Fire/kin or Fire/Rad
In my opinion, a Fire/Kin is not a great choice as a first controller. It is a build that specializes in fast AoE damage for lower level foes, mostly used for farming certain types of missions. Fire/Kins tend to die a lot -- either the foe is dead fast, or you are. A Fire/Kin is generally not very strong against Bosses. A Fire/Kin gets its best powers late in the build, and doesn't really hit its peak until after level 40. So if it is your first controller, you may get frustrated as you level up.
Fire/Rad is better for a first-time controller, but not that much better. Fire/Rad is safer, but doesn't kill as fast. Fire/Rad is better against Bosses. However, the fire control set is somewhat weak on control until it is fully slotted up, so a Fire/Rad doesn't really hit its stride until about level 35 or so.
For a First controller, I suggest an Illusion/Radiation. See my guide for detailed suggestions on builds and strategy. Ill/rad is easy to play moderately well, but advanced strategies can be used to make it one of the strongest builds in the game. Ill/Rad gets good powers early, then more good powers in the middle, and then more in the later levels. Ill/Rad is great solo and on teams.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Thematically, illusions/anything would be stupid for my character.
fire/kin is fine, and it's not like this is my first toon, I'm not a new player...I just don't specialize in builds. so far, fire/kin is fine for me right now.
plays alot like a lock-down version of my fire/mm blaster.
Magisterum- 50+3 Fortunata--Virtue
Lukerion- 33 Emp/Rad Defender--Virtue
Noah Heartily- 34 SS/SD brute- Virtue
Mika Heartily- 50+1 Fire/MM blaster-Virtue
Thematically, illusions/anything would be stupid for my character.
fire/kin is fine, and it's not like this is my first toon, I'm not a new player...I just don't specialize in builds. so far, fire/kin is fine for me right now. plays alot like a lock-down version of my fire/mm blaster. |
Can't check the build atm but Fire/Kin is a solid all around controller. It mixes enough control with some amazing AoE and decent ST damage. I've always heard that the set isn't great at low levels or its not all that survivable. Neither has really been the case in my experience, your biggest problem for the first 35 levels is actually end use. Fire/Kin pumps up your recharge at an early levels, between that and the end hog that is hotfeet you have to watch your slotting.
From the early levels with Siphon Speed, Siphon Power, Cages, and Hotfeet fire control can pump out some nice damage. With a massive heal that is transfusion being easily spammable. Pre-32 your best bet is larger spawns of weaker enemies. Flashfire,Cages as much as your end can stand, melt with siphon powered hotfeet.
For smaller spawns Its been my experience that between hasten and siphon speed, transfusion can really keep you alive if you slot it up early with acc/heal/rech. Lock stuff down with cages and char.
For ST damage Ring of Fire and Char are pretty nice as is, if you really want to round it out take seismic smash when you get to epics. Imps also help a good deal with bosses when they are the last thing standing and can make quick work of them once you make it to 32.
At 35 you get rid of your end troubles with transference, and at 38 you and your imps start running around at the damage cap. The big trick along the way for the build is finding out what you can survive, for how long and how quick you can melt stuff with hotfeet at any given level. (Solo and all)
As far teaming goes, take speed boost, give it to everyone and keep chugging along. Smart players will be near you for the siphon power/FS buffs, and know they need to be near a target for you to heal them or restore their end.
Sorry for the tone of my post . . . most people who roll up a Fire/Kin as their first controller have no idea what they are doing. They roll up a Fire/Kin because "i herd thay was gud." I try to steer them to something else because they need to learn how to do something other than farming to really enjoy this game. And Ill/Rad happens to be my favorite and it really is the best all-purpose controller. But if you are going by concept, then concept is always the most important.
I looked at your build. You have an (mostly) inexpensive softcapped-to-smash/lethal build. It is not bad as a solo, farming-type build. You give up some beneficial slotting for set bonuses, as I would prefer a second accuracy in powers like Siphon Power and Siphon Speed. You have also skipped Speed Boost and ID, which are very good for teaming but mostly skippable for solo play. (There have been recent arguments on the boards about whether to kick a Kinetics player off the team if he/she does not have speed boost.)
