I actually found my WS very easy to solo, though I have to agree that they're even better on teams.
Oddly, Tsoo I found easier than on any other toon I've played. Ranged Nova FTW! Sorcerers were low priority targets, as I could out blasts their heals and hover outside their debuffs, allowing me to concentrate on the mezzers and damage dealers. Nova would kill anything in about 2-3 hits I found, so once you aoe them and they scatter, you could just pick them off easy.
Stygian Circle I found wasn't as game changing as I had hoped. While it was amazing at keeping you going and stopping downtime, it still wasn't viable to drop from Nova to Human to use it mid-fight.
Gravitic Emanation and Inky Aspect are a great combination, allowing you to stun most anything you jump in the middle of, leaving you free to mire, nova and blast the boss before they wake up.
Cloak and SS worked great with Emanation/Aspect too, allowing you to get close and get into position without being noticed.
Starless Step is great too. Never used it on another too, but it's something I wouldn't be without on a WS. TP-ing in a void/quant or tough mob, stun/hold it, mire then nova form to kill it quick before it's buddies come to help out.
I had the same experience switching forms, though it happened only rarely, but when it did it was so frustrating. In the end, I found myself never dropping from Nova->Dwarf as it was too painful. I would just fly high or scoot out of there and hope the enemies gave up chasing. Though I think I was too stubborn and too undisciplined to change forms early enough. Human to Dwarf wasn't overly an issue and if I did get mezzed while changing, I often was able to re-do it in time before I faceplanted. Biggest problem I found was being in Inky Aspect, it was hard to tell at times if I was/had changed in time.
All the frustrations change at level 38 though and whether you're in Human or Nova or Dwarf it makes little difference. The shields become pretty much useless then anyway and if you do fail to change form, then you easily have enough time to try again.
For me, the biggest change, was slotting for ranged defence. I know most go with recharge for perma-eclipse, but I was never disciplined enough to re-apply eclipse at every recharge. Ranged defence allowed me to stay in Nova longer and blast longer.
I just found the constant changing of forms tedious, which is why I'm now playing a human-only PB.
WS's are awesome though and I don't think I've ever felt quite so powerful on any toon I've played.
Warshades are a pretty rough ride up to that level, and a little bit beyond. Once you get Inky Aspect and Gravitic Emanation they do start to get considerably more survivable. Hold on just a few more levels. Could be worse. You could be trying to level a Crab or Bane. Those things are just pure murder to get to 24.
In the meantime, how are you slotted? My advice would be to burn one of those vet-specs or a freespec and take advantage of the respec bug* to pre-slot your preferred form. Choose the form you're most comfortable with. If you can leverage the flying and speed of Nova to capitalize on its massive damage, then pre-slot the nova attacks for damage.
If you prefer the survivability of dwarf, then start slotting your dwarf attacks at level 3 - especially the mire. Once you get to slotting level 21, make sure you put both slots in dwarf form. Slot two damres and a Performance Shifter +end. If you can't afford that, then slot an endredux.
Once you level to 23, devote one more slot to dwarf (if you've decided to go that route) and slot an endmod. That leaves the other recharge slot for stygian circle.
*What's the respec bug, you say? Well, since your dwarf and nova powers are classified as "inherent" powers, they can be slotted from level 3 up on a respec. It only works when you respec (vise using a second build or just pre-slotting) because you take all the powers first before you slot on a respec, and the game knows to unlock those powers for slotting.
Oh, and one thing that helped me out at 22 was a nice little macro I put in my dwarf tray:
/macro sc "powexec_toggleoff black dwarf$$goto_tray 1$$powexec_name stygian circle"
See, lots of times - especially playing at x3 - lag in big battles can lead to fatal delays between dropping form and hitting stygian circle. Eventually you'll learn what the sweet spot is, but until then you'll have the handy-dandy sc macro that tells the game at the same time to do both in successive order, and there's no chance an enemy could get a hit in on you during the delay when you dropped to human form and hit stygian.
Just remember to mash your dwarf form keybind IMMEDIATELY after hitting the macro so you can jump back to dwarf ASAP. Eventually you'll be able to swap out and use this one:
/macro ia "powexec_toggleoff black dwarf$$goto_tray 1$$powexec_name inky aspect"
and stygian/mire/go to form at your leisure.
Hope that helps!
