Empty Clips or Piercing Rounds


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

If you were a Dual Pistols character and had to choose between one of these two powers, which would you take?


@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too

 

Posted

First of all, why are you trying to decide between them? They both are handy to have. Piercing Rounds may be a narrow cone, but you can still leverage it. Plus it's some pretty good damage. And you'll probably want Empty Clips since it's a cone attack.


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Posted

both. that is why i have my dp paired with energy melee. i only needed like 4 powers from energy melee and took everything from dp.


 

Posted

Well, I only have room for six DP powers in my Defender's build. Pistols is mandatory, so I figured Pistols, Dual Wield, Bullet Rain, Swap Ammo, Supression Fire for the hold, and either Empty Clips or Piercing Rounds.


@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too

 

Posted

O.o what primary? Many primaries have one or two powers you can skip. And if it doesn't have toggle powers, you may not actually need stamina. Assuming 2 powers to get a travel power, if you can do without stamina then you can easily take everything from primary and secondary. Similarly your epic pool may have a power or two you don't want.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

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Posted

If I absolutely had to choose: empty clips.


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Posted

If you have to choose then Empty Clips but as others have said it's well worth looking at getting both.

Dual Pistols for Defenders (and Corruptors) is always going to be a tight build. Most blast sets need 4 or 5 powers to give you a decent attack chain and the rest is optional depending on your primary and personal inclinations. Dual Pistols has that but also has two very useful debuffs (Swap Ammo and Piercing Rounds) a hold instead of a stun and a crashless nuke meaning you really want 7-9 powers instead of 4-8 for other sets. So realistically if you're doing Dual Pistols on a defender or corruptor you really want a primary where you can easily skip two or three powers and are probably not going to have room for leadership powers (essentially you're trading leadership buffs for better debuffing through your secondary).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord View Post
Well, I only have room for six DP powers in my Defender's build. Pistols is mandatory, so I figured Pistols, Dual Wield, Bullet Rain, Swap Ammo, Supression Fire for the hold, and either Empty Clips or Piercing Rounds.
Personally, I think I'd skip Dual Wield and take both Empty Clips and Piercing Rounds on a defender, *especially* if I'm taking Supression Fire (since I'm in less of a hurry and can line mobs up a bit better) or have a vet power or two.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by HacknSlash View Post
Personally, I think I'd skip Dual Wield and take both Empty Clips and Piercing Rounds on a defender, *especially* if I'm taking Supression Fire (since I'm in less of a hurry and can line mobs up a bit better) or have a vet power or two.
I contemplated suggesting that but doing that is going to make soloing VERY slow. Given the limitations presented I would skip either Piercing Rounds or Suppression Fire depending on whether I felt a need for more damage or more mitigation to stack onto my primary which would lean towards Piercing Rounds for most primaries except Kinetics and maybe Storm.


 

Posted

Empty Clips is a pretty crappy cone unless you pair it with /Energy (Boost Range does nice things to short-range cones). Boost Range also has the nice side effect of making Piercing Rounds easier to use, so I'd go with PR in a flash.


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Posted

I'd say drop suppression fire (I've had 4 DP characters, none of 'em have ever gotten much out of it) and get both piercing and empty clips. The thing to remember with piercing rounds is that it's only a little bit less damage than executioner's shot (your big ST hitter) and does it at 80' range to potentially multiple people, in addition to adding a tasty -res if you use stock ammo. Empty clips is kind of junky (I much prefer bullet rain) but it's not a bad cone attack, just sort of there.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by macskull View Post
Empty Clips is a pretty crappy cone unless you pair it with /Energy (Boost Range does nice things to short-range cones). Boost Range also has the nice side effect of making Piercing Rounds easier to use, so I'd go with PR in a flash.
*shrug* My only complaint about Empty Clips is the awful animation time. The damage an size are comparable to powers in other sets (primarily Buckshot and Fistful). The animation time is horrible but that's true for quite a few powers in Dual Pistols. If you skip Empty Clips then you only have one true AoE and honestly I'd say EC is a better power than Bullet Rain since it's got a much sorter recharge.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
I contemplated suggesting that but doing that is going to make soloing VERY slow. Given the limitations presented I would skip either Piercing Rounds or Suppression Fire depending on whether I felt a need for more damage or more mitigation to stack onto my primary which would lean towards Piercing Rounds for most primaries except Kinetics and maybe Storm.
Well... I didn't miss Pistols on my DP/dark corr, or my DP/dev blaster, so I figured skipping Dual Wield wouldn't be too crippling on most defenders. OTOH, I do have 2 vet powers (technically 3, but I don't usually take the 3rd).

Of course, you could always take both (Pistols, Dual Wield) & respec later...


