good idea stranger.
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I prefer it not being a toggle. Changing it to a toggle wouldn't cut out much effort for me, and it would add the extra need to toggle the power off after use.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Not a bad idea, Crashed.
My biggest beef with teleport is the immobilise at the exit point. If the immobilise and the hover broke when you tried to move, it would be much smoother.
Also, the hover duration could then be increased a bit to compensate for lag.
Making the power into a toggle would do this really well, since the player can toggle teleport off whenever they want, instead of having to wait for the 2 second immobilise to wear off. The player's then in full control of how long they hover, and how long they're immobilised. Very cool thinking.
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I believe that having to toggle it off would require much less effort than having to click the power (or press a button if you've set up a bind) before every teleport, but I appreciate your input. |
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I prefer it not being a toggle. Changing it to a toggle wouldn't cut out much effort for me, and it would add the extra need to toggle the power off after use.
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Originally Posted by DrMike2000
Not a bad idea, Crashed.
My biggest beef with teleport is the immobilise at the exit point. If the immobilise and the hover broke when you tried to move, it would be much smoother. Also, the hover duration could then be increased a bit to compensate for lag. Making the power into a toggle would do this really well, since the player can toggle teleport off whenever they want, instead of having to wait for the 2 second immobilise to wear off. The player's then in full control of how long they hover, and how long they're immobilised. Very cool thinking. |
Wild Streak - Lv. 50(+3) Beast Mastery/Sonic Resonance Mastermind, Amnesty - Lv. 50 Staff Fighting/Dark Armor Stalker
/SIGNED
Love this Idea. Perfect way to bring it in-line with the other travel powers.
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And forgetting to toggle it off would cause more annoyance in an already moderately annoying power.|
Originally Posted by Crashed
I believe that having to toggle it off would require much less effort than having to click the power (or press a button if you've set up a bind) before every teleport, but I appreciate your input.
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Originally Posted by Biospark
Love this Idea. Perfect way to bring it in-line with the other travel powers.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Hmm, well I didnt think of that. T|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
If that's the goal, they should also make sure the proposed toggle doesn't work with Rooted or Granite. |
To be honest I think Stone Tankers deserve the same repair that Invulnerability received long ago when the "Unyielding" root was removed.
I know at least one person that breathed a huge sigh of relief with that change.
Many (most maybe) Stoners take TP, which is silly since it probably breaks any RP concept. I also ALWAYS take hover on any character that is going to take Teleport as their RP travel power of choice.
Not quite the same thing, but these linked "necessities" should be fixed.
Why can't Stone tankers just have a movement reduction, instead of an "impairment" ?
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Which would make the suggestion of it detoggling entirely with movement even more viable, right? That way all you have to do is click the power once, and you can keep going until you move out of your teleport immobilization.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
And forgetting to toggle it off would cause more annoyance in an already moderately annoying power.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
If that's the goal, they should also make sure the proposed toggle doesn't work with Rooted or Granite.
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Wild Streak - Lv. 50(+3) Beast Mastery/Sonic Resonance Mastermind, Amnesty - Lv. 50 Staff Fighting/Dark Armor Stalker
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Right, except the difference between the two is that Granite is supposed to be balanced by the self suppression and they'd likely be taking a travel power anyways, whereas Teleport is not balanced around also taking Hover, wasting another power pick.|
Originally Posted by Biospark
Many (most maybe) Stoners take TP, which is silly since it probably breaks any RP concept. I also ALWAYS take hover on any character that is going to take Teleport as their RP travel power of choice.
Not quite the same thing, but these linked "necessities" should be fixed. |
A toggle Teleport would effectively be the same as a click Teleport, it'd just be easier and less frustrating to use. That's the whole idea.
Wild Streak - Lv. 50(+3) Beast Mastery/Sonic Resonance Mastermind, Amnesty - Lv. 50 Staff Fighting/Dark Armor Stalker
Actually, I just realized one aspect that this change could have a huge impact on; PvP
Since I dont participate in PVP, its hard for me to speculate, but most likely it would function quite differently in PVP. Or.... you could suddenly see ALOT of squishy ATs sporting a new travel power.
Just guessing though
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Oh trust me, this is a very desirable change to me.|
Originally Posted by Crashed
Right, except the difference between the two is that Granite is supposed to be balanced by the self suppression and they'd likely be taking a travel power anyways, whereas Teleport is not balanced around also taking Hover, wasting another power pick.
A toggle Teleport would effectively be the same as a click Teleport, it'd just be easier and less frustrating to use. That's the whole idea. |
My Illustration was less about the fact that it is a travel power, and more about using a power-pick to compensate for the frustration of another power. That kind of "linking" would happen regardless, I just dont think it should happen with travel "in general".
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IMO, how Teleport worked in Beta on Champions Online was the best possible outcome for teleporting.
You 'phased out' and moved freely very quickly, untargetable. You could elect to drop out of your teleport, or dropped out after a certain time.
