So BB takes 10 server ticks and SB takes 11.
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Sorry, I was not rounding, my bad.|
Originally Posted by Chaos_String
AFAIK, recharge has always begun at the completion of a power's activation. If at one point this was not the case, it was before I ever began computing attack chains, which was a couple years ago. Not sure what was going on with your Kheldian.
There was a point during beta when the KM attacks had activation times which were very different from their rooted times. I believe what was happening was that the animation team were working on the fluidity of the animations when KM attacks are chained. I've noticed that quite often you don't appear to return to a neutral "guard" stance between attacks; they seem to flow into one another. Anyway, when the animation and rooted times were different, they DID apparently begin recharging before the rooted time was over. But as far as I know, since they've gone live they're currently working like other attacks, and the recharge begins at the completion of the animation. And here's how I'm computing the Arcanatimes of BB and SB: BB has a published activation time of 1.07sec. (roundup(1.07/0.132)+1)*0.132=1.32sec SB has a published activation time of 1.2sec. (roundup(1.2/0.132)+1)*0.132=1.452sec So BB takes 10 server ticks and SB takes 11. |
I'll have to completely rethink my attack chain... damn, I hate it when that happens.
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During downtime of Hasten (I have about 132.5% global recharge in my build) I'm thinking to do SB>BB>QS>SB>BB>QS>CS? The recharge on CS will be down to 157.5% with Hasten down, and 227.5% with it up.
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Originally Posted by Chaos_String
For the chain I posted, the requirements are:
CS: 204% SB: 195% BB: 100% QS: 0% |
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You really don't need that second QS in there, it's a drag on your dps.
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Originally Posted by Reverence
During downtime of Hasten (I have about 132.5% global recharge in my build) I'm thinking to do SB>BB>QS>SB>BB>QS>CS? The recharge on CS will be down to 157.5% with Hasten down, and 227.5% with it up.
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More of a drag then a gap in the chain while hasten is down?
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Originally Posted by Deft_Bow
You really don't need that second QS in there, it's a drag on your dps.
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Depends on how big the gap. If it's substantially shorter than the activation of QS, then it may be better to leave a gap. But remember that in this case, a gap in your chain is a double hit: first, you're not doing any damage, and second, you're not stacking any buffs.|
Originally Posted by Reverence
More of a drag then a gap in the chain while hasten is down?
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But yeah, QS is the lowest DPA, so you don't want to use it any more than you need to.
Why not replace Quick Strike with Dark Blast (if Mids is correct it's DPS is OMGWTF compared to everything else)? Or is this to maximize the -DMG (I think the +DMG works on everything) of Kinetic Melee?
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I was thinking that, too. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Why not replace Quick Strike with Dark Blast (if Mids is correct it's DPS is OMGWTF compared to everything else)? Or is this to maximize the -DMG (I think the +DMG works on everything) of Kinetic Melee?
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However, the OP posed the question without specifying what APP/PPP pool powers he would be taking, so I limited my response to KM attacks only.
Also, I'm concerned that with my KM/Regen/Soul build I'll be interrupting my attack chain fairly often in order to click Shadow Meld, MoG, DP, IH, etc., so I'm reluctant to drop QS from the build entirely at this point. I don't yet have a feel for how well I'll be able to maintain a full stack of buffs under actual combat conditions. I suspect it will be an issue for a /Regen with Shadow Meld on a 25sec timer.
In principle, though, I agree, for raw DPA under ideal conditions, Dark Blast would be better than QS, i.e.:
BB>SB>DB>BB>SB>CS
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That right there is the chain that I had planned for a potential KM toon since beta. It's an awesome chain that has very low recharge requirements and puts out more DPS than anything other than FM and DM
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Originally Posted by Chaos_String
BB>SB>QS>BB>SB>CS (9.6sec)
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How is that low recharge requirements? CS would need to recharge in 6.6 seconds, right? That seems like a lot of recharge would be needed.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
That right there is the chain that I had planned for a potential KM toon since beta. It's an awesome chain that has very low recharge requirements and puts out more DPS than anything other than FM and DM
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Those are pretty modest requirements as things go in this forum. |
Originally Posted by Chaos_String
For the chain I posted, the requirements are:
CS: 204% SB: 195% BB: 100% QS: 0% |
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They are. 95% from enhancements, 70% from Hasten and only 40% from set bonuses. Not much around these parts. |
Originally Posted by Chaos_String
Those are pretty modest requirements as things go in this forum.
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- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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1. The Soul Mastery Dark Blast is not as awesome as Mids' wants you to think it is. The Soul Mastery version is identical to the Darkness Mastery version. The new Mids' database publish messed something up so that it assumes on all of the new PPP powers that the crit is 100% of the time (rather than the 10% is normally assumes).|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Why not replace Quick Strike with Dark Blast (if Mids is correct it's DPS is OMGWTF compared to everything else)? Or is this to maximize the -DMG (I think the +DMG works on everything) of Kinetic Melee?
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2. The Power Siphon does not work for any other powers except for the KM attacks. Power Siphon activates the mode and the KM attacks themselves generate the effect that casts the +dam buff on yourself.
I've been working on a KM scrapper and been thinking ahead about an attack chain for AVs/Pylons. Since Siphon gives you more damage per hit, I was thinking of QS>BB>QS>SB>CS
I don't even know if this will work yet unfortunately.