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking Warshades are as easy to solo as they are on teams, and let yourself get overwhelmed. And while street sweeping, you don't have the option of selecting -1/x4 or more and getting lots of bodies for Mire. You have to take what you get, which can often be too much.
I've found soloing my WS is easiest when I play cautious. Form switch only when I know I have the upper hand and can't get mezzed. Use Mire on small groups. (possibly slotting for Endurance so this is efficient) Maybe have a second build with a Human/Dwarf Form or at least more solo-oriented slotting on a Tri-Form. And don't wimp out on the Dwarf, your melee damage should be coming from there, not Human form. If you can't sustain a long period of time in Dwarf, to protect yourself from the mezzes, then your Dwarf probably isn't slotted well enough for WS purposes.
YMMV, of course. 
My highest Kheldian is my Warshade, though, and I almost exclusively solo. And I'll add that the period from 20-30 can be both the most frustrating and the most rewarding for the WS.
I will also second Smiling Joe's suggestion to respec if you haven't. What I said above about making sure your Dwarf is slotted for sufficient damage? You need to start on that from level 1. So yeah, burn a respec and drop some slots into those powers early on.
And with his keybind, make sure that you remember that you should be doing NOTHING when you hit that keybind. If you've queued up an attack, it'll fail to return you to human form, but send you to tray 1. This is a known "bug" with Kheldians. Since you're in Dwarf form anyway, just pause long enough to ensure all your attacks have gone off, you shouldn't be mezzed and you can take the damage. Then hit your macro and as Joe said, immediately hit your Dwarf keybind to queue up the return to Dwarf form once the Stygian Circle goes off.
What's your build like buddy? Human/Dwarf? Human/Nova?
First a joke to get out of my system. Warshades are not blue. The devs won't let us color customize.
(I know I am not funny.)
Anyway the only problems I have with my low 20s warshades is CoT ghosts and BP.
The Tsoo, especially on the streets of Talos and IP, I kill at will with Nova form. If a sorc mezzes me I just get to hang out up in the air until it breaks or I can switch to Dwarf and slap them around a bit.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
I'd gone tri-form.
I'd slotted out the Nova AoE's (1 acc, 3 dam) and the human single target blasts (Ebon Eye, Shadow Blast and Gravimetric Snare) and Gravity Well, and got 3 recharge into Sunless Mire.
Dwarf no extra slots, both the power itself and the inherents. It performed fine when I managed to make the transition.
By the sounds of it, I'd get more mileage out of slotting Nova up at this level rather than human form?
Honestly if your getting and slotting the squid form (and I think you should 1.2 damage scaler and +45% damage boost in squid vs I think between .85 and 1.0 on human blasts with no +damage) then all your doing is double slotting basicly the same attacks except worse damage in human.
I NEVER slot any of the human blasts beyond the initial slot. This is IMHO one of the reasons alot of people come up with the idea that Kheldians are more slot starved than they truely are. The second being the weirdo idea that all powers have to be 5 or 6 slotted to be "good".
Use the respec trick I "think" Joe mentioned abouve.
*Edit This is not to say don't slot up any human form attacks but simply not slot ones duplicated by your other forms with the exception of Mire.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
Hmmm....
On my PeaceBringer (who got to 50), I pretty much ended up staying in human form most of the time, with the odd drop into Dwarf when I got into trouble. I'd got the Nova and human single target and AoE blasts slotted, but basically found the switch to Nova form too slow and irritating a lot of the time to make it really worth using.
That was on a PeaceBringer...
On a Warshade, things are different. The human form has less innate firepower, making Nova more valuable. Nova form can also get boosted by powers like the two Mires and eventually Eclipse.
Is it fair to say that Warshades require a bit more shapeshifting than PeaceBringers? Its starting to look that way
To be honest Dr it's one of those "to each his own" type of deal. I didn't try for Tri form until I was lvl 40+ (I went Dwarf/Human). I could not imagine leveling a WS with my slots stretched out so much at the low levels. Indeed you are correct about the form switching. With a WS you will be switching in and out a lot until the 30's. At level 25 I only found myself switching to human form to use Sunless Mire, Gravity Well and Stygian Circle because....well, they are awesome-sauce.
I found myself in this pattern well into the late 20's but once you hit 30 the magic starts to happen. Warshades take some time so try to hang in there. I know after leveling a PB they can be a bit...slow in comparison.
