If Dark Blast were a Primary, how would you make a Dark Secondary
Would rather see Soul Drain instead of Build Up.
But a Dark Blast primary is unlikely to happen any time soon, if ever, due to the fact that Soul Mastery gives you access to 2 of the best powers in the set (Tenebrous Tentacles and Nightfall) Add in the fact that blasters probably aren't going to be getting a self heal (Life Drain), and it looks even more unlikely.
Other than that, your mock up of a Dark Manipulation secondary looks okay with a few things I would change. Tentacles isn't going to happen because of the aforementioned Soul Mastery power. And a long recharge end recovery power as the tier 9? C'mon now, by level 38 you should have any endurance problems taken care of. Actually, I think Oppressive Gloom is in Soul Mastery as well as Dark Consumption. So pretty much, your tier 7-9 aren't going to happen because you could double them up with Soul Mastery.
Okay, I checked, Dark Consumption isn't in Soul Mastery. But still, Dark Consumption at level 38 is kind of a let down, don't you think?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I think Bill Z Bubba has the Dark blast thread in suggestions.
Dark Consumption at lvl 38 would suck for sure, but it would probably be Midnight Grasp that gets the T9 spot, since that's the place it has already.
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I expect that Blasters would get BU for almost the exact same reason that Stalkers got BU rather than Soul Drain: they're not classes that stay in fights particularly long and Soul Drain is a power that's only useful if you use it when surrounded by large numbers of enemies and give them enough time to get a full volley off on you. Even if you stealthed in for it, Soul Drain would end up killing a vast majority of Blasters than it actually helped.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Would rather see Soul Drain instead of Build Up.
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| But a Dark Blast primary is unlikely to happen any time soon |
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| Okay, I checked, Dark Consumption isn't in Soul Mastery. But still, Dark Consumption at level 38 is kind of a let down, don't you think? |
My personal set up for Dark Manip looks like this:
1. New Power - Clone of Ice Manip Chilblain except for neg dmg and 7.5% -tohit for 11.8 secs
2. Shadow Punch - 1.96 nrg/sma base damage scalar, 5.63% -tohit for 9.9 secs
3. Death Shroud - Clone of Fire Manip Blazing Aura except for neg dmg (potential increase to 20' radius as well)
4. Smite - 2.6 nrg/sma base damage scalar, 5.63% -tohit for 14.8 secs
5. Build Up
6. Touch of Fear - Direct clone of Scrapper version
7. Dark Consumption - Clone of Consume except for neg dmg
8. Dark Regeneration - Clone of Scrapper version except for 120 sec recharge
9. Dark Pit (or new name) - 40 sec recharge, 15.9 sec duration mag 2 stun, 10' radius PbAoE
Of course, the design here is meant to dovetail in with my tweaked version of Dark Blast (designed with damage in mind; note the addition of Aim, a viable tier 3 ST blast and Dark Obliteration):
Dark Blast -
1. Dark Blast - 1 sec animation, 1 neg base scalar damage, 5.63% -tohit for 6 secs, 5.2 end, 4 sec recharge
2. Gloom - 1.67 sec animation, 8 * .22 neg base scalar over 3.6 secs, 5.63% -tohit for 10 secs, 8.528 end, 8 sec recharge
3. Moonbeam
4. Aim
5. Dark Obliteration - 1 sec cast, .9 neg base scalar damage, 5.63% -tohit for 10 secs, 80' range, 15' radius, 16 targets max, 15.184 end cost, 16 sec recharge
6. Torrent
7. New Power - 1.848 sec animation, 2.2 base scalar damage, 10 sec recharge, 10.4 end cost
8. Life Drain
9. Black Star
Blasters getting a tier3 blast and Dark Oblit with their Dark Blast would be so unfair.
Makes, you know, sense. I'd still sulk though 
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What are you smoking Umbral?
You know as well as I do (or anyone for that matter) that blasters are NEVER going to be given Life Drain and Dark Regeneration. If the devs were ever going to give blasters a real self heal, they would have before now.
