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Genin actually have an old school Comic look compared to the Jounin witch have a newer(90's style) Cartoon look while the Oni has the old school Demon human look goin on for it. However skipping the Genin imo is a huge disadvantage to you as thiers 3 of them even know thier low lvl compared to you at 50 thier single target dmg is a noticable loss. However your skippin em and thats your choice so i would go /FF skip Concealment and put in Leadership for Maunuvers and Tactics drop off Medicine and pick up CJ or Hasten and shoot for a high Recharge on your MM and aim for perma hasten if possible or shoot for High Def and stack up for Softcapped def on your MM. With /Dark you gotta count in the -tohit your debuffs do and you get a bit closer to the softcap with them. Heals on Ninja's however are pretty useless cuse if something is able to hit them itll likely kill them in either 1-2 hits so ive learned with my Nin/FF MM its better to shoot for High recharge and just recall the lost ones and with the last buff to MM's upgrades it makes upgradeing the lost ones go much quicker in battles.
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Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
I'm trying to decide which one is better. I'm skipping Genin either way. (Just don't like how they look - not ninja enough for me.)
With Dark I've got lots of attack debuffs to keep my Jounin alive, but the highest defense I'm likely to get them up to is around 25%. I think Tar Pit would be awesome with the kind of damage they deal. However, with only Jounin and Oni, I'm worried they might get killed between heals. If I go FF, however, I can cap their defense up to 45% or higher. With FF, I'd want to take the concealment pool, fitness, medicine, and probably flight - leaving no room for any martial arts attacks (which doesn't feel very fullfilling on a ninja.) |
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On /FF, part of the problem is that I just don't want to have to maintain that many shields. When I'm on a team of 8 people with a /FF MM, I try to perma buff everybody. (Makes your teammates very happy. :-) ) Cutting my # of henchmen down by half really makes my life a lot more convenient. |
Originally Posted by Retilian
Genin actually have an old school Comic look compared to the Jounin witch have a newer(90's style) Cartoon look while the Oni has the old school Demon human look goin on for it. However skipping the Genin imo is a huge disadvantage to you as thiers 3 of them even know thier low lvl compared to you at 50 thier single target dmg is a noticable loss.
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| With /Dark you gotta count in the -tohit your debuffs do and you get a bit closer to the softcap with them. |
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| Heals on Ninja's however are pretty useless cuse if something is able to hit them itll likely kill them in either 1-2 hits so ive learned with my Nin/FF MM its better to shoot for High recharge and just recall the lost ones and with the last buff to MM's upgrades it makes upgradeing the lost ones go much quicker in battles. |
The thing with taking medicine on /FF is you can heal a Jounin from the very brink of death up to about 2/3 his health or better. If you use your smoke bomb to save them when they're in trouble, then heal them immediately afterward, you can make it so your Jounin hardly ever die. It's almost an advantage not to bother with Genin because your medicine power is only useful for keeping a small handful of henchmen healthy.
The other advantage I'm thinking with Ninjas and Dark is that most of your Jounin's attacks have def debuff, so if you're careful to target their target, then your heals will hardly ever miss. But....as you've been pointing out (and I very much agree), heals are only marginally useful on ninjas.
.... Maybe that seals up the decision: Why take the one set with the most powerful heal in the game (small radius, but very high hit points), when your Jounin don't even have that many hit points?
Go Ninja/FF and learn to rotate your shield refreshes. Pick up Genin anyway, so that you can solo, and just simply fail to summon them while in teams.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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So I've been reading the paragonwiki article on this: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics|
Originally Posted by Retilian
With /Dark you gotta count in the -tohit your debuffs do and you get a bit closer to the softcap with them.
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Apparently the calculation is: HitChance = Clamp( AccMods × Clamp( BaseHitChance + ToHitMods – DefMods ) )
Clamp means, if the calculation is lower than 5% or higher than 95%, it gets set to 5% or 95% respectively. AccMod is what enhancements do for you. ToHitMod is from Aim or Build up powers, and it's what -ToHit powers inflict.
