+res and -dmg = same result?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

As title says, do +resists and -damage do the same thing in terms of reducing incoming damage or is one more effective than the other?


 

Posted

If there are any enemies that resist -Damage debuffs (and I'm not sure that there are), +Resist would be better in those circumstances I'd think. On the other hand, -Damage would help everyone subjected to the debuffed enemy's attacks, whereas +Resist would only help the buffed character.

But otherwise, I'd imagine that a percentage reduction to the enemies' damage would be the same regardless of which side of the attack it happened on.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Ok thanks for the info guys.

Should help planning a most resistant corruptor


 

Posted

Also consider damage types. Usually +res only benefits a few damage types and always leaves at least 1 type as a hole (except for weird PvP rules). But -damage almost always debuffs all damage types.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
If there are any enemies that resist -Damage debuffs (and I'm not sure that there are), +Resist would be better in those circumstances I'd think.
Resistance resists damage debuffs for the appropriate damage type, so there are quite a lot of foes that do so. Conversely, if you also have -res, then -dam becomes even better.


 

Posted

Short Answer:

Resistance is better, simply because it is unaffected by enemy level and/or enemy damage resistance.

Edit: Just a note that while resistance is better, most resistance buffing powers don't buff all resistances while almost all damage debuff powers affect all types. Off the top of my head Infrigidate is the only power I can think of that only debuffs one specific type(fire)


Long answer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
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Originally Posted by Tylerst View Post
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TL;DR


 

Posted

So from what you guys are saying its not as useful as it would be combined with resists in PvP since everyone will have high resists?


 

Posted

What powers specifically are you considering? Now that we know you are talking about PvP, it would also help to know the powers.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
If there are any enemies that resist -Damage debuffs (and I'm not sure that there are), +Resist would be better in those circumstances I'd think. On the other hand, -Damage would help everyone subjected to the debuffed enemy's attacks, whereas +Resist would only help the buffed character.
Normal Damage Resistance resists Damage debuffs, as noted earlier. Level differences affect the debuff as well (see Purple Patch).

However, assuming X% Damage debuff actually affecting the target (whether X% vs. a target with 0% Damage Resistance, or X% after the Damage Resistance has reduced the original value), it is exactly equal to X% Damage Resistance buff on yourself.

Of course, while on a team, a Damage debuff will benefit all of your teammates, while many Damage Resistance powers only affect yourself.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea View Post
What powers specifically are you considering? Now that we know you are talking about PvP, it would also help to know the powers.
I wasnt thinking of just PvP but I was thinking about that as well though. The build I was thinking about was a DP/Therm corruptor. Thinking Chem rounds and heat exhaustion stacked together would be some fairly decent -damage, then I could get tough and an epic power shield too.
Plus with heat exhaustions -recovery and -regen it would eventually wear most builds down if it can survive the incoming damage long enough.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
However, assuming X% Damage debuff actually affecting the target (whether X% vs. a target with 0% Damage Resistance, or X% after the Damage Resistance has reduced the original value), it is exactly equal to X% Damage Resistance buff on yourself.
That's only true if you have 0% resistance. Since both are applied multiplicatively if you have X% resistance and Y% -damage that less effective than having (X + Y)% of one of them.


 

Posted

I was speaking in a vacuum: -dam or +res. But yes, you're correct. Combining both is a different beast.

100 damage attack coming from enemy
-10% dmg reduces it to 90.
+10% res reduces it to 81.

If they stacked additively, the damage would have been reduced to 80.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
Normal Damage Resistance resists Damage debuffs, as noted earlier. Level differences affect the debuff as well (see Purple Patch).
Just as an additional note to this, -dam is one of the few debuffs not affected by Archvillain resistance, so you still get the full effect on AVs (after considering level differences and any damage resistances of course).


 

Posted

Also on an unrelated question, is psy fitting into ranged, melee or AoE damage now when it comes to defence?

I was argueing with someone earlier who was telling me that it does now but ever since i can remember ive been told its unpositional and only gets affected by psy defences, then he started telling me psy has a higher accuracy than any other attack...

Personally I think he was talking crap but just thought its better off checking in case I missed something.


 

Posted

According to RedTomax all of the powers in Psychic Blast have a positional tag as well as a typed tag. However none of the powers in Mind Control have a positional tag so not all psychic abilities do. And the only psychic blast attack with a higher than normal accuracy is Psychic Wail which has 1.5x instead of the 1.4x most nukes have.


 

Posted

ok but what about pve side with npcs?

Sorry I should have mentioned that was pve not pvp all i know is numina was hitting me a lot on my SR without purples even with elude up


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunstormer View Post
Also on an unrelated question, is psy fitting into ranged, melee or AoE damage now when it comes to defence?

I was argueing with someone earlier who was telling me that it does now but ever since i can remember ive been told its unpositional and only gets affected by psy defences, then he started telling me psy has a higher accuracy than any other attack...

Personally I think he was talking crap but just thought its better off checking in case I missed something.
Neither of you are right. All powers have 0 or more attack vectors. If the power's attack vector corresponds to one of your defenses, then your defense can apply. People talk about 'typed' or 'positional' attacks, but it really means nothing. It's entirely possible to have a power which uses both Melee_Attack and Ranged_Attack vectors. You can have a power which uses the Energy_Attack vector, but deals fire damage.

The misconception that psionic powers don't have 'positional' types is because Mind Control powers (and the powers which derive from powers in Mind Control, such as Illusion Control's [Blind] and [Deceive]) are all typed as simply Psionic_Attack, with no other vectors. I mean, Fearsome Stare doesn't have AoE_Attack, it only uses Negative_Attack, so it's not limited to psionic powers. Psychic Blast and Psionic Assault powers do incorportate the 'positional' vectors, so it's not a universal truth for psionic powers. And for the converse, there are powers which have a positional vector, without having a typed vector. (Off the top of my head, I believe Siphon Speed fits in this category.)


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunstormer View Post
ok but what about pve side with npcs?

Sorry I should have mentioned that was pve not pvp all i know is numina was hitting me a lot on my SR without purples even with elude up
In general NPC abilities that are based on player abilities use the same tags. Numina has quite a few abilities taken from mind control so I suspect her attacks do not have a positional tag.

Conversely Mother Mayhem's minions in the Praetorian arcs have psychic attacks taken from Psi Blast and based on testing with my scrapper those do seem to have positional tags.


 

Posted

In general, -dmg debuffs tend to be of higher magnitude than +res buffs. This is because +res can be kept up all the time and effects all foes attacking you, while -dmg effects only the foe hit by it. Combined with the requirement to maintain a debuff, given that it can be knocked off by killing an anchor, or may have a recharge time before being used again, this probably balances out the difference.

In short, I would say +res tends to be more stable, while -dmg fluctuates, giving you more and less damage over time. That may not be true in PvP, that's hardly my field, but I would assume it holds true there as well. Of course, being more limited in the number of foes you need to debuff does give debuffs the advantage. (The same with AVs) As you said, though, you're talking about PvE. (I got it backwards on first read )