Teleport for me, is one of the worst (if not the worst) "ok its time to run away powers, because by its very nature you cant break LOS on most enemies that have you without some lucky positoning in one unbearably long activation time and locked movement time.
I would be willing to sacrifice some of the relative cross zonal safety that TP provides, for better / updated concept of the power.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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That could work rather well. Although it would undoubtedly lead to the power detoggling on its own at times.|
Originally Posted by Crashed
Which would make the suggestion of it detoggling entirely with movement even more viable, right? That way all you have to do is click the power once, and you can keep going until you move out of your teleport immobilization.
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| Ha. So many Granite Tankers and Brutes would raaaage. But it'd still be just teleporting, so I don't see why it shouldn't work with Granite/Rooted. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Hmm, yeah. That's potentially an issue. I'd love to hear from a PvPer about what that would be like in PvP.|
Originally Posted by Biospark
Actually, I just realized one aspect that this change could have a huge impact on; PvP
Since I dont participate in PVP, its hard for me to speculate, but most likely it would function quite differently in PVP. Or.... you could suddenly see ALOT of squishy ATs sporting a new travel power. Just guessing though |
Also, from Paragon Wiki:
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Originally Posted by Paragon Wiki
Some powers, however, do affect this grace period. Firstly, the Tanker and Brute powers Granite Armor and Rooted (from Stone Armor) will cause the player to start falling immediately (presumably because of the heavy nature of the player). Secondly, characters with Fly, either as a travel power, Mayhem Mission reward or temporary power, can also start moving as soon as their screen is refreshed. And finally, characters with Super Jump, again available as Mayhem mission reward or temporary power, can Super Jump from the point teleported to if the leap is performed immediately.
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I don't believe falling counts as movement unless you actually press a movement key, so Teleport should still be usable. The self immob and the self hover should be activated together, but Granite's -fly should break through the hover and not the immob, if that makes sense.
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Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie
IMO, how Teleport worked in Beta on Champions Online was the best possible outcome for teleporting.
You 'phased out' and moved freely very quickly, untargetable. You could elect to drop out of your teleport, or dropped out after a certain time. Teleport for me, is one of the worst (if not the worst) "ok its time to run away powers, because by its very nature you cant break LOS on most enemies that have you without some lucky positoning in one unbearably long activation time and locked movement time. I would be willing to sacrifice some of the relative cross zonal safety that TP provides, for better / updated concept of the power. |
Wild Streak - Lv. 50(+3) Beast Mastery/Sonic Resonance Mastermind, Amnesty - Lv. 50 Staff Fighting/Dark Armor Stalker
I personally find the Teleport mechanic in Champions a very good interpretation of what the power should be like. Basically how it works in CO is that it puts the player in a phase shift mode where they interract on a different plane, and can move in any direction as if you had flight. The phase lasts for a duration normally before it has to be re-clicked. You could also simply exit the teleport at anytime before the duration is up.
However I can see this as an issue in PVP on COH. Balance would have to come from Suppression I suppose from being unable to attack for a brief moment perhaps? Or however phase shift would work?
Currently the only time I find myself using teleport is when I'm in a mission and feel like teleporting past enemies to complete faster. Otherwise it's not a very effective travel power.
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This is perhaps the best idea I have seen to alter TP. In my opinion, it is vastly superior to how Champions does it as well. It essential to me that the travel powers "feel" different. SJ requires jumping, SS requires planning so you can get vertical movement, Flight is slow but maneuverable, and TP is choppy but fast (if you know how to use it). I like that diversity, and this idea keeps that AND makes it easier to use.
However, with CO's Teleport it sounds as if you might as well be using Flight (I have not actually used the power in CO).
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You sound like you've never heard of the shift+click bind.|
Originally Posted by Crashed
I believe that having to toggle it off would require much less effort than having to click the power (or press a button if you've set up a bind) before every teleport, but I appreciate your input.
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/bind lshift+lbutton powexecname teleport
Hold the shift down, and wherever you click, you teleport to. It's a button your pinky can hit so it doesn't tie up the rest of your hand.
I use this bind, and I would be encumbered greatly by your proposed system. As it stands, I can TP in the middle of whatever I'm doing. In combat, I TP once, so I'd go from pressing one button to two.
The only suggestion I have ever heard that would improve TP is to "break the immobilize/hover if you try to move."
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No Toggleport, please. I use it mid-combat - setting up a bind (which I did on one of my first characters back in I3) is far, far more useful. Having it as a toggle (which would tend to indicate, to me, "constantly using END." In addition, having it "glued" to my mouse curosr would be an issue - a bit of lag and I'm suddenly not teleporting then snagging a target, but teleporting somewhere I don't want to be.
As far as PVP -
Teleport, right now, is 100% suppressed in PVP. The other powers get slowed down some (flight, SS, SJ.) Teleport? The only thing you could do to it is reduce its range. The problem with that, Castle found out, is that he couldn't just reduce the range of Teleport. When he tried it, he reduced the range of *every* power on the character. If/Until he finds a better solution (he doesn't like suppression killing Teleport either) TP is pretty close to a non-player in PVP.
