New Archetype Idea: Weapon Master

Yes I know it's a DnD ripoff. Thats a PRELIMINARY name, and so is this. I have a lot of details, but no specific powersets for them other than a rough outline, and that is FULLY up to the developers. So anyway, here goes!


A Weapon Master is NOT a "Meta-Human". He is a completely average human... But he has a Weapon. That weapon is something he found or was given, oftentimes it's sentient and CHOSE him (or her, sorry girls...). ALL of a Weapon Master's abilities come directly from his weapon, and it is nearly impossible to remove it from his person. They are often weapons of legend (Excalibur is a Weapon like such, and Arthur was, if you interpret most of the legends, a Weapon Master. He was just also a good tactician), and they are never to be underestimated.

The Weapon Master Archetype (available to BOTH Heroes and Villains) has 2 key components, which on the archetype menu would be labeled Primary: Melee and Secondary: Ranged. The first Powerset defines what FORM of weapon the character uses. this defines his melee attacks, and what general form of attack he specializes in. Here is the List that I have made of possibilities:

Sword: Quick, standard attacks, no weaknesses, no strengths either
Hammer: Slow, likes swinging attacks, specializes in knockback
Spear: Slow, likes sweeping moves, has a tendency to knock down enemies, has a signature Charging attack
Scythe: (YES A SCYTHE) Quick, Special (see Below)
Living Sword : Quick (See Below)
Living Flail: Slow with knockback (See Below)

Okay the Scythe has a special effect that can be handled in one of a few different ways. With every consecutive strike, they do more damage. This simulates a spinning scythe picking up speed and the nasty wounds they leave weakening the target to repeated cuts. This COULD (NOTE most likely will be) be handled like Blasters, by adding a damage buff for each attack that wears off after a time. ALSO there are the 2 Other Primaries that act almost like a completely separate Archetype in and of themselves (but really are the same thing). These are the LIVING WEAPON powersets. (See list above) The Living Weapons only have about 3 attacks total among their Powersets... the OTHER Powers are auto-buffs (like the first 3 Fitness powers) that statically increase your abilities. This is because the Living Weapons are like "The Witchblade" if youve heard of it, and they are PART of the user, they are actually WEAKER than full on weapons, but due to the enhancements they apply to their user, they are more than a match for a Meta-Human. Their static boosts range from Movement and Attack Speed (Faster), to Damage (Stronger), to Damage Resistance (Tougher, this ones high level), to Accuracy (Heightened Senses), to Health Regen (Faster Healing, a STAPLE of the Living Weapon Master)... and these effects scale with level to a certain degree. The DOWNSIDE is that while cool, they have the same health as a normal Weapon Master, which is to say next to nil (Blasters are equally resilient... after all these ARE NORMAL HUMANS). So they have to rely on not getting hit and allies to survive, but they are very effective if made properly. if made IMproperly, well.... You get the picture.

BUT the key to this setup is the Secondary Powersets. Here is the list:

Fire: Burns (DoT)
Ice: Slow Movement and has SMALL chance of hold (due to freezing)
Electric: Reduce Endurance (Some special attacks may Drain like other Electrical powersets)
Psionic/Psychic: Reduce Attack Rate
Energy: Damage Reduction (possible Drain effects like Electric)
Negative Energy: Reduce Accuracy (As per Dark Blast sets)

NOW what the heck does that MEAN you ask? Simple... the static Power for the Weapon Master Archetype (like the Fury and Domination effects for Brutes and Dominators, and the Defiance ability for Blasters, and the Scrapper/Stalker Criticals...) is called (you can change this...) Imbued. what it DOES... based on your Secondary powerset and level, it adds a considerable amount of that damage type TO EVERY MELEE POWER ATTACK YOU MAKE (But not more damage than the melee attack itself would do, its ADDED ON damage). AND it adds a chance for the aforementioned special. This is because each weapon is affiliated with an elemental force, and can not only fire ranged blasts (a simple elemental bolt is the FIRST secondary attack), but is Imbued with that element, causing havoc with every swing. a Sword/Fire Weapon Master can literally light his enemies on fire with a simple Slash attack. the only added thing is that you have an additional resistance to your element, though its only noticeable on Living Weapon users.

Now since MOST of these things are essentially already made (Sword and Hammer/MACE), the hardest part would be the Weapon Customization. Much more leeway would be needed, as well as more basic weapon shapes. the Living Weapons, being part of the body, have 2 parts in Weapon, the first is arm, which defines what type of living weapon arm you want, and the second is the weapon itself! NOTE, not all Living Weapons are alive, a High-Tech Electrically Charged Blade for an arm is considered a Living Weapon, as it is a PART of your HUMAN BODY.

