So is the annoying pet AI bug still in I18?
By
Boerewors,
Posted on: 2010-08-13 09:55 in Masterminds
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I didn't test any MM's, but I never saw any notes about AI changes.
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Originally Posted by Boerewors
For those who have tested I18, is the stupid AI bug still in where pets run into melee at random?
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The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
I don't think it's a bug. It's not random, either.
When all ranged attacks are on cooldown, pets run into melee so they can make more attacks.
I have gotten around this by issuing a "follow" when they make their second ranged attack (for the little guys), then waiting a couple of seconds, then issuing an attack order again.
I just came to these forums looking for a Fix, didnt realize it was even a bug.
Then again I havent loaded up my Bots MM yet to test it out... hopefully they will fix that damn problem soon.
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They fixed the bug a while back. The bug was anything AI controlled (Pets and enemies) would move into melee rage, even to initiate a ranged attack.|
Originally Posted by Eat_Me
I just came to these forums looking for a Fix, didnt realize it was even a bug.
Then again I havent loaded up my Bots MM yet to test it out... hopefully they will fix that damn problem soon. |
They fixed that.
The "running into melee" bit that plagues all ranged Masterminds is a quirk of the AI. A pet that has used all its ranged attacks will be inclined to use its melee attack - even if it doesn't have one. Furthermore, once the pet is in melee range, it doesn't feel a need to move out of melee to use its ranged attacks.
Strangely, this seems to be counteracted by the presence of a fellow pet of that tier in melee range already. At least, that's what I'm usually seeing. There's always that ONE stupid 1st tier that insists on getting into melee range, and about half the time, a dunce of 2nd tier runs in to join him.
Just how I see things. It's how my MMs have always played, so I suspect it's considered WAI.
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
On a related note, I'm curious if the "pets won't move after zoning" bug is fixed in I18?
This is the one where after zoning (usually into an outdoor zone such as an outdoor mission or a different island zone) the pets will just stand at the entrance to the zone and will not move. Even dimissing and switching zones repeatedly while redismissing, or logging out for a short time, may not fix this. You cannot recast them when this bug happens (unless they die). The only real fix is to either log out for a longer period of time or as some say to get your pets killed somehow. (A short thread on this bug is here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=226574)
I have played Zombies (Twice), Thugs, Bots and now Demons into the 40's and 50's and I have never seen pets behavive as the Demons are doing currently.
IE: All Demons throw their ranged attacks then cluster into melee.
Not one, not two but all of them. Low levels it wasn't so noticeable but once I started doing AV fights my pets Demons became absolutely worthless as they would just be summoned only to die.
Bots would stand by me and fire, Zombies I had a hell of a time trying to convince them that Melee was where they really wanted to be and would have to micromanage them with the Move to command.
My Demons are suicidal, one or two ranged attacks and then "LET ME PUNCH YOU ON THE FACE! What do you mean I have no HP?"
Its made this highly enjoyable set almost unplayable at high level.
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
They fixed the bug a while back...
The "running into melee" bit that plagues all ranged Masterminds is a quirk of the AI. A pet that has used all its ranged attacks will be inclined to use its melee attack... Just how I see things. It's how my MMs have always played, so I suspect it's considered WAI. |
This is what I understand also. Pet AI was fixed a few patches ago, it is now working as intended. Also, if I understand correctly, there's "group" code in the AI that controls the entire spawn which causes some mobs to just randomly run into melee range, even if they don't need to. This same code randomly causes your pets to enter melee range, even if they don't need to. This is also considered WAI.
The devs just don't want us to have 100% control of out pets. It's part of the game that we have to work at positioning and commanding our pets to get them to do what we want.
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Originally Posted by Eat_Me
IE: All Demons throw their ranged attacks then cluster into melee...
Its made this highly enjoyable set almost unplayable at high level. |
I totally agree that better control of the pets would be desirable. I wonder if the devs would give this to us as an Incarnate or other special power, something we have to work at to earn. That would make us better MMs and also represent our increasing control over our henchmen in an in-game sort of way.
I think the devs will not, because the AI changes would be too hard, but it might be worth it to ask.
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Actually, the AI has been severely bugged for months. Trust me, I'm a guy that spends a lot of his time telling the pets to attack RWZ dummies. I think they were broken in i17 and never fixed, although Castle falsely claimed to fix it.|
Originally Posted by seebs
I don't think it's a bug. It's not random, either.
