Fly pool has more uses than just thematic purposes. Hover + a blaster, vs a pack of foes who are largely melee=win for blaster. Fly also doesn't gobble END like TP does, and it's a lot easier to get around than with, say SS, where you have to navigate stuff more instead of just pointing your dude in a direction, pressing "R" then letting them go while you get a soda or something. I still like the actual fly power the best for getting around, but I agree that the other powers in the pool need some updating. Speed has the incredibly handy hasten, TP has the equally handy and always practical TP team, and Leaping has the aforementioned combat jumping and whatever that last power is in the set that gives you some other buffs.
One part of me says: Screw balance, make Fly awesome by making it the same speed as superspeed.
I know why they don't but I don't play with numbers, I play characters. And sometimes characters take choices because they look good or fit the character, not because the numbers are the best.
The M.A.D. Files - Me talking about games, films, games, life, games, internet and games
I'm not good at giving advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?
@Lyrik
It wasn't too long ago that Fly powers got a speed buff and an End use reduction.
In I18, the base speed of Fly will be increased again 33%. This brings Fly with one SO Flight Enhancement right close to the fly cap speed. It also is a significant boost to Hover.
Note that this buffage is currently bugged on Beta where it was buffed too much. Unlsotted Fly is 9 mph *over* the speed cap (but the speed cap caps it) and that's not right.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
Quote:
^This. Although may not AS fast as superspeed, but yeah, pretty damn fast. Oh and give superspeed the ability to run up walls (insert standard code rant here). I always feel like I'm just sight-seeing when using Fly.
|
Originally Posted by Lyrik
One part of me says: Screw balance, make Fly awesome by making it the same speed as superspeed.
|
- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own
not so much worried bout the speeds its the fact that the toggles cost twice as much as SS and jump pools. if you are gonna cap our speed at least have the costs keep pace. i could easily live with the speed differential if i wasnt useing so much end in combat (in referance to the blaster comment. )
okay. Design 101.
First of all, bringing up secondary effects in any conversation over pool powers, such as the +defense on combat jumping or hover, is a mugs game. These secondary effects are mere decorations and can change between the different archtypes that leverage the effects.
If you are depending on the +def in Hover or Combat jumping to put you at the defense softcap, you are likely not playing a defense oriented avatar. I also have some bad news for you. The developers have stated that the number of defense buffs added into the IO pool sets was a mistake and that they had not intended for so many different archtypes to be able to reach a consistent defensive soft-cap under solo conditions. It also been intimated that avatars at defensive softcaps will likely not find themselves still soft-capped against Incarnate content under Solo conditions.
* * *
Second: each travel power is weighted against the actual in-game risk of using each power.
Of the travel powers Fly is second in terms of risk after Teleport. Teleport ignores travel suppression and can be used at pretty much any time, hence it's extremely high endurance cost.
Fly enables players to go up and over most Hazards in the game. Outside of the Shadow Shard there are not that many flying enemies hanging around in mid-air waiting for a flyer to come by. Also, as mentioned, Fly can also give players an unfair advantage against certain enemies, keeping the player out of the physical range or reach of the enemy in question.
Superspeed and Superjump are weighted differently since they require that players actually encounter hazards within the game. At some point a Superjumper is going to need to land on the ground, and there are some obstacles a Superjumper can't get over or around. Superspeeders must remain on the ground, and must there-for risk engagement with enemy mobs.
Fly, as a power, is perfectly balanced for what it is, what it enables, and what it does.
Is it annoying that it's the slowest direct travel power? Oh yes.
Could it use a Speedboost? Probably.
Does it need one? No.
Does it's secondary effects need to be adjusted? No.
Second: each travel power is weighted against the actual in-game risk of using each power.
Of the travel powers Fly is second in terms of risk after Teleport. Teleport ignores travel suppression and can be used at pretty much any time, hence it's extremely high endurance cost.
Fly enables players to go up and over most Hazards in the game. Outside of the Shadow Shard there are not that many flying enemies hanging around in mid-air waiting for a flyer to come by. Also, as mentioned, Fly can also give players an unfair advantage against certain enemies, keeping the player out of the physical range or reach of the enemy in question.
Superspeed and Superjump are weighted differently since they require that players actually encounter hazards within the game. At some point a Superjumper is going to need to land on the ground, and there are some obstacles a Superjumper can't get over or around. Superspeeders must remain on the ground, and must there-for risk engagement with enemy mobs.
Fly, as a power, is perfectly balanced for what it is, what it enables, and what it does.