Lastly, i want as many comments and suggestions as possible, i want this idea refined. if someone can make an attack powerset for each Weapon (or even ONE) i would be grateful, as its less work for the developers and therefore easier for them to accept. alterations to effects or weapon specialties are good too, and to Secondary Powers, and new weapons are ALWAYS a good thing, but don't suggest other Secondary sets. all current forces are represented except the Physicals (which are part of the Weapon choice aka Primary) and Toxic, which is too powerful to be applied to standard attacks (very very little is truly resistant to Toxic damage. it would be overkill. if the developers want toxic as a generic damage type secondary, the damage ratio will likely drop considerably for it). Thank you, i hope to get many replies SOON.

So, let's get this straight in a blunt manner. Basically, you want a Scrapper/Brute/Tank with lower base HP, zero mitigation, forced into weapons only, something vaguely similar to Dual Pistol's Swap Ammo (except you pick the "ammo type" as your secondary) and a few ranged blasts? Why not just roll a Scrapper/Brute/Tank, ignore your secondary, and pick up all your APP/PPP ranged blasts? You'll get largely the same effect: a toon who face plants faster than a Blaster.

Way, way back in beta, Blasters were Ranged/Melee like the AT you're proposing. They were virtually unplayable because they couldn't survive anything. Hence, they were given Manipulations instead that had mitigation with immobilizes and the like.

I'm not even going to get into other issues with this idea, largely because I don't have time right now. Well, except the engine can't handle weapons like Staves (as much as I wish it could).


Edit: Also, there's already plenty of regular humans in the game spread among various ATs and NPCs. See Manticore, Marshal Brass, all VEATs (or at least Wolf/Bane/Crab), many, many player characters, etc.

In point of fact, its not impossible to play... they require careful handling. like Blasters, they prefer to Kite while soloing, and with teams they wait for the aggro to be taken before they attack. Living Weapons are a lot more like scrappers, in that they have better defenses, and all their Boosters mean they are not easy to take down.... UNLESS they are overwhelmed. (then the damage rate will overload their enhanced regeneration)... Normal weapon users make up for their health with SHEER force of variability... their attacks have numerous different specialties, and can do almost anything (too bad about the Staff... sigh)... Also, i bet the hp would be either same as a Scrapper or between Scrapper and Blaster for stats.... Note i forgot to add that the APPs for these chars would likely include mostly defensive (one should be Shield Manifest (aka form a sheild to act as defensive with the one-handed weapons... and the Living ones...) Point is, this is a ROUGH idea. thats why i put it up, so ppl can point out issues. Thanks for the staff info, but the rest is obvious that values are mutable . (also, secondaries are only gaurenteed Range for first ability. many have more, but their are also control effects, "Alpha Strikes", and other nice things in the secondary... its what gives it its POWERS, whereas the Primary is the form of ATTACK) (Lastly... Dont u want a character that found a burning blade and it CHOSE him as its weilder? u cant do that properly with current archetypes. the only Flaming Sword is a power that doesnt have matching Attacks to go with it (it IS an attack)

If you just want a Broadsword user with a flaming sword, go and beg David for it, the art guru. A fire sword would be nifty, but I already have enough cool swords that I don't have enough costume slots to use (Nictus Sword, Rularuu Sword, Talsorian Katana, etc. etc. etc.) More would just drive me nuts.

Now, if I'm reading you right (which, I'll be honest, is hard because your posts are a bit hard to follow), you're wanting a toon with a melee primary and a secondary with ranged/control/self buff/defense and an APP with defense? I mean, you can't have better defenses "like a Scrapper" without having a Scrapper's secondary. Trust me, they don't survive on slightly more HP than a Blaster alone. I'm sort of confused as to what you want without some examples of powersets. Toss us an example, say Mace/Fire/Cold Weapon Master. Try to use as many existing powers for your sets as you can so it's easy to tell where you're coming from. And do a Living Weapon primary too as an example, since it's supposed to be so different.

Now, the AT itself aside, whose awesomeness or lack thereof I can't really comment on with the sketchy picture I have, there's some other issues that arise, which I'll bring up by playing devil's advocate.

First, Heroes or Villains? What does the other faction get to make up for it?

Second, what in-game lore basing do you base this on to be able to state that all of these Weapon Masters are normal humans. Why can't players come up with their own concepts? The only four ATs that have any lore-based concept forced upon them are Kheldians and VEATs, which are in-turn based on in-game stories and NPC groups (Nictus and Arachnos, respectively). Where do Weapon Masters come from? I can maybe see them being Tsoo or Warriors, but that's the best I can help you out there.

Third, what justifies a weapon-based AT when every regular AT can use a weapon? For reference...

