DP is to Blasters as KM is to Tanks?
By
AnElfCalledMack,
Posted on: 2010-08-15 02:02 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Consensus of scrapper gurus: KM has above average DPS and a useful secondary effect.
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Originally Posted by CreamyCookies
I haven't tried KM in beta yet, so I don't really know for sure, but does anyone know if it's like DP? And by that I mean long animations that cause the DPS to drop down drastically. Also, how is the damage on KM? For some reason I have this gut feeling that it's gonna be a lot lower than other powersets. Are the fancy animations really worth the low DPS? Just questions out of curiosity.
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- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
If you play KM, all the DPS on your other characters will drop. True story.
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Thats just for Scrappers and Stalkers. For Brutes and Tanks, it's pretty medicore at best.
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Originally Posted by DSorrow
Consensus of scrapper gurus: KM has above average DPS and a useful secondary effect.
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You know, except for the ridiculously awesome -dam secondary effect that Brutes and Tankers get higher values for.
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Originally Posted by Candlestick
Thats just for Scrappers and Stalkers. For Brutes and Tanks, it's pretty medicore at best.
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If what I saw in the scrapper forums is correct KM's first few attacks are actually faster than Claws' equivalent attacks. However its late attacks and it's showcase attack are a little too long but not unbearable.
I don't see how it's bad for Tanker, yah lower numbers mean less direct buff, but Tanks deal with the lower numbers in every set. Saying a set is bad for a Tanker because a Scrapper gets more damage bonus out of it's ability is silly.
Brute though the inherent damage buffing of KM is less effective due to the design of the class having deliberately low base damage but a built in giant damage buff.
I plan on a KM/EA Brute. If it takes work then good.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I think Scrappers and Stalkers get their damage buff powers (Siphon Power and Build Up) instantly recharged if they crit with their Tier 9 attack. That may make the set stand out much more for them, as compared to Tanks and Brutes.|
Originally Posted by Wiccania
I don't see how it's bad for Tanker, yah lower numbers mean less direct buff, but Tanks deal with the lower numbers in every set. Saying a set is bad for a Tanker because a Scrapper gets more damage bonus out of it's ability is silly.
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I'm planning to try a Tank anyway. There's always the new Bruising effect to try out (unstackable -20% Res debuff on the Tier 1 attack)
If it helps, all the armor sets, do better on tankers and brutes, than Scrappers and Stalkers 
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Quote:
This.
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Originally Posted by DSorrow
Consensus of scrapper gurus: KM has above average DPS and a useful secondary effect.
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For the record: the only overly-long power animation in KM is for Concentrated Strike, the tier 9 attack. And Tankers have the highest damage debuff value out of all the ATs that can use KM. Goes nicely with the 20% resistance debuff from Bruising.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
The attacks sound like a cross between Super Strength and Electric Melee. Is this accurate or do they look totally different? I've yet to actually see them.
I was thinking of a DA/KM Tanker. Walking debuff machine... at least I think it will be. Especially with Bruising. In fact, that'll be tasty on my Fire/Fire, too.
I think I'm going to go with a Kinetic Melee/Fiery Aura/Blaze Mastery Scrapper. I like the idea of using Power Siphon and a series of quick attacks to build up into series of saturated AOE's with burn, fireball, and burst.
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It's also got the best DPA of all of the attacks in the set: even with the "overly long animation", it deals a lot of damage because it has a 20 second base recharge (so it doesn't suffer from the Eagles Claw issue of a long animation and a comparatively short recharge time).
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
For the record: the only overly-long power animation in KM is for Concentrated Strike, the tier 9 attack. And Tankers have the highest damage debuff value out of all the ATs that can use KM. Goes nicely with the 20% resistance debuff from Bruising.
