Can we please have a Gadgets power pool?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-06-04 24:20 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Well, while I'm not against it per se, I think it'd be unwise to spend valuable power/slots on things you can get by temp powers. I have certain temps I stack up on with certain characters (especially mission temps like the Iron Sword or Bow and Arrow set from the Croatoa arcs) but those main power choices are far too valuable to waste on 'em.
*looks at your forum handle, changes his to 'Cayman'* 
My issue with the idea of a gadgets pool is that it's a concept theme for a pool rather than a powers theme. The purpose of the power pools is to expand your character with ability types that they don't get in their primary/secondary. The powers you list (extra attacks, travel powers, stealth suit etc) are already covered by the existing pools.
A gadgets pool isn't necessarily a bad idea but it needs to provide something that is not already covered by existing pools. Personally my inclination would be a control pool since Presence is very specialized.
For example you might get:
1. Web Grenade (as the existing power but with a lower modifier on the speed debuffs)
2. Baton: Single target melee stun (as the day job power)
3. Tear Gas (or Sleep Gas): An AoE Sleep power
4. Stun Grenades: An AoE Stun (as the temp power of the same name)
Honestly, I think that we need more power pools in general. New primaries and secondaries are good too, but more pools would dramatically increase the options available to everyone, even the 6+ year vet characters. Why not have one or two 'concept pools' for each of the origins, as well as more generic pools? Dropping an extra 5 pools on the game would mean that we wouldn't suddenly be playing City of Gadgets.
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The dev's internal name of Devices is Gadgets(well, to my knowledge). Between Devices and Traps, we already have gadgets.
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Originally Posted by Cayenne
There are so many temp powers that I'd love to have permanently, and I know I'm not alone. I'd like to request a 'Gadgets' power pool.
The first two power picks could be (one choice of melee temps) and (one choice of ranged temps). The third could be (choice of travel temp power, or maybe even a gadget Teleport pack like the Sky Raiders use!), and the last could be (other stuff, like the power analyzer, the stealth suit, or whatever). I don't think this would be incredibly unbalancing, and it would be wonderful to finally be able to have a permanent Zero-G Pack or Pistol. Anyone else think this would be a fun new set? Show your support, let's see how much demand there is for something like this! |
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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So where's my utility belt power pool? What if I want to make a scrapper that uses gadgets? Devices and traps are good for blasters, defenders, and corruptors, but what about the rest of the characters? Why can't I have a scrapper that uses a melee taser device, like the Malta?|
Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
The dev's internal name of Devices is Gadgets(well, to my knowledge). Between Devices and Traps, we already have gadgets.
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Originally Posted by Tyrrano
Well, while I'm not against it per se, I think it'd be unwise to spend valuable power/slots on things you can get by temp powers. I have certain temps I stack up on with certain characters (especially mission temps like the Iron Sword or Bow and Arrow set from the Croatoa arcs) but those main power choices are far too valuable to waste on 'em.
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I'm not opposed to new power pools but there are a few things that need to keep in mind. |
Originally Posted by Cayenne
Honestly, I think that we need more power pools in general. New primaries and secondaries are good too, but more pools would dramatically increase the options available to everyone, even the 6+ year vet characters. Why not have one or two 'concept pools' for each of the origins, as well as more generic pools? Dropping an extra 5 pools on the game would mean that we wouldn't suddenly be playing City of Gadgets.
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First off a new power pool requires at least 50% of the work required for a full powerset. You've got to make animations for 4 powers (and like melee sets those animations need to be compatible with shield defense). Secondly balance wise those powers need to be considered for every powerset combo as opposed to just a limited set which creates potential balance issues. Overall I'd rather see new powersets (or epic power pools) than new power pools since those increase ability diversity between characters in a way that power pools don't.
The other issue is more subjective and that's the idea of origin based pools (even unrestricted ones). Power pools aren't supposed to be defining aspect of your character they are to allow you extra flexibility in designing your character. Pools with powers that have a generic animation and naming allow for them to be used with a lot more character concepts than ones that are origin based. So while I like the idea of more power pools, I'd rather see them used to expand power concepts rather than power themes. Of course, I'd ideally like both, make the sets generic and have more specific alternate animations (the medicine pool is an excellent example of where this would be a good idea).