When all ranged attacks are on cooldown, pets run into melee so they can make more attacks. I have gotten around this by issuing a "follow" when they make their second ranged attack (for the little guys), then waiting a couple of seconds, then issuing an attack order again. |
Also, nowadays, stupid mercs jump onto the Blue Mitos' platforms and get themselves zapped to death.
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The pet AI fix was a total lie. I cannot stress that enough. They broke the AI to accommodate Demons. Then falsely proclaimed they fixed it. Tell that to my poor soldiers who keep trying to melee Blue Mitos.... or all huddle around an RWZ dummy and punch it these days.
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Originally Posted by gameboy1234
This is what I understand also. Pet AI was fixed a few patches ago, it is now working as intended. Also, if I understand correctly, there's "group" code in the AI that controls the entire spawn which causes some mobs to just randomly run into melee range, even if they don't need to. This same code randomly causes your pets to enter melee range, even if they don't need to. This is also considered WAI.
The devs just don't want us to have 100% control of out pets. It's part of the game that we have to work at positioning and commanding our pets to get them to do what we want. I totally agree that better control of the pets would be desirable. I wonder if the devs would give this to us as an Incarnate or other special power, something we have to work at to earn. That would make us better MMs and also represent our increasing control over our henchmen in an in-game sort of way. I think the devs will not, because the AI changes would be too hard, but it might be worth it to ask. |
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Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
The pet AI fix was a total lie.
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Well I'm not qualified to say one way or the other. The dev's certainly seemed to regard the fix they made as being the correct solution.
If you want to convince them otherwise, I'd suggest avoiding words like "lie." A more positive and pleasant attitude will almost certainly be required to convince Paragon Studios to take a second look at pet AI. Heck, your comment wasn't even aimed at me and yet I'm inclined to dismiss it as excessive nerd rage and sophomoric internet posturing.
For what it's worth, I play Bots, and I haven't noticed any significant change in behavior. There was always some weirdness with the Rikti dummies that caused pets to mob them at melee range. This is not new.
I'm playing a Mercs/pain and my guys run into melee all the time. They'll shoot, run into melee and start fisting. really bad beacuse then they get *****
Pet's running into melee when their ranged attacks are in cool down was a "feature" added for demons. Funny thing is, ALL pets, even pets with no melee attacks enter into melee range when their ranged attacks are on cool down, even phantasims and gun turrets.
I for one think the new "feature" is the stupidest thing ever added into the game. Why the Hell would I ever, ever, EVER want my merc, thug or bot to use BRAWL? F'ING BRAWL! WHY? "OH LOOK OUT! THE ASSBOT is going to BRAWL me to DEATH, with it's 5 points of damage! OH WAIT! I'll just fire off my PBOAE NUKE!!"
It's a waste on an attack and places my henchmen in harms way for no reason other than to buff ninjas, demons and zombies because their lazy *** masterminds can't figure out how to use the f'ing GOTO command.
And, by the way, GOTO is now broken due to the "feature" added in I17, because the pet's AI is HARDWIRED now to enter into melee.
I've pmed Castle several times now, and all I've gotten back at this point is "It's not a BUG, it's a feature, but oh, look, GOTO is broken now! Thanks for telling us!"
I will be happy if they fix the GOTO bug, but I still think it's beyond dumb for my bots to try and brawl people.
The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272
Clowning Around- arc id: 408447
Down the Rabbit Hole- arc id: 193055
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Try soloing Recluse as an AV or run the ITF and tell me you don't notice your ASSBOT trying to give Recluse and Romulus a big HUG so they can BRAWL the avs.|
Originally Posted by gameboy1234
Well I'm not qualified to say one way or the other. The dev's certainly seemed to regard the fix they made as being the correct solution.
If you want to convince them otherwise, I'd suggest avoiding words like "lie." A more positive and pleasant attitude will almost certainly be required to convince Paragon Studios to take a second look at pet AI. Heck, your comment wasn't even aimed at me and yet I'm inclined to dismiss it as excessive nerd rage and sophomoric internet posturing. For what it's worth, I play Bots, and I haven't noticed any significant change in behavior. There was always some weirdness with the Rikti dummies that caused pets to mob them at melee range. This is not new. |
Or maybe you are too dead already to understand why.
The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272
Clowning Around- arc id: 408447
Down the Rabbit Hole- arc id: 193055
Well, I play Bots/FF, which frankly doesn't solo anything past Elite Bosses. And I use Force Bubble which obviates any problems with melee. So if there really have been big changes, that's probably why I haven't noticed.
What's bugged about GoTo? I use it and haven't noticed any problems.
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Funny thing is...|
Originally Posted by JoeKent
Pet's running into melee when their ranged attacks are in cool down was a "feature" added for demons. Funny thing is, ALL pets, even pets with no melee attacks enter into melee range when their ranged attacks are on cool down, even phantasims and gun turrets.
I for one think the new "feature" is the stupidest thing ever added into the game. Why the Hell would I ever, ever, EVER want my merc, thug or bot to use BRAWL? F'ING BRAWL! WHY? "OH LOOK OUT! THE ASSBOT is going to BRAWL me to DEATH, with it's 5 points of damage! OH WAIT! I'll just fire off my PBOAE NUKE!!" It's a waste on an attack and places my henchmen in harms way for no reason other than to buff ninjas, demons and zombies because their lazy *** masterminds can't figure out how to use the f'ing GOTO command. And, by the way, GOTO is now broken due to the "feature" added in I17, because the pet's AI is HARDWIRED now to enter into melee. I've pmed Castle several times now, and all I've gotten back at this point is "It's not a BUG, it's a feature, but oh, look, GOTO is broken now! Thanks for telling us!" I will be happy if they fix the GOTO bug, but I still think it's beyond dumb for my bots to try and brawl people. |
I haven't noticed a thing different on my Bots/Traps Mastermind.
When the bug of EVERYTHING going into melee was there, sure. Now? Same behavior as before - 2 Drones and 1 Prot stay at range. One Drone charges in, maybe followed by the other Prot. And the Assbot fires everything it has, then goes into melee - if something survives.
This is typical behavior. I saw it before the bug. I'm seeing it now.
It was only when everything seemed to forget that ranged attacks had range that this character was unplayable.
Maybe I should pull out a Thugs/ or Merc/ before the Beta shuts down, because I am just not seeing the kind of thing you are complaining about. *EDIT* Huh... seems they took out the auto level... and I don't have one of an appropriate level I can just transfer in. Sorry, can't test this, after all.
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Are you running at +1/6 or trying to solo any AVS with massive pbaoes? What level are you? Unless you are running the way I am you can't tell me you aren't seeing what I am seeing.
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
Funny thing is...
I haven't noticed a thing different on my Bots/Traps Mastermind. When the bug of EVERYTHING going into melee was there, sure. Now? Same behavior as before - 2 Drones and 1 Prot stay at range. One Drone charges in, maybe followed by the other Prot. And the Assbot fires everything it has, then goes into melee - if something survives. This is typical behavior. I saw it before the bug. I'm seeing it now. It was only when everything seemed to forget that ranged attacks had range that this character was unplayable. Maybe I should pull out a Thugs/ or Merc/ before the Beta shuts down, because I am just not seeing the kind of thing you are complaining about. *EDIT* Huh... seems they took out the auto level... and I don't have one of an appropriate level I can just transfer in. Sorry, can't test this, after all. |
The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272
Clowning Around- arc id: 408447
Down the Rabbit Hole- arc id: 193055
had an absolute nightmare today on my bot/dark running /x8 mishes. Even when spamming "goto defensive" macro right next to me, the bots would run back about halfway from their "must use melee" mode, then instantly run back into melee. They totally ignored the commands after about the 6th time - its borderline unplayable with large quantities of mobs.
Imo defensive mode is acting too aggressive/offensive. It should be set so that if a targetted mob runs out of range they immediately get removed from the pets aggro list, and not have the pet run off through swarms of other mobs to kill it. Thats not defense thats leroy lunacy
http://www.scene-and-heard.com/cov/covsig.jpg
I fully agree. The pet AI bug is making my most played AT a nightmare at higher difficulty settings and at higher levels where mobs/bosses and EBs have insane PBAoE powers. Have you tried pulling any of your pets out of a burn patch or caltrop patch? It is as if they are attached to that patch by an invisible rubber band that just snaps back, it makes no sense. The same mechanic persists with mob aggro, my pets that are in melee are almost impossible to get out of it, even placing them in passive - goto very rarely helps to get them out.
Don't even get me started with my thugs/TA and our friend Oil Slick.
I have /bugged this and gotten no reply at all on it. It seems that there is a blind eye been cast here as I have spoken to many people in game as well about this and nothing is being done.
@Boerewors
Add in this new zoning bug and I feel a little cheated as a mostly MM player in I18.
@Boerewors
For those who have tested I18, is the stupid AI bug still in where pets run into melee at random?
@Boerewors