Regen would be a good choice to pair with KM/'s -DMG.
My only question I would have no is. Is the -dmg on KM abilities just going all the time? Or only when you have power siphon active?
all the time, actually, it's a secondary effect like the -res on sonic blast or the -tohit on Dark Melee.
Power Siphon is an extra effect that drains their DMG even more.
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Well, KM doesn't drain their damage even more. It allows you to absorb the damage that you're already pulling out of them with your attacks.
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Originally Posted by beyeajus
Power Siphon is an extra effect that drains their DMG even more.
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that's a better explanation. I haven't used PS too much cause I been rockin' the stalker KM/.
isnt PS kinda.. well poor?
It reads it just "steal" some of their acc, and you have to stack it multiple times before it seems to make sense.. All in all, is KM not just a fancy looking, but poor version of SS? with a single ranged attack instead of rage ??
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Power Siphon is stronger over time than Soul Drain. If you think Soul Drain is weak|
Originally Posted by TheOlle
isnt PS kinda.. well poor?
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Remember when you look at SS and KM (or any two powersets) and compare the two that you shouldn't compare a single power to a single power. Sure, Rage is stronger than Power Siphon, but KM isn't hobbled with completely useless tier 1 and 2 attacks.
KM rocks; no question (Tier 9 is a little long animating, but we'll see how things go). PS, iirc, is on a 2minute rech so with basic IO's and ~110% global recharge (minimum) to have it near perma (lasts ~25 sec?). I went /SR on mine; would have gone shields with AAO's side-effects, but I really dont like doing the one-armed incantations in the air. Kinda looks like Demon Summoning that way...lol.
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Quote:
Did I ever mention Soul Drain? No? .. Okay then? lets begin again...|
Originally Posted by Umbral
Power Siphon is stronger over time than Soul Drain.
Remember when you look at SS and KM (or any two powersets) and compare the two that you shouldn't compare a single power to a single power. Sure, Rage is stronger than Power Siphon, but KM isn't hobbled with completely useless tier 1 and 2 attacks. |
PS on paper, seems like a VERY poor power, thats what Im saying.. and hands down, I am comparing the entire sets with each other, and I see no reason to pick KM over SS as SS still have Rage, and basically the same powers as KM just named differently (To be rough when saying so)
Next time you reply to someone, be sure to read the post
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I thought you didn't drain damage unless power siphon was active. That's|
Originally Posted by Umbral
Well, KM doesn't drain their damage even more. It allows you to absorb the damage that you're already pulling out of them with your attacks.
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what power description and numbers seem to say.
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Quote:
PS = LOTS of DPS.|
Originally Posted by TheOlle
So much hate, so little brainpower xD Did I ever mention Soul Drain? No? .. Okay then? lets begin again...
PS on paper, seems like a VERY poor power, thats what Im saying.. and hands down, I am comparing the entire sets with each other, and I see no reason to pick KM over SS as SS still have Rage, and basically the same powers as KM just named differently (To be rough when saying so) Next time you reply to someone, be sure to read the post, and dont be a dick just to be a dick, it brings bad karma |
You need to look at the set as a whole when comparing them. KM will out DPS, SS. If you're looking for big huge numbers for DPS, then get CS, as it's the big hitter of the set.
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It has no crash like rage does and at level 8 I saw PS spike my damage buff to 156% on a scrapper. So.. does it suck? Not at all.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Uh? Cause like I said in my original post. Scrappers don't get SS!
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Originally Posted by TheOlle
Did I ever mention Soul Drain? No? .. Okay then? lets begin again...
PS on paper, seems like a VERY poor power, thats what Im saying.. and hands down, I am comparing the entire sets with each other, and I see no reason to pick KM over SS as SS still have Rage, and basically the same powers as KM just named differently (To be rough when saying so) Next time you reply to someone, be sure to read the post |
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You're calling Power Siphon poor and not metionining that it increases your damage. You do know it increases your damage right?
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Originally Posted by TheOlle
isnt PS kinda.. well poor?
It reads it just "steal" some of their acc, and you have to stack it multiple times before it seems to make sense.. All in all, is KM not just a fancy looking, but poor version of SS? with a single ranged attack instead of rage ?? |
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Soul Drain was mentioned as in comparison.. which to most is not a weak power.
Power Siphon as a similar effect of increasing your damage (i.e Build-Up), but just dependent on having a targetable mob within range. The -Dmg effects (meaning you decrease the amount of dmg the mobs can do to you) apply to all Kinetic Melee attacks, they just don't give you +dmg like PS.