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This is what I came up with after being distracted by "some television program" for the past hour. I'll probably toss it later. Mostly I wanted to get an idea for what the set was capable of. I could probably get more defense if I dropped the Fitness and Blaze Mastery pools in favor of Leadership, and used the Body Mastery's Physical Perfection to fill in for Stamina.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
KM/FA: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Quick Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), HO:Nucle(34)
Level 1: Fire Shield -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(17), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(17)
Level 2: Body Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), HO:Nucle(34)
Level 4: Smashing Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(15), HO:Nucle(15)
Level 6: Healing Flames -- Panac-Heal/Rchg(A), Panac-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(7), Panac-Heal(7), Panac-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Panac-Heal/EndRedux(37)
Level 8: Power Siphon -- AdjTgt-Rchg(A), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(9), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(37)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-ResKB(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43), LkGmblr-Def(43)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Health -- Panac-Heal/+End(A)
Level 16: Plasma Shield -- GA-ResDam(A), GA-End/Res(37), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(39), GA-3defTpProc(40)
Level 18: Burst -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(25), Oblit-Dmg(25), Oblit-%Dam(40)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21), P'Shift-EndMod(21)
Level 22: Consume -- P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(23)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(27), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(27)
Level 28: Burn -- Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(29), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Armgdn-Dam%(36), FotG-ResDeb%(40)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 32: Concentrated Strike -- Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(33), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Hectmb-Dam%(34)
Level 35: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 38: Blazing Aura -- Oblit-Acc/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg(46), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Oblit-%Dam(50)
Level 41: Char -- UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(A), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-Hold(42), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(43)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Apoc-Acc/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(45), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Apoc-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Dam%(50)
Level 49: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 4: Ninja Run
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Collective agreement from the Brute forums is that KM's lengthy (dont quote me on that, never played it myself) animation times aren't good for fury building.|
Originally Posted by Umbral
You know, except for the ridiculously awesome -dam secondary effect that Brutes and Tankers get higher values for.
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And IMO, some/most Tanks dont really care about how hard they're punching, but how hard they're being punched.
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Quote:
Of course, they might be mixing up Kinetic Melee performance** with the Fury changes (which seem to make it harder to get more Fury the more you already have - though it's also a lot slower to drain).|
Originally Posted by Neutrino_Siphon
Collective agreement from the Brute forums is that KM's lengthy (dont quote me on that, never played it myself) animation times aren't good for fury building.
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** (Which, by the numbers and from my own experience in the beta, is pretty much average in terms of animation & activation times. Too lazy to set up the beta again or else I'd pull out the numbers for KM and a couple of other sets for comparison, like one can for Dual Pistols and Sonic Blast, which has similar times on equivalent powers)
from my experience it isn't a bad set for brutes, and actually is pretty solid, with that said there are some sets that will eclipse it in damage if thats all you want.
If you want burst damage this isn't the set for you(although its tier 9 does deliver some nice numbers)
The issues with the animation times is only really true with a couple powers, which aren't bad powers, but rather ones I'd save once you've built up your damage some, but otherwise keep out of your normal damage chain, those being the PBAE and the tier 9
What it does offer is damage mitigation, in terms of -damage and some range
While you don't get the instant recharge option like scrappers and stalkers( one of the reasons why some people dislike this set for brutes and tanks that and b/c unlike Build Up it isn't instant burst damage increase), PS can be used decently with brutes. It helps when starting off with a zero fury bar, to help build up that damage until you can get a decent amount of fury going, and once you get it going, having good damage increases once you do get it going.
Sets I like with KM in order
SD It helps shore up SD's survivability since its usually that one hard foe that your going to be more worried about, and between fury, AAA, and KS you can have some very respectable damage numbers with it
EA Theme wise it works great, EA does allow you to slot more in your melee set, and it does help out EA's survivability
WP WP goes well with everything
Fire I didn't have a chance to try this out, but suspect the new fiery embrace and KS may work well together
SR/Electric Both sets +recharge will help KS being available more, although SR needs the -Damage at high levels than Electric does.
One set I wouldn't recommend would be Stone, with its -Recharge, it makes it difficult to leverage KM's strengths
I haven't tried KM in beta yet, so I don't really know for sure, but does anyone know if it's like DP? And by that I mean long animations that cause the DPS to drop down drastically. Also, how is the damage on KM? For some reason I have this gut feeling that it's gonna be a lot lower than other powersets. Are the fancy animations really worth the low DPS? Just questions out of curiosity.