Geez, playing EMP Defender is tiring.
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-07-02 22:38 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Plays, maybe. Builds, no. Archetypes have a primary and a secondary, and unlike WoW, you gain no benefit ignoring most of your abilities to specialize in a few. So that's the one caveat I wish every "healer" would heed: take your secondaries, slot your secondaries, use your secondaries!
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Empathy ... plays almost exactly in game as Priests do in WoW.
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And Defenders literally get a Blaster set for a secondary. Corruptors only do about 15% more damage than Defenders (neglecting Scourge). Now Scourge does make a difference it's estimated to increase their damage by about 20% solo but that value drops off somewhat on teams. In any case though Corruptors DPS isn't significantly higher than Defenders, it is higher but it's still quite a bit lower than Blaster damage.
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Originally Posted by Tramontane
If you want awesome DPS and decent buffs, they have a set for that, it's called Corruptors. Who quite literally get a Blaster set for a primary and a Defender set for a secondary.
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/em shrug|
Originally Posted by Smurphy
My experiences teaming are outrageously, vastly, and so incredibly different from yours that they are simply incomparable. I play Defenders and Corruptors. I shoot bad guys. I spend the vast majority of my time shooting bad guys. My teammates have my buffs. I simply cannot comprehend how your experiences differ so greatly.
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I have no idea either. Perhaps playing those archetypes all the time does get it down to a point where you can get through the buffs more quickly and while paying less attention to the status of your teammates. It could be I simply haven't played that style enough to become efficient at it. Or it could just be that what we consider to be a large portion of time shooting bad guys differs. After all, 90% of this game is personal perception. Otherwise everybody would prefer the exact same powersets and missions. I am definitely not a numbers cruncher so I'll admit my personal perception of how long it takes to fully buff a team could be off.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
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Different primaries, I'd guess. I've got two defenders. On my storm/energy, I'll toss out a few powers at the beginning of the fight, then spend the rest of the fight blasting. On my kinetics/ice, I've got so many fast-recharging buffs and debuffs that I'll usually only bother attacking if one of my AoEs is up (though, given that Ice Storm is up every 20 seconds and Blizzard is up every two minutes, I'm still doing a decent amount of damage).
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Originally Posted by Smurphy
My experiences teaming are outrageously, vastly, and so incredibly different from yours that they are simply incomparable. I play Defenders and Corruptors. I shoot bad guys. I spend the vast majority of my time shooting bad guys. My teammates have my buffs. I simply cannot comprehend how your experiences differ so greatly.
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I agree with the OP, Empathy is a really tiring set to play well.
You have to watch the team window for reactive healing, AND your power bar to make sure you're providing the best support you can due to all the long recharge buffs. All of which have different cycles. Fortitude's up every 30 seconds when slotted, so you never get much of a break from this intense HUD-monitoring.
Contrast with FF or Sonic, which as other s have said can be split between 30 seconds of buffing during which time you ignore the enemy, and 3 1/2 minutes of attacking during which time you ignore the HUD.
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So? My highest level Empathy Defender doesn't even have Heal Other. Healing isn't what makes Empathy a powerful set, and if you just try to use the healing, you're going to tire yourself out playing whack-a-mole instead of playing City of Heroes.|
Originally Posted by SPiNE
I find that most Controllers who pair with /Emp doesn't heal very well.
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Originally Posted by Mandu
all your buffs and debuffs... you keep your eyes on on your teammates.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
You forgot about Healing Arrow!
Because I can't fort the entire team I hold onto one fort for emergencies. Some player, any one of them that I can't fort could be in over their heads. I'd rather find a fort available for them asap than have to stand their and heal them as their bar goes up and down. Doing it this way I do things without losing a buff on anyone else that I am normally buffing, they will be feeling a game play of higher defense and although they should watch their own buffs many don't. People then don't go from 50 mins of higher defense to a what the hell happened there.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I don't think I can agree with that process. Sure, I don't hold the most common usage of Fortitude, but it's both an offensive as well as defensive buff. Holding onto it until someone's in trouble is a waste of half its effect, I think. And since it's +def, waiting until there's trouble to use it is just asking for critters to get a few lucky shots in under the wire, wasting the entire buff and making you use Resurrect.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
I don't think I can agree with that process. Sure, I don't hold the most common usage of Fortitude, but it's both an offensive as well as defensive buff. Holding onto it until someone's in trouble is a waste of half its effect, I think. And since it's +def, waiting until there's trouble to use it is just asking for critters to get a few lucky shots in under the wire, wasting the entire buff and making you use Resurrect.