Power Siphon may seem "weak on paper" but once you get it to stack, it is anything but. How did you come up with you "on paper" numbers anyhow? Combat attributes after a single low level drain? Mids with adjusting the slider? Just curious.
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Quote:
PS on paper is very strong. PS in practice is very very strong. If PS looks weak to you on paper, you haven't written it down correctly.|
Originally Posted by TheOlle
Did I ever mention Soul Drain? No? .. Okay then? lets begin again...
PS on paper, seems like a VERY poor power, thats what Im saying.. and hands down, I am comparing the entire sets with each other, and I see no reason to pick KM over SS as SS still have Rage, and basically the same powers as KM just named differently (To be rough when saying so) Next time you reply to someone, be sure to read the post |
1. Its up 20s with 120s recharge. That's better uptime than build up (10s out of 90s)
2. Being up means your attacks will start stacking damage buffs of 10s duration, which means the actual amount of time you'll be buffed is closer to 30s than 20s (on average, about 25-26s). That's almost the same uptime as Soul Drain (30s out of 120s).
3. It caps for scrappers at 156.25% damage buff with five stacks of the PS buff. That's the highest of all the damage self-buffs (Soul Drain caps at +150%).
4. Unlike its main competition for Scrappers, Soul Drain, it can be saturated regardless of the number of targets you're fighting simultaneously. Soul Drain can only be saturated with 10 targets hit at the moment you use it. On average, unless you are a very efficient herder, Power Siphon will do better than Soul Drain in damage buff over time.
5. Its damage over time benefit is vastly superior to Build Up. Its far higher than Follow Up unless you manage to double stack it permanently, in which case it is *slightly* lower.
6. Its only two real deficits are: its not front loaded like Build Up, and its tohit buff is lower than its peer powers (BU, FU, and SD). And technically, it takes slightly longer to cast.
7. On top of all of this, the Scrapper version will be insta-recharged 20% of the time you use Concentrated Strike, which is basically a total focus clone. That means for Scrappers specifically, its uptime is going to average being even better than the above, and second only to Follow Up which can be made perma (but which is much weaker in damage buff strength).
8. Its main benefit over Rage is that Scrappers can't have Rage. However, Rage grants +80% damage buff to Brutes and Tankers. In testing I was averaging, factoring up and down time, about 58%-66% damage buff under normal playing conditions with builds that had nothing but -1 and even level SOs and no inventions of any kind to help recharge. With no crash. Factoring in the crash, Rage is only slightly better at damage buff than PS (albeit much better at tohit buff).
That's what Power Siphon looks like on paper.
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Quote:
The wording on the description is poor. I thought the same thing after reading the description during beta but testing shows it is on all the time
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Originally Posted by AcceleratorRay
I thought you didn't drain damage unless power siphon was active. That's
what power description and numbers seem to say. |
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Well, back to my original asking. Given what I have said in my OP, would regen be best for me from what opinions you can put together of what I had stated.
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I would say that any of the secondaries that are either fully or at least partially resistance based would be good (so electric, dark, fire, wp and invuln, maybe shields a bit). The -damage in KM's attacks will effectively stack with any resistance you have to further reduce damage you take, just like the -to hit in dark melee stacks with def sets. |
Originally Posted by DreadedByMoon
Well, back to my original asking. Given what I have said in my OP, would regen be best for me from what opinions you can put together of what I had stated.
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Regen will also be good but you won't get quite as much synergy with KM as a set that already has resistance. If you like regen, I would say to go for it, but if you are really looking for synergy go with something that starts you out with good base resistance. If you want a 'regen' based character that will synergize more with KM I would go with willpower - you get decent resists, especially to smashing/lethal that will combine well with the -damage and you get some nice def and regen to back it up.
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Well thanks for that, that was just about one of the answers I was looking for, as my biggest worries are how it plays straight outta the box. With maybe even DO's as a minimum (Damn that grind from 10-20 is the absolute worst no matter what I play it seems.) I know with SO's Willpower is a force to be reckoned with. I also know that until you get quick recovery, running 3 toggles and a 3 attack chain gets very straining on the endurance which was about the only reason why I was seriously considering Regen was for gaining Quick Recovery at that early of a level. (With 3 toggles I meant the Mind over body, Indomitable Will and RttC) But now that I know that the -dam is going on all the time it does seem like a pretty good idea with the type of resists going for it.
