Did I say something wrong? I can't believe nobody has any opinions 
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oh, I've got opinions. Just do a quick search for Nvidia against my user-name.|
Originally Posted by ioshie
Did I say something wrong? I can't believe nobody has any opinions
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The GTX 460 is the first Nvidia card since the RadeonHD 4850 launched that is probably "worth" the cash to look-at. It's performance-per-watt isn't far off that of the RadeonHD's, it's not drastically more expensive than the RadeonHD's, and most GTX 460's overclock. Most 5830's... don't.
That being said, I'm a little concerned looking at that site. A Geforce GTX 460 with 1gb memory starts around $230 retail. A 1gb RadeonHD 5830 is significantly cheaper. On the site you list, they are selling the 1gb GTX 460 and the HD 5830 for the same price...
In addition, that site has a $91 split between the GTX 460 and the RadeonHD 5850. The street price of a 5850 is $290. That's only a $60 split between the 1gb 460 and the 5850.
So that site you link to is either overcharging you for the hardware in general, or they are taking a drastic hit on Nvidia cards to move inventory.
To purchasing the cards from retail, the 5850 is worth the $60 over the 1gb GTX 460.
As to the Motherboard... if you are going to be buying an Intel system, go ahead and spend out for a motherboard that will do both Crossfire and SLI.
If you do that you'll be set for multi-gpu regardless of who you get your multi-gpu from.
I'm replying to make you feel welcomed. The system your spec'ing should have no problems with CoH/GR. The video card is plenty fast enough. Are you getting a 4 or 8 cores system? Here's a link with some good information on what to expect with Ultra mode:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=217610
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... 8 cores?|
Originally Posted by Residentx10
I'm replying to make you feel welcomed. The system your spec'ing should have no problems with CoH/GR. The video card is plenty fast enough. Are you getting a 4 or 8 cores system? Here's a link with some good information on what to expect with Ultra mode:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=217610 |
Neither Intel nor AMD have any 8 core processors on the market. AMD does have some 6 core processors on the market.
If you were referring to the I7, those aren't cores. Intel's I7 is a quad-core processor that leverages Symmetric Multi-Threading (S.M.T.) to expose code-execution units that are not in use as separate logical processors. These exposed logical processors are not capable of general processing, and can largely only be leveraged for additional power when performing tasks that require different types of computations.
Most consumer oriented workloads barely leverage Symmetric Multi-Processing (S.M.P.) to begin with, much less containing the extra code to dictate multi-threaded processing loads.
Okay, you asked for it.
Well, there is the SSD RAID 1 setup. In my opinion SSDs are still immature and ridiculously expensive, doubly so by configuring them as a RAID 1 (over $6 per GB). Sure, shouldn't have a problem with the OS drive failing ever but I don't know how much of a boost you'll get from just the OS and one or two selected apps running on it. Also the Kingston V-series has terrible write times. I also think RAID of any kind breaks TRIM support which means the drive's read performance will get worse over time. But it's just a lot of money, no real technical gotchas.
The motherboard only has one remotely real video card slot, the 2nd one they talk about for Crossfire setups is only equivalent to a x2 slot in bandwidth so a 2nd ATI card (I know you have a GTX 460) in Crossfire wouldn't help much. Also the x16 slot will switch to x8 if you enable either USB 3.0 or SATA-III (6Gb/s) ports.
Now if you want a motherboard that supports nVidia SLi (x8/x8) as well as Crossfire and can still have SATA-III and USB 3.0 at the same time, then out of their selection I would go with the Asus P7P55D-E Pro. The Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4P will force the SATA-III and USB 3.0 ports back to SATA-II and USB 2.0 when you have two video cards.
No real problem with the CPU. It's a tad overkill but it will let you use the DDR3-1600 ram without needing to overclock the CPU base clock like on the i5-760.
Currently without the ability for multiple GPUs, unless you get some single card with multiple GPUs, the 800 watt PSU is a bit of overkill. But then again after overlooking the specs (with only 600 watts at 12 volts) it's more like a good quality 650-700 watt, which is still overkill. But oddly (not really) a more appropriate sized PSU, at least the ones I would consider from their selection, are more expensive.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Thank you very much for your replies. I'm rethinking the raid setup, but I'm sold on at least one SSD for the OS and CoX if nothing else. I tried out a friend of mine's and it was a beautiful thing.