Scrapper: Broadsword, Katana, Claws, Shuriken
Tanker: Axe, Mace, Shuriken
Defender: Bow, Rifle, Pistols
Blaster: Bow, Rifle, Pistols
Controller: Bow
Stalker: Broadsword, Claws, Ninja Blade, Arachnos Mace
Brute: Mace, Claws, Axe, Arachnos Mace
Mastermind: Pistols, Assault Rifle, Energy Rifle, Bow, Whip, Arachnos Mace
Dominator: Arachnos Mace
Corruptor: Pistols, Assault Rifle, Bow, Arachnos Mace
Soldiers: Arachnos Rifles, Arachnos Mace, Crab Backpack
Widows: Claws, Arachnos Mace

Only Kheldians are weaponless, and that's for lore reasons. I also did not include temporary powers, Shields, or elemental weapons (such as Ice Sword). Or Spines, bombs, devices, etc. We have lots of weapon users, so why would we need an (epic) AT that's lore-focused on weapons?

Fourth, and perhaps the most important, the standard code rant. Something like this would be a huge undertaking. What could you say that would convince the devs that the opportunity cost of doing this outweighed the opportunity cost of working on other things?

And fifth, no spears either, same reason as staves. The issues lies in the fact that fighting with either weapons involves changing grip on the weapons. CoH's engine requires that the character keeps a hand at the exact same spot at all times on the weapon. They could try to make animations within these constraints, but let's be honest, it wouldn't look right and we'd all be dissapointed. This could however, in theory, be changed, but it'd be a crapton of work from what I understand. Would it be awesome? If it looks anything like Aion's staff combat, oh heck yes it'd be awesome. Is it worth the time and effort? I'd personally say yes, but the devs seem to disagree, at least as far as we know. But, it's not hopeless, as for a long time we got many indications that said power customization would be a crapton of work and may never happen. Guess what? We got it.

Scythes though, on the other hand, may or may not be possible. I don't know what proper scythe fighting looks like, but there's a couple of in-game animations I can see it using. But, I'm not too concerned about scythes. If I'm using a polearm, gimmie a spear or halberd.

Very well. BUT its not "Never Going To Happen" (as mentioned above, ANYTHING COULD be implemented, but as for now i request this be Locked down by an admin. Leave it for future ideas... AND so noone tries to Duplicate it. (or anything like it)

NEXT PROJECT FOR ME: figure out a WORKING design for a Scythe weapon type (hehe... ill argue for it when i make the thread.

use search first. there have been multiple threads on that subject. look for staff and polearms also.

1. Scrappers and Stalkers really aren't identical. One runs up to enemies and punches everyone in the face until nobody is left standing. The other uses stealth to sneak up and take out a foe in a single shot. Scrappers and Brutes are much closer. Heck, Scrappers and Tankers are much closer too.

2. You may be interested in Claws. It has two decent ranged attacks: Focus and Shockwave. Also, no AT needs another AT around (not even Granites needing Kins). Just ask my Defender about how many kills she can get during a mission all the while protecting a team. It can make some Blasters jealous.

3. Would have explained why earlier, but when I first posted I had work soon.

4. Standard Code Rant is basically the default reply to most suggestions here that would require additional coding, like this one. Coding is hard and takes a long time and a lot of effort.

Also, I'd probably still roll Scrappers for melee if this AT was made. Stalkers, Brutes, and Tanks don't work for me, a squishy Scrapper/Blaster/Whatever natural human thing probably wouldn't interest me either.

5. Enchanted weapons are fine and can be written into your bio easily. Really, if you want a weapon that protects you, make a, say, Magic Broadsword/Invulnerability Scrapper and say the sheathe of your Excalibur clone protects you from damage, because it's magic. You can really shoehorn in whatever background you want for whatever character.

6. Not a reply to one of your points specifically, but you may be interested in a Man-build, as this is the closest to a "normal" human you'll get. Basically, you roll a Controller, level to 6, and only use Pool Powers, like Air Superiority. It should be a fun learning experience (and a fun challenge if you're into masochistic ones like this).

7. Also not a specific reply, but shooting a laser or whatever with my sword would always be nifty. Your best bet is to beg David to add APP customization and add animations for melee APPs that let's you shoot lasers from your sword instead of your eyes and what not.

1 As i Said before, i asked for a lock. ie this thread is to be ignored, and kept as a "backup Idea". still, you bring up many points. also... Im NOT talking about Dual Blades, whose nature requires long attack chains. ANY other weapon benefits from a SHORT attack chain, as this means the char can repeat the move ad-nauseum until the enemy dies, and toss in attacks with effects to slow them down. if i manipulate my char until i can use my 2 starting attacks endlessly... then ill do massive amounts of damage and can CHANGE tactics at a moments notice, instead of losing the effect of continuous attacks, and can at any time toss in a knockback attack to keep the enemy from pounding me. point is, ideal Recharge is as low as possible.

Also, i already have the aforementioned Scythe Weapon page up HERE http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=227622

and i am planning on making 2 more ideas, if they pan out well with my fellow players, for an interesting new archetype, and for a morphic weapon... ull see.

NOW. no more replys please. im not checking this again. its to be left as an idea.

So basically a Zanpakuto? Love it.

For those who dont know what a Zanpakuto is, here

http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Zanpaku...ut.C5.8D_Facts

Seriously what's up with all the necro threads lately?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!