I love my Warshade! To be honest he's the closest thing to a Necromancer in this game.
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I can't understand taking attacks and then not slotting them. I mean, sure, you don't need most powers that are duplicated in your forms (as a Tri-Former) and you do have to take SOMETHING. But why take blasts? I would think something "useless" like Orbiting Death or Nebulous Form would be a better use of a power pick, and would see the occasional use even with only one slot. |
Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
I NEVER slot any of the human blasts beyond the initial slot. This is IMHO one of the reasons alot of people come up with the idea that Kheldians are more slot starved than they truely are. The second being the weirdo idea that all powers have to be 5 or 6 slotted to be "good".
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At the very least, the melee attacks can be taken, and used as a heal and a hold respectively, not to deal damage. But in my case, my Tri Former takes Ebon Eye as his only blast, fairly well slotted so he can use it to complement his melee attacks. Then for his alternate Human/Dwarf build he takes the rest of the blasts.
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I'll also add that I've been playing my Warshade lately, after respec'ing his build in preparation for Going Rogue. I had forgotten that while my Tri-Form build was fine, I had not yet finished my Human/Dwarf build, leaving the Dwarf with just his basic slots as you described. I found it VERY hard to play the way I thought I had been playing, using primarily Dwarf form to avoid mezzing. With no damage to speak of I was getting killed. I switched to using Human form exclusively, and despite occasional mezzes, I did much better. |
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
Dwarf no extra slots, both the power itself and the inherents. It performed fine when I managed to make the transition.
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I switched to my more developed Tri-Form, and it suddenly got loads easier. Again, because my Dwarf form was slotted well enough to deal damage. Your perception that the forms do more damage than the Human form compared to Peacebringers is correct. Being unable to deal damage in either form can be a problem, moreso than a PB, where you can get away with a "pure" tanking Dwarf form.
My advice would be to spread out the slots a little more, and give the Dwarf more of them. I chose to use melee attacks only in Human form, like I said above, so there would be no overlap with Nova. However, if you want to go for a Tri-Form where you are mostly in Human form, with Nova and Dwarf for emergencies, then give it a try. I would recommend Frankenslotting IOs, so you can make best use of the Human slots without shortchanging the forms. Also, make use of the Human form's stealth and teleport foe to be a sort of semi-ranged Stalker.
Either that or go Bi-Form, or use Nova as a Fly power.
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I get your confusion, but at the same time I don't know how many people actually slot up kick when their trying to get tough and weave, it's a waste of slots better (usually) put elsewhere.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
I can't understand taking attacks and then not slotting them. I mean, sure, you don't need most powers that are duplicated in your forms (as a Tri-Former) and you do have to take SOMETHING. But why take blasts? I would think something "useless" like Orbiting Death or Nebulous Form would be a better use of a power pick, and would see the occasional use even with only one slot.
At the very least, the melee attacks can be taken, and used as a heal and a hold respectively, not to deal damage. But in my case, my Tri Former takes Ebon Eye as his only blast, fairly well slotted so he can use it to complement his melee attacks. Then for his alternate Human/Dwarf build he takes the rest of the blasts. |
You are forced to take at least one of the blasts and two if you don't take Orbiting Debt ( I never do, to me it's a slow tick, low damage attack that really only becomes valuable when slotted with at least 2 damage procs and even then you can destroy entire groups of mobs from squid form in less time than waiting out the debt monger).
As for why specificly I will not slot up the human attacks, here is why.
(Unslotted attacks) (Damage) (Recharge) (Range) (Endurance used)
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Shadow Bolt-Human 26.7 1.5 80' 3.12
Nova Bolt-Squid 58.1 1.5 100' 3.12
Ebon Eye-Human 44.5 4 80' 5.2
Nova Blast-Squid 96.8 4 100' 5.2
Shadow Blast-Human 73 8 80' 8.53
Nova Emmanation 95.8 AoE 12 60' 11.9
Dark Detonation-Human 58.1 AoE 16 80' 16.2
Nova Detonation-Squid 87.1 AoE 16 100' 15.2
Slotting will not change this nor will Sunless Mire, you get more survivability if your in human form with shields on but once you have Eclipse (especialy perma) the shields are only sucking endurance and muling sets.
I believe the key is rapid constant shapeshifting to fire off mire/eclipse/nukes/stygian circle/dwarf mire/unchain essence/extracted essence to keep your buffs stacked to high heaven.