So, if your goal was to build a cheap, solo, farming build, it is pretty good.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
However, /Kin relies on having enemies available for it's heals and most of its buffs (Targeted AoE). And exact positioning of enemies AND allies can be uncertain at time if you're trying to achieve maximum effect.
Kin's buffs also tend to be more or less one-trick ponies (SB increases movement speed and speeds recovery, Transfusion heals, Transference restores End, and Fulcrum Shift boosts damage.)
/Rad's heal and it's main buff (AM) are PBAoE and auto-hit. As such, it's really easy to group-hug and buff. And if an ally needs healing, they just have to get close enough to you to benefit.
Rad's buffs are a bit more multi-faceted. AM, the biggie (which also comes a LOT earlier than Fulcrum Shift) boosts recovery, buffs damage, enhances resistance, provides status protection, enhances recharge, and boosts movement speed). No, it doesn't boost recovery as well as Speed Boost (which comes later). No, it doesn't provide the resistances and status protections of Increase Density (which comes later), and no it doesn't provide the damage boost that FS does (which is the Tier 9 power and comes very late indeed). But AM comes MUCH earlier, can be slotted out faster, and provides much more utility over the course of a toon's traverse from level 1 to level 50.
and....Are there any good builds for them? I've never rolled a troller and I'm not sure what IO sets I should end up saving up for. |
I'm not really sure what "frankenslotting" is or how to do it, either. |
Frankenslotting is using multi-aspect IOs to boost the primary statistics of a power (accuracy, damage, endred, recharge, hold, stun, etc) while sacrificing the bonuses that are provided by sets.
Remember, a two-aspect IO (say Acc/Damage) provides more boost to acc and damage than a common IO of identical level divided by two.
And a three-aspect IO (say Acc/Damage/Recharge) provides more boost to Acc, damage, and recharge than a common IO of identical level divided by three.
A four-aspect IO (Acc/Dam/End/Rech) provides more boost to each of it's constituent attributes than a common IO of identical level divided by four.
L50 Common IO:
Accuracy: 42.4%
Damage: 42.4%
Endurance Reduction: 42.4%
Recharge: 42.4%
L50 Multi-Aspect IO (In this case Obliteration)
Acc/Rech: 26.5%/26.5%
Acc/Dam/Rech: 21.2%/21.2%/21.2%
Acc/Dam/End/Rech: 18.55%/18.55%/18.55%/18.55%
As the bonuses are smaller, it's easier to stack them up and avoid diminishing returns put in place by ED.
With common IOs, you can get two stats to 99% improvement at the expense of everything else or three stats to roughly 83%.
Depending on what type of enhancers are available, a frankenslotted power could be boosted to 95-98% improvement in 2-3 stats with modest to significant improvements in 1-2 other stats.
In a PBAoE power for instance, utilizing non-purple recipes (with two of them being sub level 50, I can gain an improvement of:
Acc: 90.5%
Dam: 97.22%
End: 75.5%
Rech: 90.5%
Granted, in most cases we're talking a 7% difference over a power six-slotted with three types of common IOs. HOWEVER, do not underestimate the difference when stacked among multiple powers AND the fact that you're gaining a fourth stat's boost by 75% (endurance in this case) as a byproduct.
Based on just this power against someone common-slotted. You'll do marginally more damage in a set amount of time than will someone common-slotted. What's more, because you're not eating End as fast, you'll also last longer than they will before running out of End.
Is this build below sufficient? I wish I didn't have to take stone armor(I hate the skills that cover you in stuff.) |
And yes, you could sub out flight powers for leaping. Especially if you decide not to go stone armor.