I stand firm in my belief that blasters will never see Life Drain or Dark Regeneration, or any other true self heal (Drain Psyche is NOT a self heal, it will not bring you back from the brink of death if you are taking damage). I will be very, very surprised if I turn out to be wrong in that.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I'm not smoking anything. I doubt the devs would provide a dark attack set without some kind of life drain type attack, and it's not like Life Drain is particularly stunning in that respect. It's a 10% heal on a 15 second recharge and blasters don't have the native mitigation or high enough hit points to make that a particularly impressive value. The same thing applies to Dark Regen: my version quadruples the recharge time. A self-heal on a blaster seems impressive until you realize exactly how little it will actually do.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
What are you smoking Umbral?
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Even so, I'm not entirely married to the Blaster variant of Dark Regen being a self heal: it could just as easily be a +regen power (with -regen debuff; designed along the same lines as Drain Psyche with damage rather than +recov and -recov), though personally I feel that a radial stacking +regen buff is actually stronger than a straight up self heal because it is proactive rather than reactive. With any real personal survivability mechanisms, an in combat heal is going to be a lot less useful the people give it credit for.
I think they'll get a Dark secondary about the time they get a Sonic secondary.
A Dark Blast set might edge out my Fire blasters for a while...
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My wish list:
Dark Blast
Dark Manipulation
1. Dark Blast
2. Gloom
3. Moonbeam
4. Dark Pit
5. Aim
6. Dark Obliteration
7. Torrent
8. Life Drain
9. Blackstar
It doesnt have to be complicated and I will even be happy if they never create new powers and just recycle old one. I just want my dark blaster...lol
1. Tenebrous Tentacle
2. Shadow Punch
3. Touch of Fear
4. Cloak of Darkness
5. Soul Drain
6. Smite
7. Death Shroud
8. Dark Consumption
9. Midnight Grasp
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Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
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Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
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My attempt of a sonic secondary:|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
I think they'll get a Dark secondary about the time they get a Sonic secondary.
A Dark Blast set might edge out my Fire blasters for a while... |
Sonic Manipulation
P.S. had to try...lol
1. Sound Loop – Immobilize a target with sound.
2. Sonic Brawl – Punch is so fast it breaks the sound barrier.
3. Sonic Thrust – Same animation as Sonic Brawl but the motions causes a trust of sound towards the target.
4. Sonic Boom – Clone of Hand Clap, but louder.
5. Build Up
6. Sonic Cage – Single target cage.
7. Sonic Repulsion – The Knockback toggle casted on self.
8. Quasi- Sonic Punch – Kinetic Melee type of animation.
9. Sonic Shockwave - clone of Psi Shockwave, but with sound.
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Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
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I'm looking at the fact that every single other AT that has access to Dark anything has self heals as part of the ATs mitigation. Defenders, scrappers, tanks, brutes, corruptors, masterminds, and stalkers ALL have self heals in other sets available to them, so Life Drain isn't a big deal. Controllers get self heals, but they don't have access to Dark powers. Only Blasters and Dominators (out of the 10 basic ATs) don't get access to any kind of self heal inherent to a powerset. Not surprisingly, neither gets access to a Dark set. Calling that a coincidence strains credulity a bit. |
Originally Posted by Umbral
I doubt the devs would provide a dark attack set without some kind of life drain type attack
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If Life Drain were given to blasters, it would be the ONLY self heal available to a blaster within the primary or secondary set.
Blasters have no native defense or resistance, that is true enough. But the devs are just as aware as any of us what you can do with IOs and pool powers. A softcapped hoverblaster with a self heal as part of it's single target chain, is probably more than they are going to be willing to let us have. And it would be not only possible, but probably the first thing done with the set if it got ported with the self heal intact.
Now, if blasters had had a self heal BEFORE IOs were introduced to the game, it would be a different story. But they didn't, so it's very unlikely that they will get one now that you can make blasters damn near unkillable with IOs. I know my Sonic/Devices is almost impossible to kill under most normal circumstances, and that's just with Aid Self and 30ish% ranged defense. You wouldn't even have to get to the softcap, since Dark Blast debuffs to-hit as it's secondary effect.