Next question is that since I've never IO'd out a Willpower character (Poor 50 tanker, sitting there in SO's still) Do you aim for defense, resists, or a ton of health and regen? (Somehow I swear I've asked these questions before in other posts I have strewn about on the Scrapper forums. I need to start writing down the answers I get so I just have a giant reference book to all of it.)
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Being an altaholic, I'd say just about any of the sets are a good pairing with it, just a amatter or personal preference. I've take a KM/SR (soft-capped defense and perma hasten) and KM/Elec (balanced overall I feel with resist at 50-60% across the border) to 50 on beta and IO'd them. Both held up well under pve. I don't see any reason why WP wouldn't hold up under test as well.
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Originally Posted by DreadedByMoon
Well, back to my original asking. Given what I have said in my OP, would regen be best for me from what opinions you can put together of what I had stated.
|
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Quote:
Not exactly. -tohit linearly stacks with defense because in effect -tohit *is* defense, at least in broad terms: both reduce attacker tohit.|
Originally Posted by EricHough
I would say that any of the secondaries that are either fully or at least partially resistance based would be good (so electric, dark, fire, wp and invuln, maybe shields a bit). The -damage in KM's attacks will effectively stack with any resistance you have to further reduce damage you take, just like the -to hit in dark melee stacks with def sets.
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But -DMG doesn't stack with resistance that way. A -20% damage debuff would reduce incoming damage by 20% for a high resistance, a low resistance, and a zero resistance character. A -20% tohit debuff helps a defense character more than a resistance one, which was one of the reasons why DM/SR was considered a good pairing in the days before it became easy to buy additional defense with things like inventions.
One theory is that the -DMG in KM will help anyone with a burst damage weakness, since -DMG will reduce damage bursts. That means it would be a good pairing for Regen.
Another theory is that KM wants speed to improve the uptime of Power Siphon, which directly translates to more damage. Sets like SR would pair well on that basis if you're going to load up on recharge IOs like LotGs and take quickness.
A third theory says if you have a nifty power like Power Siphon, give it something serious to boost. Thus, KM/Shields and shield charge.
The last theory is that you're a Scrapper, so you just can't lose, so you should pair it with whatever secondary you think is awesome this week. Thus, KM/Willpower, KM/Shields.
Me, I'm going KM/Fire because I want to see Power Siphon and Fiery Embrace.
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Quote:
This is the theory I generally subscribe to as well, however it seems to me that if adding tough to a resistance based set is good, then adding -damage is also good. Not as good as adding -to hit to a def set maybe, but still good. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The last theory is that you're a Scrapper, so you just can't lose, so you should pair it with whatever secondary you think is awesome this week. Thus, KM/Willpower, KM/Shields.
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Quote:
| Me, I'm going KM/Fire because I want to see Power Siphon and Fiery Embrace. |
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
Quote:
The reason why tough is considered usually good to add to resistance sets - in the sense of more good than the obvious good of adding it to anyone - is because if resistance stacking. If you have no resistance and you add 18% resistance on top, you will take 18% less damage (to smash/lethal at least). But if you already have, say, 30% resistance to s/l, adding 18% on top reduces incoming damage by 26% relative to not having it. By the time you get to 50% resistance, you're reducing incoming damage by 36% relative to not having it.|
Originally Posted by EricHough
This is the theory I generally subscribe to as well, however it seems to me that if adding tough to a resistance based set is good, then adding -damage is also good. Not as good as adding -to hit to a def set maybe, but still good.
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-DMG doesn't stack that way with +RES. -ToHit *does* stack that way (more or less) with +DEF.
Adding -DMG to a resistance set is good, but no more good than adding it to a defense set to a first order approximation.
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So, for some reason, I got a serious hard on for Kinetic Melee, to me it looks like a less powerful more graceful version of SS, but scrappers get it. So I'm in love with it just because scrappers have access to it. So far I have 3 scrappers made with it and one more on the way with it. And I really need to narrow down my playing field to focus on just one of em. They are all at about level 14 and for secondaries I have Regen, Willpower, and Fire with thoughts of making shield as well. I think all of them are just incredibly fun to play but honestly. Leveling 4 scrappers all with the same primary can probably get pretty damn ridiculous. So, I'm just throwing this out to everyone as to ask what would, honestly make a more reasonable build. I think out of all of them Fire is the one that I wouldn't be used to the most just because I'm not used to popping a heal or popping an AOE for end gain, with regen following up after that was having the least amount of experience with. Willpower and Shield I have on something at 50 (they are both tankers though so they are abit more buffed up.) Just someone please help me with this dilemma I'm having of all this.