Fire/Rad is better for a first-time controller, but not that much better. Fire/Rad is safer, but doesn't kill as fast.
|
Have fun! Fire/Kin turns most people off. I hope you have the willpower and the stamina. I would team a lot it will make things easier.
|
You don't HAVE to. There are a couple Fire/Kin/Fire builds out there that have higher damage output (so you kill stuff faster) to make up for the additional squishy-ness. But end management on them is a bigger deal as you don't have the duability to run into combat to get the benefit of your own buffs sometimes.
|
Will it be slower than /Stone? Probably. Do I care? Not at all. It's worth it to me to have /Fire for theme, and toon look. It's more FUN for me (not a min/maxer? BLASPHEMY!) If you think your toon looks like crap (literally), that takes the fun out of it now doesn't it? As always, YMMV
-MT
Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."
Kin's buffs also tend to be more or less one-trick ponies (SB increases movement speed and speeds recovery, Transfusion heals, Transference restores End, and Fulcrum Shift boosts damage.)
|
Even the heal, transfusion, has multi uses... heal, foe -50% regen, foe minus 10% end.
I feel that people overlook these secondary effects far too much and are blinded by the main parts of them. Yes the secondaries may not be as strong as some debuffs in other sets but when you look at the picture overall they all add up to make the set as powerful as it is, that's not gained solely by the damage boost that people associate with /kin.
Not really, and no more or less than powers from other sets. You say they are one trick pony buffs and yet each thing you mention does two or more things.
|
Consequently, the actual enhancements provided by said buffs are generally greater than those provided in /rad, which I see as a fair tradeoff.
I feel that people overlook these secondary effects far too much and are blinded by the main parts of them. Yes the secondaries may not be as strong as some debuffs in other sets but when you look at the picture overall they all add up to make the set as powerful as it is, that's not gained solely by the damage boost that people associate with /kin. |
Even the heal, transfusion, has multi uses... heal, foe -50% regen, foe minus 10% end.
|
Plus, even if you don't want to be a "buff bot" (different discussion altogether), Speed Boost is definitely one of the better (if not, best) ST buffs in the game. How is that one trick? It's multiple-tricks-in-one ... yeah
-MT
Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
As a fire/rad, I can solo +2 x8 on my Warrior Farm. It's not as fast as a fire/kin, but it is very possible with the right build. I also have a very easy time getting on TFs and AV teams because of my debuffs. I have found that fire/rad is a good mix and a very versatile toon. Plus "superteams" are fun!
I think I 'm gonna roll him as a Fire/rad after all, I was playing with one today and like the buffs/debuffs a little better for my theme, plus it's easier to get the color I want on rad.
I was wondering if someone could help me convert the build I made into a fire/rad build?I think the fire part I had pretty decent, but I'm not sure about the /rad part of it.
Magisterum- 50+3 Fortunata--Virtue
Lukerion- 33 Emp/Rad Defender--Virtue
Noah Heartily- 34 SS/SD brute- Virtue
Mika Heartily- 50+1 Fire/MM blaster-Virtue
Someone posted that fire/kin's aren't very survivable. They obviously haven't seen a very solid build. While this may be true of early levels that just isn't the case for the later levels. The build below is the one I currently run on my level 50 fire/kin. This build isn't meant for lockdown control and loses speed boost which some like. I teamed with alot of people that loved SB for the end gain but didn't want it used because of the speed portion so I deleted it from my build. It is a spendy build but it is meant for mowing down the enemies as fast as can. I can act like a tank and just wade into the groups without dying.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Pyro Kineticor: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Ring of Fire
- (A) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize
- (3) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
- (3) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Endurance
- (5) Enfeebled Operation - Endurance/Immobilize
- (A) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (9) Touch of the Nictus - Heal/HitPoints/Regeneration/Recharge
- (37) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Heal/HitPoints/Regeneration
- (39) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing
- (A) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize
- (5) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
- (7) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Endurance
- (7) Enfeebled Operation - Endurance/Immobilize
- (A) Accuracy IO
- (11) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (9) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (11) Karma - Knockback Protection
- (A) Celerity - +Stealth
- (13) Celerity - Endurance
- (A) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
- (13) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (15) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
- (15) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (17) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (17) Multi Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (A) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun
- (19) Absolute Amazement - Stun
- (19) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge
- (21) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
- (21) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (23) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (23) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (25) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (34) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (37) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (37) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Reactive Armor - Endurance
- (29) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (31) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (31) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (25) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (29) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (A) Jumping IO
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (27) Miracle - +Recovery
- (27) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration
- (A) Endurance Modification IO
- (40) Endurance Modification IO
- (40) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (31) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (40) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (43) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Call to Arms - Defense Bonus Aura for Pets
- (33) Edict of the Master - Defense Bonus
- (33) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Endurance
- (33) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Recharge