As an example though consider leadership. On a natural hero they might represent inspiring leadership. On a tech hero maybe advanced targeting optics and a squad level C&C system. A magic hero might have an artifact that improves the skills of those near it. A mutant might have a minor ability that increases adrenalin production of those near him making them react faster. A science hero might... um, ok I suck at thinking up science characters, they always end up as tech characters.
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That's one of the best things about a Gadget pool. The animations are already done, and presumably the powers are balanced as well. I'd expect there to be some fine-tuning, but most of the work is already done. People are already getting these temp powers, regardless of Origin or backstory, so making them available as a permanent pool isn't changing much there.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I'm not opposed to new power pools but there are a few things that need to keep in mind.
First off a new power pool requires at least 50% of the work required for a full powerset. You've got to make animations for 4 powers (and like melee sets those animations need to be compatible with shield defense). Secondly balance wise those powers need to be considered for every powerset combo as opposed to just a limited set which creates potential balance issues. Overall I'd rather see new powersets (or epic power pools) than new power pools since those increase ability diversity between characters in a way that power pools don't. The other issue is more subjective and that's the idea of origin based pools (even unrestricted ones). Power pools aren't supposed to be defining aspect of your character they are to allow you extra flexibility in designing your character. Pools with powers that have a generic animation and naming allow for them to be used with a lot more character concepts than ones that are origin based. So while I like the idea of more power pools, I'd rather see them used to expand power concepts rather than power themes. Of course, I'd ideally like both, make the sets generic and have more specific alternate animations (the medicine pool is an excellent example of where this would be a good idea). As an example though consider leadership. On a natural hero they might represent inspiring leadership. On a tech hero maybe advanced targeting optics and a squad level C&C system. A magic hero might have an artifact that improves the skills of those near it. A mutant might have a minor ability that increases adrenalin production of those near him making them react faster. A science hero might... um, ok I suck at thinking up science characters, they always end up as tech characters. |
The new invention temp powers are the gadget power pool.
I don't understand... in a game where there are so MANY choices, why are people trying so hard to say that we shouldn't have even more?
Yes, temp powers are nice, but they're NOT part of your character. Adding a gadget-based power pool would be much less work for the devs than almost any other pool you can come up with, making the investment minimal compared to the happiness of the multitude of people that want a slottable Jet Pack or Zero-G pack instead of just getting Super Jump or Fly. I've talked to people in-game that would love a permanent bat or gun.
Instead of concentrating on the (not-really-adequate) alternatives, why not look at the benefits?
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Not really. Temp power animations are not up to the same quality as power animations. A good example is to try using one of the bow temp powers on a shield character. When animating the temp powers the devs often just grab a suitable animation for an existing power which works well enough but doesn't necessarily mean the animation will work correctly under all circumstances. Similarly temp powers are not balanced to the same degree that pool powers are. Temp powers have limited charges which means that you can't use them as often as your actual powers since once they run out you'll have to spend time (and maybe Inf) reacquiring them. Additionally temp powers can't be slotted so some of them have more powerful base stats to compensate.
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Originally Posted by Cayenne
That's one of the best things about a Gadget pool. The animations are already done, and presumably the powers are balanced as well. I'd expect there to be some fine-tuning, but most of the work is already done. People are already getting these temp powers, regardless of Origin or backstory, so making them available as a permanent pool isn't changing much there.
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If you want it for thematic reasons, it seems that you should be asking less for a new power pool, and more for gadget-themed power customization.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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Arachnos Soldiers get the "Training Gadgets" powerset, and internally the game calls the Devices powerset "Gadgets"
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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It's not a case of not wanting more choices it's a case of how we feel the devs should prioritize those choices and what developments would be best for the game. As I mentioned above I feel that power pools should be as generic as possible since they have to work with a huge range of powers and concepts. I would LOVE to have power pool customization that included alternate animations with both gadget and magic themed options for appropriate powers but that doesn't mean I think implementing it would be the best use of dev resources.|
Originally Posted by Cayenne
I don't understand... in a game where there are so MANY choices, why are people trying so hard to say that we shouldn't have even more?
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Secondly the question is how does this expand the power options available to a character. The basic answer is that it doesn't. Most of the possible options you've suggested are either already available as pool powers (i.e. melee attacks, stealth powers, defense/resistance power etc.) or have almost certainly been deliberately left out of power pools by the devs for balance reasons (i.e. most types of debuff powers).