Is it annoying that it's the slowest direct travel power? Oh yes.
Could it use a Speedboost? Probably.
Does it need one? No.
Does it's secondary effects need to be adjusted? No.
I have no problem with flight after the regime of buffs they've fed it over the past few years.
I mean, I wouldn't kick if they gave it SS top speed with zero end, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
Pretty much this. Fly, or more specifically Hover, is the most tactically useful power bar none. None of the other travel powers offer the same level of combat capability (insofar as movement is concerned. Things like Hasten or Flurry are another story entirely). Due to the incredible advantage flight offers, it has to be balanced somehow. Therefore, it's balance is that using Fly is nowhere near efficient, likewise with prolonged use of Hover. Even despite this, Hover can easily make a battle one-sided.|
Originally Posted by Emperor_Justin
Hover + a blaster, vs a pack of foes who are largely melee=win for blaster.
|
I don't complain about Fly's End cost because, frankly, I have no right to complain.
EDIT:
I would, however, like to see a third level of flight added: Supersonic Flight. Something along the lines of Quantum Flight would be perfect. Just a way to zip from A to B at insane speeds. Of course, new powers would have to be added to the other three pools, but I'm too lazy to think of anything right now.
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
Quote:
The end cost of hover is very reasonable since it can keep ranged characters mostly out of danger. If you take stamina you should easily be able to keep up your end as long as you're not running other expensive toggles with it, in which case hover will be the least of your problems. On the other hand, if you're using fly in combat instead of hover, then that could be the source of your troubles, but I doubt that's the case.
|
Originally Posted by Quantum_Particle
not so much worried bout the speeds its the fact that the toggles cost twice as much as SS and jump pools. if you are gonna cap our speed at least have the costs keep pace. i could easily live with the speed differential if i wasnt useing so much end in combat (in referance to the blaster comment. )
|
They speeded only hover not fly. Now you can actually use hover for something good. Originally it was like a bad joke.
But I want to fly fast too. I think something like 1 - 2 mach's would be satisfying 
I want to fly as fast like Superman or Ironman. Faster than jetfighters. Sadly we have limits. Yeah I know... but its pretty dream.
Prunejuice is warriors drink.
Quote:
Actually, most soft-capped defence-powerset-based build depend on Hover or Combat Jumping to get them to the soft-cap. At best (Tanker, Defender, VEAT) the power will give you 3% vs everything with a Def IO in the base slot. |
Originally Posted by je_saist
okay. Design 101.
First of all, bringing up secondary effects in any conversation over pool powers, such as the +defense on combat jumping or hover, is a mugs game. These secondary effects are mere decorations and can change between the different archtypes that leverage the effects. If you are depending on the +def in Hover or Combat jumping to put you at the defense softcap, you are likely not playing a defense oriented avatar. I also have some bad news for you. The developers have stated that the number of defense buffs added into the IO pool sets was a mistake and that they had not intended for so many different archtypes to be able to reach a consistent defensive soft-cap under solo conditions. It also been intimated that avatars at defensive softcaps will likely not find themselves still soft-capped against Incarnate content under Solo conditions. |
That sounds small, but its equivalent to a Steadfast IO or three decent six-slotted sets in a positional build, both of whcih people will pay many millions for.
Soft-capping is all about grabbing lots of little bonuses to get there.
I think the OP is quite justified in pointing out that both powers have the same defence value.
Quote:
Well, that's not true.|
Originally Posted by zachary_EU
They speeded only hover not fly.
|
See my post above.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
Only caps means something. Adjusting bases is same as nothing. My fly speed has been 58,63mph = 94,36km/h for a long long time and that never changed.
edit. Even old VW beetle goes faster.
Prunejuice is warriors drink.
Quote:
Well that's not true.|
Originally Posted by zachary_EU
Only caps means something.
|
See your own post above regarding Hover.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
going over some of the changes coming in I18 i couldn't help but notice that fly pool still hasn't been addressed. both jump pool and super speed have twice the benifits at half the end costs of fly pool. ie hover costs .15 end/sec with 2.5 defense, combat jumping costs only .07 (half) with the same defense but the added benifit of immob resist. makeing fly pool the least attractive travel in the game. only used for thematic purposes. if you really want balance in the game hover should be given the same end cost at the very least , and add immob resist if you are feeling generous.
As you can see i rarely post on forums . this is however a very important issue with me because i love the look and feel of fly but im often forced into other pools to get the benifits i need. any dev response would be welcome