Anyway.... from what I can see in this article, you're right that -Tohit does exactly the same thing, to exactly the same degree as +defense. The only exception would be AV's, because they've usually got debuff resistance, so your -Tohit will be cut down by some kind of fraction when you use it on them.
So Dark, gives you -3.75 from your targeted heal, -11.25 from Darkest Night, and -11.25 from Fearsome Stare. So the latter two are -22.5 together (more with enhancements), so that should get you to soft cap on most enemies. Also, fluffy continually debuffs them by -30 (more with enhancements) in a 10 foot radius, so he's basically immune to melee. (And he adds another Darkest Night with -15, so maybe that would super cap your boys.)
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Archvillain_Resistance
From this article, it appears their resistance is 60-87% ToHit Debuff Resistance, more if they're higher in level than you. So, /FF would be way more powerful against them.
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| Heals on Ninja's however are pretty useless cuse if something is able to hit them itll likely kill them in either 1-2 hits so ive learned with my Nin/FF MM its better to shoot for High recharge and just recall the lost ones and with the last buff to MM's upgrades it makes upgradeing the lost ones go much quicker in battles. |
I think it all comes down to Endurance. If you've got plenty of endurance recovery, then by all means, just resummon them when they die. If not, well then healing them uses a lot less end than resummoning. (Plus there's the added bonus that you can take self heal in the power pool, which is nice.)
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What I mean is that, your Jounin's basic defense of 14 + 3.75 (enhanced to ~5%) from shadow fall + 5 from Edict of the Master +5% defense proc, should get you close to soft cap. |
Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
So Dark, gives you -3.75 from your targeted heal, -11.25 from Darkest Night, and -11.25 from Fearsome Stare. So the latter two are -22.5 together (more with enhancements), so that should get you to soft cap on most enemies. Also, fluffy continually debuffs them by -30 (more with enhancements) in a 10 foot radius, so he's basically immune to melee. (And he adds another Darkest Night with -15, so maybe that would super cap your boys.) |
Your debuffs are each 11.25 (enhanced to ~16%), so total of 22.5 (enhanced to ~32%)
Ninja Defense ~19%
BaseHitChance is 50% for most mobs. (A little higher if they're higher level than you.)
The full attack calculation is HitChance = Clamp( AccMods × Clamp( BaseHitChance + ToHitMods DefMods ) ),, but when we talk about soft capping, that's only the last part:
Clamp( BaseHitChance + ToHitMods DefMods ) So it would be: Clamp( 50 - 32 -19) And the clamp would definitely have to kick in to prevent that from being a zero chance.
My 2 cents. I'll never do another /FF mastermind. Sure it is great but I was so bored most of the time. When I finally got my patron powers I at least felt like I was playing but it still was very boring for me. I like to be active beyond just directing the pets.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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That is actually a really good basis to consider. With my Ninjas/FF build, the only attacks she has are Snap Shot, Force Bolt, and Sands of Mu. That could get pretty boring. Better off not attacking at all most of the time, rather than doing little snippets of damage (or drawing loads of aggro with Sands.)
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
My 2 cents. I'll never do another /FF mastermind. Sure it is great but I was so bored most of the time. When I finally got my patron powers I at least felt like I was playing but it still was very boring for me. I like to be active beyond just directing the pets.
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On my level 50 Thugs/Dark, I had no attacks (except the vet attacks) until I got some Ghost Widow goodness.
I tend to play my MMs like I am a defender with my own little team. I keep them alive and they kill stuff.
I haven't played a Ninja MM to any decent level. I have a Necro/Therm at 20 that is fun, but is a different animal.
I've got a Ninja/TA ... and my Ninjas do all the damage, just about. Only damage I do personally is via Oil Slick (ON FIRE!) and the occasional Sands of Mu if anything gets too stupid. The rest of the time, I'm fully invested in deploying my Trick Arrows and Directing Traffic. Given how ... spastic ... Ninjas are, simply Directing Traffic is a full time job when you're not just leaving them on Aggressive.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Use this build and just replace robots with Ninja and have some fun. Just open it up in Mids and just click the Ninja Tab, the pets will be replaced. You can swap out some powers from the PRIMARY ONLY . Just keep an eye on your defenses. Though I am pretty sure they will have no effect, but I didn't check it out to be certain.
