Hooray for Market Merge!


Aerik

 

Posted

Its gonna be very cool. Also we'll be able to use the email feature to send stuff from heroes to villains.....can finally outfit a villain now, or atleast I will in August when the GR expansion comes out


Doc Midknight Dark/Dark/Dark Defender
Nether Raven Dark/Dark/Dark Scrapper
Master Midknight Dark/Dark/Soul Troller
Global: @DocMidknight (main) Global: @Doc Midknight (alt)

 

Posted

Yay! <3



@Tax E - RIP CoH 2012

 

Posted

Yay for cheaper prices on villains, that made my day


Hatter: "Have I gone Mad?"
(Alice checks Hatter's temperature)
Alice: "I'm afraid so. You're entirely bonkers, nutter, crazy, But I'll tell you a secret. All the best people are.

Alice in Wonderland (2010)

 

Posted

This just means there'll be more hoarding and prices overall will go up. People are stupid, the market doesn't follow normal rules.


 

Posted

Now don't flame me but there should be some sort of cap, the prices charged are something else T_T


@Naa - Liberty Server

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
Now don't flame me but there should be some sort of cap, the prices charged are something else T_T
Well, if they'd like to see any new players stick around and not log off forever due to the "I'm too late to enjoy this game" syndrome, they will do something about the market hoarders.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
Now don't flame me but there should be some sort of cap, the prices charged are something else T_T
/Agreed!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
Now don't flame me but there should be some sort of cap, the prices charged are something else T_T

I agree whole heartedly, Melanie!! There really does need to be a price cap.


 

Posted

There is a price cap. 2,000,000,000 INF for an item. It just happens to be that it's also the cap on what we can carry per toon. I've seen some of the PvP goodies going for that or more, and I can guarantee that the bids on a level 53 Hami-O are in that neighborhood to park large amount of INF.

If you institute a cap for a particular item, say 100 million for a LotG +RECH, then all bids for that particular piece will always be at the cap. Since people will know exactly what someone is willing to pay for an item, there is no reason not to charge the highest possible price. Or, you may run into a situation where people stop putting that particular IO on the market and instead will only trade it with players, conveniently circumventing the market altogether (a 'real' black market). As a general rule, price ceilings on things are a great short-term stop gap measure to deal with inflation. However, when suppliers can't get the full market value for their goods, they tend to either horde supply (as Crusha said) or circumvent the system. Either way, it's bad mojo for the consumers.

For lots of charts and graphs and mind-numbingly boring prose on the subject of price ceilings, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_ceiling

I suggest it right before bed.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
Now don't flame me but there should be some sort of cap, the prices charged are something else T_T
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andferne View Post
/Agreed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA_Outlaw_Woman View Post
I agree whole heartedly, Melanie!! There really does need to be a price cap.
As Aerik puts it, price caps are a bad idea. To see a real in-game example of this, check out a few of the PvP IOs which routinely go for 2 billion (the real price cap) on the market. Notice how lots of people are buying them off the market for 3-4 billion since they know they'll get them a lot faster than hoping their bid comes in before the 300 other people who are waiting to get one off the market. What this means is that the actual value of the item is between 3 and 4 billion, but it can't be listed on the market for that amount so people who want to get a fair market value for their item seek buyers off the market, and vice versa. Let's pretend the value of a Miracle +Recovery is 200 million right now, and suddenly a price cap of 100 million is instituted. People will know that IO is worth more off the market so they will not even bother to list it in the first place - in other words there will be a supply shortage and you'll be lucky to get one on the market for that 100 million. In fact you'll probably end up paying more to someone off-market than you'd have been paying had there not been a price cap in place.

Don't forget that higher prices only suck if you buy more than you sell. Just remember that that purple which sells for 500 million means you will make 500 million if you get one and sell it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green_Eyed_Lady View Post
Well, if they'd like to see any new players stick around and not log off forever due to the "I'm too late to enjoy this game" syndrome, they will do something about the market hoarders.
The current prices have little to do with hoarding (as there is not a finite amount of items since they're basically generated out of thin air) and everything to do with the increased earning power of level 50s, the change to the leveling curve/debt reduction/patrol XP, and the Mission Architect system. In reality, people who hoard IOs are doing exactly the same thing as the people who are IOing their characters (since they are removing things from the market and keeping them off) - by that sort of logic anyone who is IOing a character is hoarding and therefore to blame for the market situation.

I suggest everyone thinking that price caps are a good idea take a look at Aerik's link.


@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

 

Posted

If the devs want to drop prices they could just adjust the drop rate, increasing supply. Look at how the prices for costume pieces have bottomed since they increased how many drop.

A better idea than a price ceiling would be fixed prices for certain items. These items would still drop like normal and you could still get them just as you can now, but you can also pay say 200 million for LotG recharge.

People could still list them, but obviously for less than the fixed price. So you could get a bargain or just pay the fixed price or roll it merit wise or buy it merit wise or just get a lucky drop.

I agree with marketers that probably nothing will be done until they get a chance to see how the merger effects prices and supply. So I would guess nothing until October.


 

Posted

The issue with price fixing is that it essentially creates a store for certain items, so there's no point in even having a market. Certain items are expensive because they have high demand and low supply, and are therefore not available to everyone - which is, I think, the way the devs want it to be. If certain items aren't hard to get, they lose their value. It's the whole "carrot on a stick" thing - if the carrot is rotten, why bother trying to get it?