Staying in one form or another for long periods of time is like stopping the rollercoaster every 30 feet to make sure everyone is ok. Sure their ok but they didn't hop on a rollercoaster to play it safe.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
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Well, I can certainly see that you're stuck with Ebon Eye or Shadow Bolt, that's why I have it in my build. But I can't see why you would take an attack and never use it, over Orbiting Death and never use it. If it's just a placeholder power, then what the heck difference does it make if it gets you debt? You're never going to use it anyway. |
Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
You are forced to take at least one of the blasts and two if you don't take Orbiting Debt ( I never do, to me it's a slow tick, low damage attack that really only becomes valuable when slotted with at least 2 damage procs and even then you can destroy entire groups of mobs from squid form in less time than waiting out the debt monger).
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At the very most, I would expect that you could make use of Ebon Eye, and Gravimetric Snare. Ebon Eye is the stronger of the two attacks, and Gravimetric Snare at least has a use as an Immobilize power. Past that, you should have enough choices to avoid any other blasts if you want to.
As for Tri-Form "dancing", while it's certainly my favorite strategy, the OP made it clear he's not going for that. He wants a solid build that can maintain a single form, similar to his Peacebringer. You're not really going to be able to do a Tri-Form Warshade that way, he's going to have to either go with a Human/Dwarf build, or concentrate on Human form. And in such a case, the Nova blasts aren't an issue, because they don't exist. The idea is to use the Human Form shields to be able to survive long enough to use the lower damage blasts. Either that or duck into Dwarf form and use the blasts to pull or as the opening volley.
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My intention was to mainly respond to this in my previous post.|
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
Hmmm....
On my PeaceBringer (who got to 50), I pretty much ended up staying in human form most of the time, with the odd drop into Dwarf when I got into trouble. I'd got the Nova and human single target and AoE blasts slotted, but basically found the switch to Nova form too slow and irritating a lot of the time to make it really worth using. That was on a PeaceBringer... On a Warshade, things are different. The human form has less innate firepower, making Nova more valuable. Nova form can also get boosted by powers like the two Mires and eventually Eclipse. Is it fair to say that Warshades require a bit more shapeshifting than PeaceBringers? Its starting to look that way |
I do infact have a hammi acc/dam in both initial blasts and i do use then to finish off a mob with a tiny bit of life left.
He/She inquired about the amount of shapeshifting involved and I replied as to my own views on it, as well as demonstrated the benefit of squid blasts over human ones.
He/She can take and use (or not) this as he/she wishes.
Not trying to be argumentative, just pointing out why I said what I said.
*Edit: I was also interested in showing why I dont slot the human blasts, as you seemed curious.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
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This never happened..|
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
Even worse, getting mezzed while switching to Dwarf got me killed once at least.
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You can be mezzed as human form and pop into dwarf form to break the mez.. That was one of the changes to PB's and WS's.
So I know you definitely didn't get mezzed going into dwarf form thus stopping the change to dwarf.
That being said, WS's are very hard to level up at first, I think they really start shinning after level 32 to be honest..
If you want to Triform, go for it, but keep in mind that your strongest blasts are going to come from nova form and your resistances are going to come from dwarf form. Keep that in mind and consider your human form the utility form.
Swap out some of the attacks you won't use and shields for utility adders..
Like Super speed to go along with your shadow cloak. And hasten to make your ability to pump out fluffies better.
That being said, I find gavity well to be a must have, stygian circle, shadow cloak, the anchor power (the immobilization one, I can't think of it's name), eclipse and extract essence to be the most important of the human powers.
Use that respec to dump those slots that you have for power levels 1-5 into your nova form, and then use some of the slots from 10-20 to dump into dwarf.
There's some great (rather inexpensive) builds out there. you don't NEED to capitalize on recharge or anything to make a good WS.
But certainly the ride isn't that easy.
Level 32 is a big changed because having at least one fluffy means that you can sit in tank form when the going gets touch and let your pocket blaster handle it for you.
Level 38 gives you eclipse which means you can also sit in nova form with your pocket blaster(s?) and deal out the pain..
WS is a fun ride.
I've got a PB to level 50 and a ws to level 42 right now.
Overall leveling the PB from 1-50 was much more smooth and consistent.