I have a Robot FF at 50, Safe Yes.. But it is Boring. As some mentioned
Today the way pets just run around, your best bet is to control the Bad guys not your pets. I think the Pet AI is or has gotten worse and I cannot tell you how many times I and probably many others including yourself maybe have seen Masterminds pets pull aggro at the wrong time from the wrong mobs.
So you have a better chance of Provoking the mobs to attack you while your pets go to town. Plus you can just Drop Time Bombs as it recharges every 8 to 9 seconds.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Traps
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Battle Drones
- (A) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Blood Mandate - Damage/Endurance
- (3) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance
- (5) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (5) Blood Mandate - Accuracy
- (9) Blood Mandate - Damage
- (A) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
- (A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
- (9) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
- (11) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
- (17) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
- (39) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (A) Harmonized Healing - Heal/Recharge
- (7) Miracle - Heal/Recharge
- (7) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
- (50) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Recharge
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Accuracy IO
- (A) Shield Breaker - Defense Debuff
- (11) Shield Breaker - Defense Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
- (23) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Defense Debuff
- (33) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Recharge
- (39) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage
- (A) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage
- (13) Blood Mandate - Damage/Endurance
- (13) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance
- (34) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (37) Blood Mandate - Accuracy
- (40) Blood Mandate - Damage
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (15) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance
- (15) Aegis - Resistance/Recharge
- (19) Aegis - Endurance/Recharge
- (21) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (21) Aegis - Resistance
- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (17) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (19) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (34) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (34) Red Fortune - Defense
- (40) Red Fortune - Endurance
- (A) Jumping IO
- (A) Essence of Curare - Accuracy/Recharge
- (42) Ghost Widow's Embrace - Accuracy/Recharge
- (42) Essence of Curare - Accuracy/Hold/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (23) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (43) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (A) Healing IO
- (25) Healing IO
- (25) Healing IO
- (A) Endurance Modification IO
- (27) Endurance Modification IO
- (27) Endurance Modification IO
- (A) Cloud Senses - ToHit Debuff
- (29) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/ToHitDebuff
- (29) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Recharge
- (31) Cloud Senses - ToHit Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Energy Damage
- (A) Mocking Beratement - Taunt
- (33) Mocking Beratement - Accuracy/Recharge
- (33) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Recharge
- (46) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Recharge/Range
- (48) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Range
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
- (36) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
- (36) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
- (36) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
- (37) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (37) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
- (A) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage
- (39) Blood Mandate - Damage/Endurance
- (40) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance
- (42) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (43) Blood Mandate - Accuracy
- (48) Blood Mandate - Damage
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (43) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (48) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (A) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Recharge
- (45) Trap of the Hunter - Endurance/Immobilize
- (45) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Endurance
- (45) Trap of the Hunter - Immobilize/Accuracy
- (46) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
- (46) Trap of the Hunter - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
Level 6: Ninja Run
Code:
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1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Ninja/Dark is pretty good, however Ninja/FF will teach you a valuable lesson in prioritizing your buffs that is easy to apply to actual teams, I.E., never buffing the Genin because they're zerging morons.
I'm trying to decide which one is better. I'm skipping Genin either way. (Just don't like how they look - not ninja enough for me.)
With Dark I've got lots of attack debuffs to keep my Jounin alive, but the highest defense I'm likely to get them up to is around 25%. I think Tar Pit would be awesome with the kind of damage they deal. However, with only Jounin and Oni, I'm worried they might get killed between heals.
If I go FF, however, I can cap their defense up to 45% or higher. With FF, I'd want to take the concealment pool, fitness, medicine, and probably flight - leaving no room for any martial arts attacks (which doesn't feel very fullfilling on a ninja.)