@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

 

Posted

As someone who just got his 12 month Vet badge, I can tell you that no one is too late to enjoy this game.

I don't I/O every toon I have but I do have a fair number of I/O enhancments sets. I was able to stockpile about 1.35 billion in influence in just about 6 months of playing (since December).

That was without:

Farming Merits
Farming AE
No PVP I/O
No Purple Drops (I hear people get thess but I never have had one drop)
Playing my Level 50
RMT

I just played an embrassing number of alts and did TF's when one came around and did door missions. I crafted my drops and did a little marketing (limited to really just learning how to price and how to be a little patiant for bids to drop and stuff to sell). So I guess I feel if I could do it, then anyone could.

I'll never be as rich as the dedicated marketers who farm merits or AE or even those who get the lucky PvP drop, but I suspect I will hit the Inf cap at least once. Plenty of money to fund my alts with Common I/Os and still get a few Posi blast sets for the deserving blaster. Heck I even craft and buy to equip my sister's (RL) toons.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by macskull View Post
The issue with price fixing is that it essentially creates a store for certain items, so there's no point in even having a market. Certain items are expensive because they have high demand and low supply, and are therefore not available to everyone - which is, I think, the way the devs want it to be. If certain items aren't hard to get, they lose their value. It's the whole "carrot on a stick" thing - if the carrot is rotten, why bother trying to get it?
Sure there's a reason for having market. If I would rather have 80 million inf than a LotG recharge someone saves 20 percent and I got 80 million (minus fees of course).

In addition, that 100 million inf is removed from the game. Less money chasing goods should bring prices down overall, not just one the fixed prices items.

Plus I wouldn't imagine that everything would be there just some highly priced items. You would still need to get the other pieces of the sets and the salvage to craft it. Maybe it could be pieces of uncommon sets capped at level 35 where there is virtualy no supply to speak of.

Also, what changes will the Incarnate system bring? It could de-emphasize the "need" for I/O sets.

Ultimately the Devs want (getting my tarot cards out) people to keep spending a monthly fee. I think they will do whatever will bring that about. I don't think having some things readily available to buy will deincentify the game. It certainly didn't when they lowered the level when you qualify for the EATs.


 

Posted

I look forward to the merge. It'll be nice to have more stuff available red side. Currently there are things you just can't buy red side due to the low supply. I've had decent bids on some recipes sitting for 6 months or more because there are just none for sale.

It will also be nice to be able to sell the pet recipes that drop on blue side.

I'm not sure exactly what'll happen to prices. As people mentioned elsewhere, the prices will be determined by player behaviour more than the merge. With so much to do in GR at all levels it's hard to say how that will affect the market, but the merge will give more users and more supply so that should be an improvement.

Regarding price caps, I agree with Macskull and the others. We can see how the current cap of 2 billion affects some of the PVP IOs already, but those are super rare and desirable, so they're kind of a special case. A lower cap would result in more stuff going off market, or having to wait in a line of hundreds for your capped bids to be filled.

It'll be interesting to see how the reboot of the market will affect prices.


 

Posted

I was actually talking about the salvage. People manipulate the free market system by buying up the supply and mete it out at ridiculously inflated prices. That's not capitalism and that's what I'm talking about.

The recipes are what they are.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green_Eyed_Lady View Post
I was actually talking about the salvage. People manipulate the free market system by buying up the supply and mete it out at ridiculously inflated prices. That's not capitalism and that's what I'm talking about.

The recipes are what they are.
Even in the real world, sellers can't realistically price their goods above what people are willing to pay for them - for example, if Mattel suddenly decided they were going to charge $200 for a Barbie doll, no one would pay that and they'd have to lower their prices to something more reasonable. If Starbucks decided to charge $20 for a small cup of coffee, the same thing would happen. The reason I'm not using an example like higher gas prices is because things like Starbucks and Barbies are basically optional luxuries (like IOs), not necessities like gasoline or food (equated to SOs in this analogy). The real world market is also a bit different than this game's market because there's a limited supply in the real world so one person can control that entire supply and thereby set the price.

Luckily, the CoX market doesn't work that way - supply is generated out of thin air (especially salvage, which seems to be the brunt of your complaint here). Someone can buy up all the supply of a particular salvage and attempt to raise the price (I've done it more than once as an experiment) and sometimes even profit off it, but keeping up with it and knowing when to get out before prices crash again and you get burned isn't something that always happens. It requires a lot of constant effort to maintain control over a specific piece of salvage and it is impossible to do so in the long-term. Why? A player can't control supply coming into the market, so eventually supply catches back up to demand and prices settle down to where they were before the manipulation. Usually, price spikes due to manipulation last a matter of hours at most, and it's quite rare to see them last more than a day or two. If you're at the market and you see Luck Charms are going for 500k and you know they were going for 50k a day ago, place some bids for 50k or 60k and come back a few hours later (or maybe the next morning) and the odds are really good that bid will have filled.


@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green_Eyed_Lady View Post
I was actually talking about the salvage. People manipulate the free market system by buying up the supply and mete it out at ridiculously inflated prices. That's not capitalism and that's what I'm talking about.

The recipes are what they are.
I've noticed that too but mostly on the weekends, I can buy a Ruby for 500 on a weekday, be lucky to get one for 100k on the weekends. So I don't craft anything on the weekends anymore.


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