Levling the Shade from 1-32 was rough, 32-38 rougher (only because I was so amped for eclipse, the leveling itself was a lot easier than 1-32), and 39-now is just fun because she feels WAY more powerful than my PB.
So keep at it! Shades and PB's aren't really builds you can perfect without messing around with their builds numerous times..
I know my WS has blown ALL the free specs we've got thus far to come to where she is.
Oh yeah and my Ws has the shadow blast and shadow bolt (am I getting the names correct?) attacks and uses them pretty fequently.
I only have the entry slot in them with an acc/dam IO stuck in them.. but that's good enough for me since they are filler between applications of gravity well.
(I also don't like the animation of ebon eye so I avoided it).
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
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No, it does happen. If you get mezzed while in the middle of the transformation animation, you stop transforming. You can then start the transformation again and succeed, but I can see how someone would die if they really needed to go Dwarf and had to wait twice as long (or more) to do so :P
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Originally Posted by JusticeisServed
This never happened..
You can be mezzed as human form and pop into dwarf form to break the mez.. That was one of the changes to PB's and WS's. So I know you definitely didn't get mezzed going into dwarf form thus stopping the change to dwarf. |
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I concur this does indeed happen. Doesn't really matter once you get eclipse as you can make it passed the "pause", but before that, if you have aggro, you can get mezzed and will remain mezzed, if they get you a second time during the transformation. You will remain human and unable to change for a few seconds.
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Originally Posted by Nishastra
No, it does happen. If you get mezzed while in the middle of the transformation animation, you stop transforming. You can then start the transformation again and succeed, but I can see how someone would die if they really needed to go Dwarf and had to wait twice as long (or more) to do so :P
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Originally Posted by Nishastra
No, it does happen. If you get mezzed while in the middle of the transformation animation, you stop transforming. You can then start the transformation again and succed, but I can see how someone would die if they really needed to go Dwarf and had to wait twice as long (or more) to do so :P
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Late2Party
I concur this does indeed happen. Doesn't really matter once you get eclipse as you can make it passed the "pause", but before that, if you have aggro, you can get mezzed and will remain mezzed, if they get you a second time during the transformation. You will remain human and unable to change for a few seconds.
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This is something I must have been lucky and never really experienced (or just assumed there was some other reason behind it and shrugged it off).
The worst thing I've dealt with is when dropping ot human and not realizing I had a mez on me.
That's what killed my PB once and a while.
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
Yeah, thats exactly what kept happening.
Bunch up in the constipated shake animation, get mezzed. Press transfrom button again, start bunching up again then turn to dwarf if no-one interrupts me this time. I believe the devs are aware of this issue, but its a hard one to fix and low priority.
I'm still not a fan of the length of the shapeshifting animation. It has occurred to me that it will be less of a burden on a WS since it's not cutting into a precious 10 seconds of Build Up time.
Thanks for all the advice, people! Some really useful tips in this thread
I hopped on my Warshade (now 22) after a long break last night. I'd had the idea of giving him a female form, conceptualised as a separate character in the symbiote, kind of like Starhawk/Aleta from Guardians of the Galaxy. I treated myself to the Science pack and spoke to Serge to do the costume slot mission. I thought "Yay! Stygian Circle! this should be a cakewalk..."
I had the worse time defeating 30 Tsoo I've ever had! Honour dictates I go to Talos and pick on even-cons, but I think I died 5 times before I was done.
Now, I know:
- Tsoo are tricky mobs at level 22, with the mezzing Ink Men and Sorcerors often giving 3 priority targets per group.
- Warshades shine on teams rather than solo
- I dont have Gravitic Emanation yet, which will provide a nice margin of safety
- I was rusty to say the least, hadn't played my 'shade for over 3 months, and my PeaceBringer has been on the shefl at 50 for much longer.
One of the biggest problems I found was the time to switch forms - it takes so long to switch, and I often end up getting beaten up during that dead time. Even worse, getting mezzed while switching to Dwarf got me killed once at least. Plus, all that form switching made the human shields less useful than they could have been due to the extra activation time to switch them back on.
I dunno, the whole experience made me feel like this AT comes so close to having a brilliant unique playstyle, but just falls short because of these issues. Faster form-change animations and suppressing human toggles (rather than switching them off) while in forms would be a huge improvement.
Thinking back to my PeaceBringer now, I dont think I used the forms much beyond level 30.
Does this match other people's experiences of Warshades, or Kheldians in general?