So a gadget pool wouldn't really open up any new options for characters, it would mostly serve as alternate animations for RP'ers to use. That's not necessarily a bad goal but it doesn't mean it's the best way to implement it.
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Hard to sight balance reasons on powers that anyone can get as temps. If the OP was asking for a new power... sure, cry about the balance. I mean IDC either way on this one, but it seems that all making a pool comprised out of temp powers would do is cut down on the few minutes of wasted time it takes to get the powers. I'm sure we've all played long enough to know which oro arcs to hit up (and not even finish ) to get a few temps. And we take a minute of two at WWs to buy a temp here and there. Heck, I had a consept toon that just used temps and he did really well.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
... or have almost certainly been deliberately left out of power pools by the devs for balance reasons (i.e. most types of debuff powers).
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This is a game based on the desire to play as your favorite superheroes (without directly copying them). Well if the hero I like uses a sword and a gun and they had a pool that would let me get which ever my AT didn't give me and it was a temp power in the game anyway.... why fight it. I can just as easily buy revolver temps at WWs (not expensive at all), but give me the option to pick it as a power.
Side note: I had a consept toon that just auto-completed missions. (Name was : Lazy)
Check out this!!!! http://www.youtube.com/user/LastRoninCoH/featured
In reference to Temp powers, does anyone know if they are seperate from standard recipe drops. I have noticed the amount of temp power drops are considerable, but cannot tell if the regular recipes have been impacted (aka reduced). This is my main concern, since I like the idea of temp powers, but not if it makes regular recipes harder to get.
On the idea of a Gadget Powerset, I would definitely like to see something like this available for melee characters. Whether it were to be a primary power pool, or improvement to an existing ancillary, or a whole new powerset doesnt matter. It would just be nice to see it.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Temp powers are a separate drop pool from normal recipe drops.
Its possible to get a temp power recipe and a normal recipe off the smae opponent. So the only way that temp powers can reduce your recipe acquisition is by filling up your recipe tray too quickly on a fast moving team.
A gadget power pool would open up some odd slotting options that temp powers dont give. eg there is currently no ranged attack in power pools. A power pool sleep would be a very nice purple set mule.
Personally, I quite like the way temp powers make me play. I reguarly use the two grenades on my Stalker, for example, but its never going to become a per-spawn tactic. Sometimes I run out mid-mission. Sometimes I have to run off and restock between missions.
This really works for a character who's concept is "martial arts with a side of gadgets". If I wanted a character who's core ability is gadgets, I can make an AR/Traps Corrupter or something similar.
Mr. Miracle, for example, carries grenades and smoke bombs but doesn't use them every time he fights. Come to think of it, so does Batman.
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Thanks Dr.Mike, |
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
Temp powers are a separate drop pool from normal recipe drops.
Its possible to get a temp power recipe and a normal recipe off the smae opponent. So the only way that temp powers can reduce your recipe acquisition is by filling up your recipe tray too quickly on a fast moving team. |
for clarifying this for me. I suspected as much. probably even read it in the patch notes, but old age is making me lose one marble each time a new one is inserted.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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Not really, there is a huge difference between temp powers and permanent powers. The big one is how often you can use them. Permanent powers you can use whenever the power is recharged temp powers do incur a cost in time and/or inf to acquire. Even if you only consider the recipe ones the majority won't last a single mission so even if you always make new ones when you run out you still either don't get them for entire missions unless you spend a lot of time running between the mission and a lab bench. Additionally temp powers can't be enhanced so they can afford to be slightly more powerful than regular powers.
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Originally Posted by LAST_RONIN
Hard to sight balance reasons on powers that anyone can get as temps.
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There are so many temp powers that I'd love to have permanently, and I know I'm not alone. I'd like to request a 'Gadgets' power pool.
The first two power picks could be (one choice of melee temps) and (one choice of ranged temps). The third could be (choice of travel temp power, or maybe even a gadget Teleport pack like the Sky Raiders use!), and the last could be (other stuff, like the power analyzer, the stealth suit, or whatever). I don't think this would be incredibly unbalancing, and it would be wonderful to finally be able to have a permanent Zero-G Pack or Pistol.
Anyone else think this would be a fun new set? Show your support, let's see how much demand there is for something like this!