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I think you went a little too literal. There are many times when "holding" Fortitude is not a waste. Fortitude doesn't just light between mobs. When teams are pushing the envelope of what they can handle (fostered in part by the prensence of a defender), and it lights during mid pull of a room, depending upon who already has fortitude on and the number of mobs, it is better to hold it for a moment to see how the fight develops because there are several factors that go into each fight that a well timed fortitude can negate.
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In Wow Preists that solely healed and didn't use the suite of abilities also were lazy.|
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
Plays, maybe. Builds, no. Archetypes have a primary and a secondary, and unlike WoW, you gain no benefit ignoring most of your abilities to specialize in a few. So that's the one caveat I wish every "healer" would heed: take your secondaries, slot your secondaries, use your secondaries!
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All ATs should take their secondaries, slot them and use them.
I still remember the first respec mission where there was only 4 of us. I needed a long lie down afterwards 
I tend to use fortitude differently depending on the team and the situtation. Here's how I prioritize it.
Melee characters with defense sets
New players or players I notice are having trouble staying alive
Other defenders
Blasters
Controllers
Cool moment and I've only been in this situtation once. I was on a team with a fire/kin troller, a cold/ice defender, and one of my emp/sonics. We turned the fire/kin into an I Win button. Ice shield, glacial shield, frostwork, clear mind, fortitude, and adrenalin boost.
Work in progress no more. I have decided that I'm going to put my worst spelling errors here. Triage Bacon, Had this baster idea, TL
R"I'm going to beat the Jesus out of Satan!" My Wife while playing Dante's Inferno
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I've used all the Primaries and virtually every combo. A Kinetics player uses 7 of every 120 seconds of animation time to Speed Boost everyone. Round that up to 10, or 15 if you prefer. That leaves you 110 or 105 seconds out of every 120 to Fulcrum Shift and unleash fury upon your foes. Perhaps throw a transfusion or transference a few times as well. I don't think anyone who's ever teamed with my Kin could ever say "Yeah, Trafficker doesn't use many attacks" without bursting out laughing. |
Originally Posted by Katie V
Different primaries, I'd guess. I've got two defenders. On my storm/energy, I'll toss out a few powers at the beginning of the fight, then spend the rest of the fight blasting. On my kinetics/ice, I've got so many fast-recharging buffs and debuffs that I'll usually only bother attacking if one of my AoEs is up (though, given that Ice Storm is up every 20 seconds and Blizzard is up every two minutes, I'm still doing a decent amount of damage).
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I've been on Green Machine empathy defenders. Let's say I'm on a Green Machine team...
3 Fortitudes every 90 seconds
1 Adrenalin Boost every 90 Seconds
1 Clear Mind every 90 seconds
Let's say it's my turn to RA, so 2 RAs.
That's 6.84 + 2.27 + 3.2 + 4.2 = 16.5 of every 90 seconds buffing. Round it up to 20.
On my Emp, 70 seconds out of every 90 I'm shooting stuff.
The rest of the team is doing the same thing. Our Empathy Defenders have more Regeneration than a a Regen Scrapper in Instant healing. Our Empathy Defenders have more Defense than a Super Reflexes Scrapper in Elude. We've got more Recovery than a guy with 16 Speed Boosts on him. We each get the same Recharge bonus as someone with a measly, pathetic 2 Speed Boosts... and 70 out of every 90 seconds were flattening foes. People call it a "Rolling Nuke" more than simply because we can use our Tier 9 attacks and recover endurance. People call it a rolling nuke because +4/x8 is too dull and easy and I'm not exaggerating.
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This is very similar to what I will do on teams, although I do not "hold" back when casting Fort per se, When I first join a team, I will Fort the most obvious choice first and let each battle modify who is on the Fortitude rotation. Afterall, putting Fort on the "fully IOed insert-whatever AT here with Soft-capped defense" does very little for them defensively, so I will move the buff onto someone who seems to be getting more "return-fire" during battle or is having a harder time keeping themselves "in the green".|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Because I can't fort the entire team I hold onto one fort for emergencies. Some player, any one of them that I can't fort could be in over their heads. I'd rather find a fort available for them asap than have to stand their and heal them as their bar goes up and down. Doing it this way I do things without losing a buff on anyone else that I am normally buffing, they will be feeling a game play of higher defense and although they should watch their own buffs many don't. People then don't go from 50 mins of higher defense to a what the hell happened there.