- (34) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (34) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Recharge
- (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
- (36) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
- (36) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
- (36) Performance Shifter - Accuracy/Recharge
- (A) Accuracy IO
- (39) Recharge Reduction IO
- (39) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance
- (42) Ragnarok - Damage
- (42) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge
- (42) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (43) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge
- (A) Reactive Armor - Endurance
- (45) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (45) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (45) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (46) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (46) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
- (A) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance
- (48) Apocalypse - Damage
- (48) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge
- (48) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (50) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge
- (A) Accuracy IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (43) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (46) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (50) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 6: Ninja Run
Here is a fire/rad build i run as well... again it is a level 50 setup so keep that in mind as your are leveling you may want certain power earlier in the game at lower levels. You can always respec into this build later in your heroes life.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Neutrina Pyrotica: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Ring of Fire
- (A) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize
- (5) Enfeebled Operation - Endurance/Immobilize
- (7) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Endurance
- (7) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
- (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
- (31) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
- (43) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (46) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize
- (9) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
- (9) Enfeebled Operation - Endurance/Immobilize
- (11) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Endurance
- (A) Endurance Modification IO
- (11) Recharge Reduction IO
- (40) Recharge Reduction IO
- (43) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (13) Karma - Knockback Protection
- (A) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
- (13) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (15) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
- (15) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (17) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (17) Multi Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (19) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun
- (19) Absolute Amazement - Stun
- (21) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge
- (21) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
- (23) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge
- (A) Celerity - +Stealth
- (23) Celerity - Endurance
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (25) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (25) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (27) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Reactive Armor - Endurance
- (27) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (29) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (29) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (33) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure
- (A) Jumping IO
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (33) Miracle - +Recovery
- (34) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration
- (A) Endurance Modification IO
- (34) Endurance Modification IO
- (34) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (A) Neuronic Shutdown - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
- (37) Ghost Widow's Embrace - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
- (40) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (40) Endurance Reduction IO
- (46) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure
- (31) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (33) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Call to Arms - Defense Bonus Aura for Pets
- (36) Edict of the Master - Defense Bonus
- (36) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Endurance
- (36) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Recharge
- (37) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (37) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Recharge
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (39) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (39) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (39) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance
- (42) Ragnarok - Damage
- (42) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge
- (42) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (43) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge
- (A) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance
- (45) Apocalypse - Damage
- (45) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge
- (45) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (46) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge
- (A) Reactive Armor - Endurance
- (48) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (48) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (48) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (50) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
- (50) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (A) Accuracy IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (5) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Jumping IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 6: Ninja Run
Ok, so I've decided to go Fire/Rad after reading through all the things and decided rad actually fits my theme a bit better, playstyle wise.
Just a few questions below-
Would it be possible for someone to help me convert the below build into Fire/Rad? I like the fire part but I'm having trouble with the /rad.
I'm also wondering if it can still be viable without the stone armor, if it's wiser to keep the stone armor?(I hate the way it looks)
and if it would be viable to exchange superjump/combat jumping for hover/fly that'd be cool too...
I'm also at quite a loss for the power pool selections, I'm not sure if I made wise ones.
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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Magisterum- 50+3 Fortunata--Virtue
Lukerion- 33 Emp/Rad Defender--Virtue
Noah Heartily- 34 SS/SD brute- Virtue
Mika Heartily- 50+1 Fire/MM blaster-Virtue