So, basically, what your quoted bit at the top of my post and my point in the post add up to is blasters not getting Dark Blast. That is of course assuming we're both correct, which is completely possible in this case.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Life Drain is the reason why I have made a Dark Blast Corruptor and a Dark Blast Defender. I know more people that were drawn to Dark Blast due to that power. I hope the devs realized the uniqueness of that power and I hope it will remain in the set. I could see them lowering the heal and raising the damage. Before Mental Manipulation blasters only got an end buff or end drain, but with Drain Psyche they changed the rules by giving a +regen, +End to self and a -Regen,-End to target. I do think the Life Drain in the set (if ever made) will not make the set overpowered.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I'm looking at the fact that every single other AT that has access to Dark anything has self heals as part of the ATs mitigation. Defenders, scrappers, tanks, brutes, corruptors, masterminds, and stalkers ALL have self heals in other sets available to them, so Life Drain isn't a big deal. Controllers get self heals, but they don't have access to Dark powers. Only Blasters and Dominators (out of the 10 basic ATs) don't get access to any kind of self heal inherent to a powerset. Not surprisingly, neither gets access to a Dark set. Calling that a coincidence strains credulity a bit.
If Life Drain were given to blasters, it would be the ONLY self heal available to a blaster within the primary or secondary set. Blasters have no native defense or resistance, that is true enough. But the devs are just as aware as any of us what you can do with IOs and pool powers. A softcapped hoverblaster with a self heal as part of it's single target chain, is probably more than they are going to be willing to let us have. And it would be not only possible, but probably the first thing done with the set if it got ported with the self heal intact. Now, if blasters had had a self heal BEFORE IOs were introduced to the game, it would be a different story. But they didn't, so it's very unlikely that they will get one now that you can make blasters damn near unkillable with IOs. I know my Sonic/Devices is almost impossible to kill under most normal circumstances, and that's just with Aid Self and 30ish% ranged defense. You wouldn't even have to get to the softcap, since Dark Blast debuffs to-hit as it's secondary effect. So, basically, what your quoted bit at the top of my post and my point in the post add up to is blasters not getting Dark Blast. That is of course assuming we're both correct, which is completely possible in this case. |
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
I'm sorry, I'd want to lose the snipe and take dark oblit but would want tentacles and night fall. They could adjust the recharge/damage on those two. I don't get why no one would want it as is, as it would be unique enough to be of interest.
Course that might just be my greed, wanting tentacles + burn + hotfeet... 
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Just get Soul Mastery from the PPP for Blasters and you will be a happy man. |
Originally Posted by JayboH
I'm sorry, I'd want to lose the snipe and take dark oblit but would want tentacles and night fall. They could adjust the recharge/damage on those two. I don't get why no one would want it as is, as it would be unique enough to be of interest.
Course that might just be my greed, wanting tentacles + burn + hotfeet... |
Soul Mastery
Night Fall
Dark Embrace
Oppressive Gloom
Soul Tentacles
Soul Storm
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
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In a vacuum, no it wouldn't be overpowered. But you can't look at powersets without looking at all the other factors. Pre-IOs even, it wouldn't have been overpowered. |
Originally Posted by Big_Soto
I do think the Life Drain in the set (if ever made) will not make the set overpowered.
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But in the current game, with it being possible to softcap to ranged attacks, and stay out of melee range of everything, while also having enough recharge to cut that self heal down to every 5-7 seconds, it would be overpowered to have an almost completely untouchable character healing itself every few seconds as part of it's attack chain. Dark Melee has a similar power, but as I already noted, it is found exclusively on ATs that have self heals already.
The devs will never take something AWAY from us because IOs made it too strong. If anything they'll adjust the IOs (BotZ, I'm looking at you). But not giving us something in the first place because IOs would make it too strong is completely reasonable.
It's obvious that blasters won't be getting Dark Blast in anything resembling it's current form, due to 2 of the set's defining powers being in Soul Mastery (Night Fall, and Soul Tentacles is a renamed Tenebrous Tentacles)
And since I still believe that the self heal thing is part of why we don't already HAVE Dark Blast, that's 3 powers you need to find replacements for. You can replace Night Fall with Dark Obliteration, but what do you give it in place of Tenebrous Tentacles and Life Drain?
I still like the idea of replacing Life Drain with a ranged Follow Up for a sustainable damage boost, but the loss of the 2 powers that would have been most useful for make that questionable.