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To those that think this is ignoring the "offensive" side of the buff, I would disagree. In every case the buff helps both offense AND defense for the character buffed. What is my job as a defender ? Those same folks that may not have a fully IOed build and are getting "smacked around" probably could use the "offensive" boost as well so they can contribute more to the team.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
There are two teams I've always wanted to be on. An all Kinetics defender/corruptor team mostly because I think permanent capped damage, 7 speed boosts, and 8 manuevers would be crazy fun overkill and an all Arachnos Soldier team with everyone running maneuvers, double assault, and venom grenades. I've done an all plant dominator team and 8xCreepers + 8xSeeds is broken(can also break low end comps).
Work in progress no more. I have decided that I'm going to put my worst spelling errors here. Triage Bacon, Had this baster idea, TL
R"I'm going to beat the Jesus out of Satan!" My Wife while playing Dante's Inferno
Hehehe, I love reputation. So far in this thread mine has been lowered twice. On my first post because "grats you're a lousy defender, learn to play already" and on my post where I said I was a fighter at heart "your probably a fat geek behind a screen if anything" Some people seem to rage at any challenge to their personal belief system.
Incidentally I'm the one in green. The picture comes from a Ren Faire show. It's about ten years old and my hairline has crept a bit higher but other than that I look about the same. So ya, not exactly a fat geek. Care to try again?
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
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While it sounds glorious, you don't account for the time going from group to group. In reality you may lose 2 of every 5 seconds traveling from group to group so out of the 70 seconds you might lose another 14 for instance round that up to 20 as well and out of 90 seconds you may be shooting for 50.
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Originally Posted by Smurphy
I've used all the Primaries and virtually every combo. A Kinetics player uses 7 of every 120 seconds of animation time to Speed Boost everyone. Round that up to 10, or 15 if you prefer. That leaves you 110 or 105 seconds out of every 120 to Fulcrum Shift and unleash fury upon your foes. Perhaps throw a transfusion or transference a few times as well. I don't think anyone who's ever teamed with my Kin could ever say "Yeah, Trafficker doesn't use many attacks" without bursting out laughing.
I've been on Green Machine empathy defenders. Let's say I'm on a Green Machine team... 3 Fortitudes every 90 seconds 1 Adrenalin Boost every 90 Seconds 1 Clear Mind every 90 seconds Let's say it's my turn to RA, so 2 RAs. That's 6.84 + 2.27 + 3.2 + 4.2 = 16.5 of every 90 seconds buffing. Round it up to 20. On my Emp, 70 seconds out of every 90 I'm shooting stuff. The rest of the team is doing the same thing. Our Empathy Defenders have more Regeneration than a a Regen Scrapper in Instant healing. Our Empathy Defenders have more Defense than a Super Reflexes Scrapper in Elude. We've got more Recovery than a guy with 16 Speed Boosts on him. We each get the same Recharge bonus as someone with a measly, pathetic 2 Speed Boosts... and 70 out of every 90 seconds were flattening foes. People call it a "Rolling Nuke" more than simply because we can use our Tier 9 attacks and recover endurance. People call it a rolling nuke because +4/x8 is too dull and easy and I'm not exaggerating. |
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Originally Posted by Mandu
Hehehe, I love reputation. So far in this thread mine has been lowered twice. On my first post because "grats you're a lousy defender, learn to play already" and on my post where I said I was a fighter at heart "your probably a fat geek behind a screen if anything" Some people seem to rage at any challenge to their personal belief system.
Incidentally I'm the one in green. The picture comes from a Ren Faire show. It's about ten years old and my hairline has crept a bit higher but other than that I look about the same. So ya, not exactly a fat geek. Care to try again? |
I got called a lazy defender for holding one fort back. It's for someone that might end up over their head. I don't know if some people will let those that need a heal bot spamming heals for a mo die or what. I don't mind installing less confidence in my empath if it means people play more tactfully. I find the defender area the area of down repping.
"However I'm a fighter at heart" is what you said, and some people stereotype people behind the computer for a joke even.
I uprepped ya.
