KIN/ELEC: help with mid-level, stamina-less, thunderous blasting, minimal toggle build?
By
Altoholic_Monkey,
Posted on: 2010-05-30 16:04 in Defenders
You might be able to adapt this. this is my Kin/DP build, although you really don't need a travel power till you get to 50 (for FBZ), and with so many temp jet packs you don't really need that.
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Nissha 2: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Kinetics
Secondary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Siphon Power -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Pistols -- Entrpc-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Entrpc-Acc/Dmg(3), Entrpc-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Entrpc-Dmg/Rchg(31), Entrpc-Heal%(37)
Level 2: Dual Wield -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Dev'n-Hold%(34)
Level 4: Transfusion -- Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(5), Nictus-Acc/Heal(9), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(15), Nictus-Heal(34)
Level 6: Siphon Speed -- TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(A), TmpRdns-Acc/Slow(7)
Level 8: Empty Clips -- ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(9), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(13), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(15), Achilles-DefDeb(25), Achilles-ResDeb%(40)
Level 10: Swap Ammo
Level 12: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31)
Level 14: Speed Boost -- EndMod-I(A), Run-I(37)
Level 16: Bullet Rain -- KinCrsh-Acc/Dmg/KB(A), KinCrsh-Dmg/EndRdx/KB(17), KinCrsh-Acc/KB(17), KinCrsh-Dmg/KB(19)
Level 18: Inertial Reduction -- Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng(A), Winter-ResSlow(19)
Level 20: Suppressive Fire -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(33), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(33), BasGaze-Slow%(46)
Level 22: Increase Density -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ImpArm-ResDam(23), ImpArm-ResPsi(25), Aegis-ResDam(45), Aegis-Psi/Status(46), ImpSkn-Status(50)
Level 24: Assault -- HO:Cyto(A)
Level 26: Transference -- P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(27), P'Shift-EndMod(27), P'Shift-End%(29), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(43), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 28: Executioner's Shot -- ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(A), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(29), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(34), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(43), Achilles-DefDeb(45), Achilles-ResDeb%(46)
Level 30: Vengeance -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Run+(31)
Level 32: Fulcrum Shift -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(33)
Level 35: Piercing Rounds -- Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg(36), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(36), Posi-Dam%(37)
Level 38: Hail of Bullets -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-%Dam(40)
Level 41: Dark Consumption -- P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(42), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(42), P'Shift-End%(42)
Level 44: Soul Transfer -- Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(A), Stpfy-KB%(45)
Level 47: Soul Drain -- GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(A), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(48), GSFC-ToHit(48), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(48), GSFC-Build%(50)
Level 49: Stealth -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Ninja Run
Level 10: Chemical Ammunition
Level 10: Cryo Ammunition
Level 10: Incendiary Ammunition
I'm by far not as guru, but I might be able to help a little. Invention sets put in some of your powers might help the drain on your endurance especially after thunderous blast. I have an electric blaster and use a combo of thunderous blast, blue inspiration, short circuit. I put in a performance shifter + end to Short Circuit to try and get endurance from the enemies not wiped out by Thunderous Blast.
As far as the good power pools that don't have toggles. