Making my own Card Game
By
Dr_Mechano,
Posted on: 2010-08-12 18:56 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lohenien
Johnny is the creative and inventive player type, Timmy likes to go for the most powerful effects simply because they are big and shiny, Spike is the serious competitive player.
Mark's Article on player types : http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...om/daily/mr11b |
Ah, thanks. Now that I understand you, I think you might be wrong.
Wouldn't Johnny work to be creative within whatever framework is presented?Having read the article, I myself am totally a Johnny (why are they all male names? I know, just musing).
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Quote:
Stronger creatures should not necessarily be harder to get, but they should be harder to PLAY (or have other drawbacks, like a short duration, that balance their strengths).|
Originally Posted by The Lone Hero
It's only natural that I should make the stronger creatures harder to get, if I don't then what's stopping people from packing their decks with nothing but strong creatures since they'll be as easy to get as the weaker ones?
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Cards that LOOK brokenly powerful, but which are actually balanced, drive sales (or so I would think). They shouldn't be so common that they get boring, but prevalent enough that you don't have to buy six boxes to get one; most people won't bother, and just won't play against GM decks if it's that way.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Quote:
You need to tap 10 lands for Giant Monsters.|
Originally Posted by The Lone Hero
My game isn't going to have any I Win card. I hate I Win cards and will be doing my best to not only make sure that each Faction has a unique play style, but also that each card is balanced.
However, let me ask you this: Should I make it so players can get Giant Monsters (The strongest creatures in the game) as easily as they can get Soldiers (The weakest creatures in the game)? It's only natural that I should make the stronger creatures harder to get, if I don't then what's stopping people from packing their decks with nothing but strong creatures since they'll be as easy to get as the weaker ones? |
Anyone running a deck with nothing but Giant Monsters would lose to a deck running nothing but soldiers because there is no way the first player could ever get out enough Giant Monsters to stop the onslaught of weaker enemies.
That's why individual powerful monsters are actually less threatening to a high-level D&D party than a horde of weaker foes. All those extra attacks add up.
[B]The Once and Future Official Minister of Awesome[/B]
[I]And don't you forget it.[/I]
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Quote:
There should never be "Stronger" cards. There should be more complicated, more nuanced cards. Check out ManOf's discussion of how "Giant Monster" would cost more. Is it "stronger"? Not to a deck that values efficiency. Then it's just a clunky waste.|
Originally Posted by The Lone Hero
My game isn't going to have any I Win card. I hate I Win cards and will be doing my best to not only make sure that each Faction has a unique play style, but also that each card is balanced.
However, let me ask you this: Should I make it so players can get Giant Monsters (The strongest creatures in the game) as easily as they can get Soldiers (The weakest creatures in the game)? It's only natural that I should make the stronger creatures harder to get, if I don't then what's stopping people from packing their decks with nothing but strong creatures since they'll be as easy to get as the weaker ones? |
The more thinking a card requires to play properly, the more rare it should be. If any ol' kid can use the card properly (MTG: Lands, Mana), then make it Common. If it requires a smarter lot (Yu-Gi-Oh: Relinquished), it should be more rare.
There should be rares. Giant monsters should be more rare. Design the balance of the game under the assumption that everyone will buy your whole collection, because that is what you want them to do.
Example Giant Monster Card as well as the new UED Template:
Quote:
Now see, this is a good example of a Johnny/Timmy/Spike card, actually, assuming the costly Giant Monsters are considered viable for tournament play (which is pretty much the sole deciding factor for Spike's approval).|
Originally Posted by The Lone Hero
Example Giant Monster Card as well as the new UED Template:
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-It's huge and powerful and allows extra attacks and IS A GIANT ROBOT (Timmy)
-It makes having a lot of soldiers very advantageous, enabling a viable "no Heroes" deck that focuses on zerging with the red shirts until the GMs show up (Johnny).
-It's a powerful card with a potentially-devastating effect (Spike).
[B]The Once and Future Official Minister of Awesome[/B]
[I]And don't you forget it.[/I]
[URL="http://paragonunleashed.proboards.com/index.cgi"][IMG]http://gamefacelive.com/bre/joker.png[/IMG][/URL]
Ah...ok. Makes sense now.
Before I forget.
New Card Templates:
For use by those who may want to make their own cards for the game. Should the card go into the official release, the maker of the card will be credited.
Ultarians:
UED:
Steamlords:
Hellspawn:
Yggdrasil:
Battlefield:
Quote:
Different formats allow different kinds of balance. The only time they have really messed up is when they introduced the mythic rare card type and made them uber chase rares. Prior to that the game was solidly balanced.
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Originally Posted by Manofmanychars
The reason MTG needs to have all those formats is because they murdered and soiled the grave of any appearance of balance that their game would ever have. That is bad.
Rarity should not reflect the power of the cards, but rather the nuance of the card. So, the straigtforward but boring cards are more common, while the really tricky but entertaining cards are hard to find. A deck made up entirely of the straighforward cards should, if played properly, be able to beat one made entirely of the tricky ones. But players would want the tricky cards because it allows them, rather than having totally broken individual cards, to combine several cards into a totally broken combo. And the system should have the versatility that there are a large number of said combos, to prevent the game from devolving into three of four "pro" decks. Also: Johnny, Timmy, and Spike are WoTC's terms for the main player demographics of MTG, applicable to any card game, really. |
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
Quote:
Until you played Unlimited format. Then the Power 9 and its ilk dominated. This is fact. Look at tournament records for any format in which those cards were allowed. Balance means that there are no individual cards that are so powerful that not having them in your deck precludes any chance of victory in torunaments.
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Originally Posted by Lohenien
Different formats allow different kinds of balance. The only time they have really messed up is when they introduced the mythic rare card type and made them uber chase rares. Prior to that the game was solidly balanced.
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[B]The Once and Future Official Minister of Awesome[/B]
[I]And don't you forget it.[/I]
[URL="http://paragonunleashed.proboards.com/index.cgi"][IMG]http://gamefacelive.com/bre/joker.png[/IMG][/URL]
I don't want my card game to become one of those ones that have a forbidden or ban list and have to have a series of different kinds of tournament play besides to:
Individual Tournaments
Team Tournaments
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I'm going to guess that you are not the spike type of player that is willing to go the mile needed to be competitive ?|
Originally Posted by Manofmanychars
Until you played Unlimited format. Then the Power 9 and its ilk dominated. This is fact. Look at tournament records for any format in which those cards were allowed. Balance means that there are no individual cards that are so powerful that not having them in your deck precludes any chance of victory in torunaments.
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The vintage format in MTG is the format I play the most - because as you play the game, sets rotate out and you have piles of cards that aren't in the most often used formats. Thus vintage makes sense given an older card pool to work with.
The thing with vintage is - most tournaments are not sanctioned by the DCI because of the power 9 being a huge barrier to entry. This is where the proxy environment comes in. Anyone can have access to those cards by using proxies ( which are often limited to 5-10 in a deck). Additionally, the power 9 are not mandatory as you suggest, and they do get beat by cheaper cards and strategies.
I myself do not own any single card over 80$ in value, but my collection is roughly worth 5k spent over the last 12 years or so. I'm willing to go to most lengths to be competitive because I like to compete at the game. If you want to move up to a challenge you must be willing to accept the requirements, illusory or real, whatever they may be. Going pro is too financially restrictive for me currently, and typically requires more focused decks than a romp at the local store. I'm not going to complain about such things. I might prefer a yellow sky - but it is inevitably blue.
The strength of the power 9 is a great example of what not to do. When Garfield originally created the game - he never envisioned how people would actually play the game, just how he thought they would.
In an MMO - such power level issues can be addressed with patches, but in a card game this is not so. Thus it is highly important to do lots of playtesting with lots of different minded people to try and identify weaknesses and flaws in design prior to releases.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
Quote:
Not when it forces me to use a specific thing in order to have any chance at success. That's why many MMOs (in general, I'm not calling out any in particular) are not for me, since they require very specific builds for the Stop Having Fun Guys to ever allow you on their team (or so some friends who play a certain one tell me).|
Originally Posted by Lohenien
I'm going to guess that you are not the spike type of player that is willing to go the mile needed to be competitive ?
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Unlike many CoX players, I also avoid Stamina as a power choice, because it rarely fits my concepts. I manage quite fine without it (I usually take it on Natural-Origin characters because they don't have any other thematic power pools that are all that enticing).
[B]The Once and Future Official Minister of Awesome[/B]
[I]And don't you forget it.[/I]
[URL="http://paragonunleashed.proboards.com/index.cgi"][IMG]http://gamefacelive.com/bre/joker.png[/IMG][/URL]
Quote:
MtG got traps in the Zendikar set |
Originally Posted by Manofmanychars
Taken from Yu-Gi-Oh:
-Levels 1-4 are free, 5+ costs something -Trap cards -The play phases (minus the Standby phase) |
(Archive Trap is really really mean... 3UU, target player mills 13 cards. And if you play it the same turn as they search their library, you can play it for 0 instead of 3UU. 4xArchive Trap = 52 cards, standard deck is 60 cards, opening hand is 7 unless you mulligan.)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lohenien
"Don't make "How attainable a card is" factor into any facet of card design under any circumstances. Ever. If you do, you're fundamentally designing a game wrong."
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Quote:
I'm pretty sure I've already established that MtG is about as balanced as Tommy Gavin after a bottle of GHB-laced whiskey and an all-night bender.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
There is an explicitly stated design rule from Wizards about the MtG Quest enchantments (also Zendikar): commons and uncommon Quest cards are sacrificed for their effect to activate. Rare Quest cards stick around and keep working.
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[B]The Once and Future Official Minister of Awesome[/B]
[I]And don't you forget it.[/I]
[URL="http://paragonunleashed.proboards.com/index.cgi"][IMG]http://gamefacelive.com/bre/joker.png[/IMG][/URL]
Have you considered going the other card game route?
Me and my mates regularly play:
Lunch Money.
Gloom.
Chrononauts.
Setting up something like MtG/Pokemon/Yugioh can be damned expensive, most of the more independant card game makers prefer the 'buy it and play' style of card game.
While the MtG model can net you a lot of money if it takes off it is a higher risk strategy. Instead you could sell complete decks of each race. This allows people to pick something they like and play against friends while keeping costs down since you don't need to produce lots and lots of boosters.
Just thought I'd bring it up as an idea.
I don't plan on going into production. I plan on making a forum where people can play their games and get boosters and stuff. I've already found a program that can be used to make browser based online Card Games and such, which costs nothing btw. So I already have everything planned out. If it does well, then maybe I might take it to Wizards or Upperdeck and see if they'd be willing to produce it into an actual card game or maybe even start my own thing myself. First and foremost though, it'll start out as a browser based game.
My game isn't going to have any I Win card. I hate I Win cards and will be doing my best to not only make sure that each Faction has a unique play style, but also that each card is balanced.
However, let me ask you this:
Should I make it so players can get Giant Monsters (The strongest creatures in the game) as easily as they can get Soldiers (The weakest creatures in the game)? It's only natural that I should make the stronger creatures harder to get, if I don't then what's stopping people from packing their decks with nothing but strong creatures since they'll be as easy to get as the weaker ones?