I'm also leaning towards the HD 5850 after reading some more of your stuff Je, thank you. I have no particular allegiance to nVidia, I had just heard that the 460 was a good buy. It doesn't sit well with me that that seems to be the only card of their's that people like right now though.
So Father X, you think the i7 is overkill? Can you explain? But I'm not that knowledgeable (obviously) so please use small words hehe.
5850
A single SSD for the OS if you can swing it is nice.
Get a mobo with both Crossfire/SLI so your set either way.
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The site is a system integrator (Dell, Compaq, IBM), not a parts outlet (Newegg, TigerDirect, etc). There's almost always a markup assumed with parts to cover the costs of assembly and a small modicum of testing before the system goes out.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
So that site you link to is either overcharging you for the hardware in general, or they are taking a drastic hit on Nvidia cards to move inventory.
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As to the Motherboard... if you are going to be buying an Intel system, go ahead and spend out for a motherboard that will do both Crossfire and SLI. If you do that you'll be set for multi-gpu regardless of who you get your multi-gpu from. |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
I'm of the camp where you buy the most expensive single GPU video card your budget can handle than either spend a similar amount of money on two video cards and possibly larger PSU and more case fans. At the very least the performance will be consistent across all games than hit or miss with a dual GPU set up.
Also one point that Hyperstrike didn't bring up is the market life span of a mid to high end video card is around 18 months and sometimes much less. If you went the buy one now, buy one later plan, think about getting that 2nd video card within 6 to 9 months of the card's introduction.
Cheap low end cards are around forever, I just saw an ATI 9250 in Staples this week, they had more than one and the boxes look brand new. Scary.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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Always dependent on how close you are to a product refresh. If *insert company here* is a month or two out from releasing a new generation, shave a few months off that.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Also one point that Hyperstrike didn't bring up is the market life span of a mid to high end video card is around 18 months and sometimes much less. If you went the buy one now, buy one later plan, think about getting that 2nd video card within 6 to 9 months of the card's introduction.
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| Cheap low end cards are around forever, I just saw an ATI 9250 in Staples this week, they had more than one and the boxes look brand new. Scary. |
S'trewth!
Christ, up until about a year or so ago, it was still possible to find Rage Pro cards!
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Okay, after taking all of these things into consideration, and reading a LOT of this thread I've decided to try again.
Here is the system I'm considering now:
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/saved/1CKX73
my question now is, am I making a mistake getting the 5770 instead of the 5850?
I know Positron said that the 5770 is working well, but... I don't know, is it going to last me? I mean, the 5770 isn't a "low end" card is it?
Keep in mind I play very few games on my pc. I miiiight try SW:TOR, but I'm mostly buying the GPU for CoX (and Going Rouge of course).
The single Intel SSD does save you a bit of money and the Intel X25-V does have faster writes than the Kingston.
No idea why you downgraded the RAM from DDR3-1600 to DDR3-1333. It's not the default speed of the memory controller in the i7-870 but the 1600MHz setting is unlocked.
That motherboard leaves all your options open for future upgrades whether it's dual video cards (of either major brand), a fast USB 3.0 external drive or a SATA III SSD.
The HD 5770 is a tad weaker than the old GTX 260/216, I wouldn't classify that as low end.
But either of the GTX 460 cards is faster than an HD 5770 (and the GTX 275) and their performance improvement (at least in other games) generally exceed the relative increase in price from the HD 5770 (% increase in performance > % increase in cost). Also the price delta between the these cards at CyberPower are at least on par with those at NewEgg (meaning CyberPower isn't stealing you blind).
Can't vouch for the GTX 460 in our game, the card came out only a couple of weeks ago while je_saist actually runs an HD 5770 in one of his/her rigs since I17. Also the most recent ATI driver seems to fix the remaining problem with AA and the Ultra Mode AO option with the HD 5xxx series.
And I just noticed no OS installed. Got a student or corporate discount somewhere?
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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Okay, what might help is an actual budget. How much are you trying to spend? How much CAN you spend if a little extra will get you a system that's a major step up in performance?|
Originally Posted by ioshie
Okay, after taking all of these things into consideration, and reading a LOT of this thread I've decided to try again.