Blasters probably will get something like Dark Blast eventually. But since it is going to definitely lose Nightfall and Tenebrous Tentacles, and most likely Life Drain as well, is it really going to be worth playing? I'd say, for me, no. I like Dark Blast on corruptors, because it gets good AoE ability very early (TT and Nightfall both come before level 20), since it's going to lose that, it wouldn't even be the same set for blasters.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Instead of Life Drain, how about Life Leech?
Does moderate Negative Energy damage, and -Regen to the target hit, while boosting the Blaster's Regen rate.
And, instead of TT, another cone that does low Negative Energy damage, but has a higher -to hit component?
Just some quick thoughts...
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
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It would have to be carefully balanced, but there is precedent for it (Drain Psyche) |
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
Instead of Life Drain, how about Life Leech?
Does moderate Negative Energy damage, and -Regen to the target hit, while boosting the Blaster's Regen rate. |
-Regen and a regen boost don't seem like they'd be too out of line. Maybe -20% regen to the target for an equal boost? Make the -regen unenhanceable, while the boost to you CAN be enhanced. I could see that working. It would make Dark Blast/Energy Manipulation the power combo of choice for AV soloing (IF the -regen is affected by Power Boost)
And for the record, I'm not saying blasters shouldn't get a true self heal, I'm simply stating that I don't think they ever will.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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It wouldn't be nearly as overpowered as any melee toon combination where great defense and self heals can be had even without investing heavily in IO-sets (ie. DM/SD). |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
But in the current game, with it being possible to softcap to ranged attacks, and stay out of melee range of everything, while also having enough recharge to cut that self heal down to every 5-7 seconds, it would be overpowered to have an almost completely untouchable character healing itself every few seconds as part of it's attack chain.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It would have to be carefully balanced, but there is precedent for it (Drain Psyche)
-Regen and a regen boost don't seem like they'd be too out of line. Maybe -20% regen to the target for an equal boost? Make the -regen unenhanceable, while the boost to you CAN be enhanced. |
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Yet you're ignoring the fact that the Siphon Life is unique because it's an attack that heals. No other attack set has an attack that heals so you can't simply say that because there aren't any other attacks with heals that it's somehow wrong for a Blaster prolif'd Dark Blast to have one.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Dark Melee has a similar power, but as I already noted, it is found exclusively on ATs that have self heals already.
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Just because it's possible for a Blaster to softcap ranged with an incredibly optimized build (and also one that can barely manage any appreciable level of damage beyond the baseline due to all of the opportunity costs associated with such a build) doesn't mean that the devs should prevent an attack that is a hallmark of the set from being present. Dark's big factor is that it is based around providing utility: a self healing attack provides that utility and Blaster's don't have the ability to leverage that self heal unless they spend ungodly amounts of influence to do it so there's no foundation for excluding it (unless you honestly believe that the devs would cut something from a set because there is a power that can be leveraged for way more increased survivability than intended).
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| But not giving us something in the first place because IOs would make it too strong is completely reasonable. |
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| And since I still believe that the self heal thing is part of why we don't already HAVE Dark Blast, that's 3 powers you need to find replacements for. You can replace Night Fall with Dark Obliteration, but what do you give it in place of Tenebrous Tentacles and Life Drain? |
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| I still like the idea of replacing Life Drain with a ranged Follow Up for a sustainable damage boost, but the loss of the 2 powers that would have been most useful for make that questionable. |
Actually Umbral (not quoting as i'm headed out the door for work in a bit and don't have the time to trim just the one statement)...Warshades have an attack heal (or 2 if you pick black dwarf). The difference with those ones tho are they are melee ranged instead of ranged ranged.
but...that's technically apples and oranges here...so you could pretty much blow this post off. LOL
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
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Saw a comment on making a Dark Blast primary, and thought, it'd be cool to have a dark secondary to match. I figure it'd have a combination of Dark Melee and Dark Miasma for powers.
1. Shadow Sink (Immobilize, because all the secondaries start with one)
2. Shadow Punch
3. Death Shroud
4. Smite
5. Build Up
6. Petrifying Gaze (or maybe Scare)
7. Oppressive Gloom
8. Tenebrous Tentacles
9. Dark Consumption
Or something like that. Not really sure, just kind of threw them together. But it'd be fun to think about a Dark/Dark blaster. I'm just trying to think what a secondary would look like, as speculation.
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