I was expecting a Champioins style idea, which I would hate.
This actually could work Crash.
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
However, with CO's Teleport it sounds as if you might as well be using Flight (I have not actually used the power in CO).
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As to how the movement is presented...yes. Think of it as a phase shifted flight moving very quickly. So the movement between 2 areas is not instant. And it does take some justification to see this as 'teleport' but its the justification im willing to make for what is, imo functionally, much better than what we have here.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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^ This|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
You sound like you've never heard of the shift+click bind.
/bind lshift+lbutton powexecname teleport Hold the shift down, and wherever you click, you teleport to. It's a button your pinky can hit so it doesn't tie up the rest of your hand. I use this bind, and I would be encumbered greatly by your proposed system. As it stands, I can TP in the middle of whatever I'm doing. In combat, I TP once, so I'd go from pressing one button to two. The only suggestion I have ever heard that would improve TP is to "break the immobilize/hover if you try to move." |
Using this bind TP is a single mouse click without the need to click the power. You're would lock you into TP and stop you from clicking anything else. An issue the other Travel Powers don't have.
ANYTHING is better then what they have now..
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I only wish they changed the animation...or give us some more to choose from. I generally can't stand teleport because of the way it's activated.(yes, I know that it is a stupid complaint and has nothing to do with the topic).
I can live with the end cost and such if I use the bind.
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While I do agree that the shift+click bind makes Teleport much easier to use (as I do use it), the power in its current form remains not very new-user friendly in my opinion.
What I'm trying to suggest is something that takes away the necessity for a bind and lets it function better out of the box. Honestly, even without a complete change to "Toggleport", it could still use having its end cost reduced for the sake of the lower levels where it can have more of an impact. As it stands, assuming one is using TP nonstop, it costs 3.25 end/sec (I believe, this is just off of memory). I also do still think that the immob effect should be breakable by movement, with the duration increased for when it's not broken.
However, I also recognize the problem of the permanent targeting reticle essentially removing your ability to target an enemy with the mouse should it be used in combat. This seems to me to be the biggest issue with the suggestion.
Thanks guys for all the input, these are definitely aspects that I hadn't thought of.
Wild Streak - Lv. 50(+3) Beast Mastery/Sonic Resonance Mastermind, Amnesty - Lv. 50 Staff Fighting/Dark Armor Stalker
Now, I'm aware that technically there's nothing broken about Teleport and it's highly manageable. I do have characters that use it and, while I enjoy it, it is commonly recognized as a "high maintenance" travel power, meaning it's not nearly as easy to use as the toggle-and-move travel powers. In the lower levels when you first get the travel power, the high end cost can have quite an impact on a character due to having to use TP in rapid succession. Several times I've run out of end going from one place to another, dropping me from the sky, sometimes into a group of higher-conning enemies if I'm in another zone for some reason, leaving me defenseless. The end cost becomes much less restricting in the higher levels if you invest slots, but I've found even that to be rather annoying to invest slots in a power that is entirely non-combative, especially when all the other travel power can suffice without any extra slotting.
I've come up with the following suggestions to make TP a more maneuverable, manageable, and even enjoyable power while still trying to keep the core idea in mind for the power.
I suggest changing TP from a click to a toggle, like the other three travel powers. This alone should help the end cost issue by giving it a cost of anywhere between .46 end/sec (Super Speed's end cost) and 1 end/sec (Flight's end cost), probably closer to 1 due to the amount of technical "safety" that my suggestions will provide.
However, I realize that changing TP from a click to a toggle doesn't really make sense. So, here's what I think should happen when you toggle on TP.
When you toggle the power, you instantly start to pseudo-hover, essentially locking you in the air right where you're at, giving the illusion of hovering while not giving you the ability to move in any direction (unless you have hover/flight simultaneously toggled). This is to give teleporting a bit more freedom by giving time to maneuver the camera around to pick where you want to teleport, instead of trying to click somewhere quickly before the temporary hover effect it currently gives the character wears off. The hover effect would last until the power is toggled off.
Once you toggle the power on and you begin to pseudo-hover, the point-and-click target immediately shows up on the mouse and stays there until you toggle Teleport off. The idea here is that you can point, click, and teleport anywhere anytime while Teleport is toggled on, instead of having to click TP and then click a location over and over. This way, once you toggle on the power, you can just click away to wherever you want to go to your heart's content without ever needing to reactivate the Travel power.
So, tell me what you guys think. I personally think TP could use to be changed. It'd make it more popular, too, and it'd still keep it's unique factor. I'd love to hear you guys' feedback!
Wild Streak - Lv. 50(+3) Beast Mastery/Sonic Resonance Mastermind, Amnesty - Lv. 50 Staff Fighting/Dark Armor Stalker