Here is the system I'm considering now: http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/saved/1CKX73 my question now is, am I making a mistake getting the 5770 instead of the 5850? I know Positron said that the 5770 is working well, but... I don't know, is it going to last me? I mean, the 5770 isn't a "low end" card is it? Keep in mind I play very few games on my pc. I miiiight try SW:TOR, but I'm mostly buying the GPU for CoX (and Going Rouge of course). |
And honestly, were I you I'd go back to the GTX 460 over the 5770. The 5850 might perform better, but I don't think you can justify the price jump. It's not that the 5770 is a bad card or anything. It's just that the 460 is hands-down better.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Um, that was just a mistake on my part. So are you recommending that I switch it back to the DDR3-1600? I do appologize, but what do you mean by the ""1600MHx setting is unlocked"?|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
...No idea why you downgraded the RAM from DDR3-1600 to DDR3-1333. It's not the default speed of the memory controller in the i7-870 but the 1600MHz setting is unlocked...
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
But either of the GTX 460 cards is faster than an HD 5770 (and the GTX 275) and their performance improvement (at least in other games) generally exceed the relative increase in price from the HD 5770 (% increase in performance > % increase in cost). Also the price delta between the these cards at CyberPower are at least on par with those at NewEgg (meaning CyberPower isn't stealing you blind).
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
And I just noticed no OS installed. Got a student or corporate discount somewhere?
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Okay, what might help is an actual budget. How much are you trying to spend? How much CAN you spend if a little extra will get you a system that's a major step up in performance?
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I would really like to spend under $1200, but I'm a little flexible of course. I definitely can't (or don't want to) go over $1400.
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Tangential data here... AMD actually has somebody on staff whose job is to make sure the X.org ATi driver works with Rage 128 cards on newer Linux kernels. The Rage chipset is still used in some "modern" server motherboards.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Christ, up until about a year or so ago, it was still possible to find Rage Pro cards!
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| Um, that was just a mistake on my part. So are you recommending that I switch it back to the DDR3-1600? I do appologize, but what do you mean by the ""1600MHx setting is unlocked"? |
The disadvantage is that if a new type of memory or memory speed comes along you need an entirely new processor to take advantage of that memory. Case in point: The I7-870 that defaulted on your second cyber-power link only supports DDR3-1066/1333: http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=41315
However, because you are changing memory speed, and not memory type, you can overclock the processor's memory controller to the higher rated speed. Now, I haven't actually had any of the I7-8xx series in here, so I don't know if what Father Xmas says is true. I don't know if an I7-870 will do DDR 1600 by default.
I would suspect that if DDR 1600 is exposed as a memory option, it's the motherboard applying a behind-the-scenes overclock to the processor.
When it comes to the video card i would recommend the gtx 460 1gb, over all its a good card and the ATI 5850 doesn't out perform it by that much and in some games the 460 out performs it. http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...=558&Itemid=72 you can take a look at the benchmarking for yourself.You can also see the comparison between it and the 5770.
"while some people would say fish, cow, ambush!"-Ice9
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Fixed that for you: the GTX 460 competes against the 5830. It does not compete against the 5850: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/...tx_460_review/
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Originally Posted by Elric
When it comes to the video card i would recommend the gtx 460 1gb, over all its a good card and the ATI 5830 doesn't out perform it by that much and in some games the 460 out performs it. http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...=558&Itemid=72 you can take a look at the benchmarking for yourself.You can also see the comparison between it and the 5770.
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No i meant the 5850...I can tell you didn't look at those benchmarks.
"while some people would say fish, cow, ambush!"-Ice9
Hello.
I'm in the market to buy a new compie.
This is what I'm seriously considering:
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/saved/1CKUEX
I've heard that the GTX 460 is a good bang-for-your-buck card.
Would I be better off picking up the Radeon HD 5850 and not worrying about raiding my solid states right now (in other words, just getting one)?
Also, I don't want to pay for it right now, but should I go ahead and spend the extra $51 to get a motherboard that will support SLI? I really like the idea of it, especially if it's going to help CoX/GR in the future.
Thanks a lot for any and all help and suggestions (even telling me to start over if necessary).