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by HacknSlash View Post
Well... I didn't miss Pistols on my DP/dark corr, or my DP/dev blaster, so I figured skipping Dual Wield wouldn't be too crippling on most defenders.
I'm betting you have Executioner's Shot on those builds though. Trying to solo a Defender (or heck any character) with only a single single target attack sounds excruciatingly painful to me. I know on my AR characters I always feel limited by only have two single target attacks (since the setup and cast time on ignite means I only bring it out against bosses).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
I'm betting you have Executioner's Shot on those builds though. Trying to solo a Defender (or heck any character) with only a single single target attack sounds excruciatingly painful to me. I know on my AR characters I always feel limited by only have two single target attacks (since the setup and cast time on ignite means I only bring it out against bosses).
Er.. yes? And piercing (which I count as ST) as well.

Ooh... OP was looking to skip Executioner too?
Eep! Then I think I'd drop Dual Wield and take Executioner and Empty Clips. =-P


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Global: @Kazari

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Posted

9 pool powers being taken then? fitness 3, haste poss 1, travel 1, 4 left hmm, 2 from an epic? 2 leaderships to finish up? My decision on which one to take will probably come from knowing the rest of the build...most likely empty clips.


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Posted

It's a Force Field / Dual Pistols Defender. From FF, I'm looking at Personal Force Field, the two bubbles, Dispersion Bubble, Force Bolt, Repulsion Bomb, and Force Bubble. Swift, Health, Stamina, Hover, Fly, Maneuvers, Tactics, Assault, and Recall Friend from the power pools. Power Build Up and Temp Invulnerability from Force Mastery. Hrm. Well, I suppose I could skip Tactics, and just slot a Kismet proc in Dispersion Bubble or something.


@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too

 

Posted

I'd skip Assault and keep Tactics. I'd also drop Recall Friend.

You can't squeeze in Hail of Bullets? It's like a crashless quasi-nuke.


Teams are the number one killer of soloists.

 

Posted

For soloing, I'd make a second build just for that.

You'll be able to skip a bunch of primary FF stuff on a solo build. Keep PFF, Dispersion Bubble... and take tons of attacks and such.

Swap back to a rounded build that is heavier on the FF set for teaming.


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Posted

If I had to skip one or the other...

Empty Clips.

Piercing Rounds I find great for teaming against AVs. Switch to Lethal rounds, start firing off the -Resistance, to have the rest of the team do more damage.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord View Post
It's a Force Field / Dual Pistols Defender. From FF, I'm looking at Personal Force Field, the two bubbles, Dispersion Bubble, Force Bolt, Repulsion Bomb, and Force Bubble. Swift, Health, Stamina, Hover, Fly, Maneuvers, Tactics, Assault, and Recall Friend from the power pools. Power Build Up and Temp Invulnerability from Force Mastery. Hrm. Well, I suppose I could skip Tactics, and just slot a Kismet proc in Dispersion Bubble or something.
From everything I hear, repulsion bomb is meh. And force bubble is also skippable if a build is tight. PFF in my opinion is somewhat meh. Handy for traveling, but otherwise not too useful. If I need it as an escape power, it's probably too late anyway.

You might not actually need stamina either. I'd give it a try if I was you. I know at level 35 my TA/A defender never missed it. And my FF/DP is doing pretty good without stamina too. If you can get away with no stamina, that does free up 3 power choices.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma View Post
From everything I hear, repulsion bomb is meh.
And when did you last hear anything?
Repulsion Bomb does the same damage as Bullet Rain with 100% Knock Down and a chance to stun. It is an excellent combination of damage and mitigation.

I do agree Force Bubble is skippable in a tight build and PFF is wholly skippable.

Celestial:
I would lean towards skipping PFF and recall friend to take Empty Clips, Piercing Rounds and Hail of Bullets.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogoth View Post
And when did you last hear anything?
Repulsion Bomb does the same damage as Bullet Rain with 100% Knock Down and a chance to stun. It is an excellent combination of damage and mitigation.

I do agree Force Bubble is skippable in a tight build and PFF is wholly skippable.

Celestial:
I would lean towards skipping PFF and recall friend to take Empty Clips, Piercing Rounds and Hail of Bullets.
O.o Man, I've spent too long away from the defender forums. Last I heard it was still a low damage ally targeted aoe knockback.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogoth View Post
I do agree Force Bubble is skippable in a tight build and PFF is wholly skippable.
Only if you team a lot (which, admittedly, you probably should as an FF . Otherwise it is quite useful when you need to take a break during a solo battle to pop some pills, not to mention for traveling. So nice to be able to jump around Founders' or Crey's or PI or the RWZ and not get shot out of the sky.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby View Post
Only if you team a lot (which, admittedly, you probably should as an FF . Otherwise it is quite useful when you need to take a break during a solo battle to pop some pills, not to mention for traveling. So nice to be able to jump around Founders' or Crey's or PI or the RWZ and not get shot out of the sky.
Considering his build is using fly I wouldn't be too concerned about getting shot unless there was a Rikti invasion.