Despite what people think or say I am still one of the most HUD intensive people I know ingame, if I am playing a Scrapper I might remind people of their work and ask for team buffs (not personal just for others) unlike those that just wade in and leave the rest to history and some emps heal aura.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I find it amusing that of all the crap I've said on these forums, this completely inoffensive, almost literally completely objective remark is the comment that attracts a bunch of neg-rep and abuse.
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Originally Posted by Tramontane
Nobody said you killed things WELL.
If you want awesome DPS and decent buffs, they have a set for that, it's called Corruptors. Who quite literally get a Blaster set for a primary and a Defender set for a secondary. |
Ice/Ice Blaster. Dedication to concept is an ugly thing.
Claws/WP Brute. Sex without the angst.
Every CoX character lies somewhere on this spectrum.
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People are silly thats all.
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Originally Posted by Tramontane
I find it amusing that of all the crap I've said on these forums, this completely inoffensive, almost literally completely objective remark is the comment that attracts a bunch of neg-rep and abuse.
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Enjoy your day please.
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It was also completely incorrect hence my response explaining why it was incorrect.|
Originally Posted by Tramontane
I find it amusing that of all the crap I've said on these forums, this completely inoffensive, almost literally completely objective remark is the comment that attracts a bunch of neg-rep and abuse.
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To reiterate:
Blaster Ranged damage scale: 1.125
Defender Ranged Damage Scale: 0.65
Corruptor Ranged Damage Scale: 0.75
In terms of damage Corruptors are a LOT closer to Defenders than they are Blasters. Yes, they get their blasts earlier which does help a bit when leveling and yes Scourge does provide a damage bonus (estimated at around 20% when solo) but at the end of the day Blasters still have a significant damage advantage over them.
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Never said they didn't. I just said that if you're looking for a more damage-centric Defender, there is literally an inverse Defender in-game. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
It was also completely incorrect hence my response explaining why it was incorrect.
To reiterate: Blaster Ranged damage scale: 1.125 Defender Ranged Damage Scale: 0.65 Corruptor Ranged Damage Scale: 0.75 In terms of damage Corruptors are a LOT closer to Defenders than they are Blasters. Yes, they get their blasts earlier which does help a bit when leveling and yes Scourge does provide a damage bonus (estimated at around 20% when solo) but at the end of the day Blasters still have a significant damage advantage over them. |
And I love whoever just neg-repped me another two-hundred freaking points. For "Derailing" the thread with a single post. Go ahead. Give me red bars alll across the screen. It's fun to watch.
Ice/Ice Blaster. Dedication to concept is an ugly thing.
Claws/WP Brute. Sex without the angst.
Every CoX character lies somewhere on this spectrum.
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*shrug* you said "awesome" DPS and that they get "quite literally get a Blaster set for a primary and a Defender set for a secondary". Now to me "awesome" implies somewhere near the top which corruptors are not. And while their sets are not literally the same as either defenders or blasters since the numbers are different. If you'd said "corruptors get better DPS than defenders with only slightly worse buffs" I'd have been right with you but your post seemed to imply that corruptors combined blaster level damage with defender buffs.|
Originally Posted by Tramontane
Never said they didn't. I just said that if you're looking for a more damage-centric Defender, there is literally an inverse Defender in-game.
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EDIT: And if it's any consolation on the rep side of things someone neg-repped my first response to you because apparently math is "gross"
However I'm a fighter at heart. I prefer scrappers, blasters and brutes. I have played all the other archetypes too but I like dealing damage. When you are on a team as a defender no matter how well you play the character even if you are the best defender player who ever existed and have all your buffs and debuffs slotted to the max your abilities still have the same limited duration. You don't spend a significant portion of a mission being a combatant. Instead you keep your eyes on on your teammates. Hit them with your buffs when they need them. Hit them with a heal when needed. That is what I mean by playing whackamole with your teammates.
If you are on a small team then you have time to throw some shots at the enemy. Realistically though you aren't intended to be a damage dealer so if you are spending a lot of time attacking when on a large team then you aren't doing your best to support the group. It's like being a blaster and focusing on using medicine, leadership, and teleportation pools to try and keep the team alive. So on the rare occasions I play a defender on a team (I probably should have said rarely instead of never) I focus on doing my job with buffs, debuffs, or heals. But I would much rather be standing in the middle of the enemy and sending them to the Zig or the grave.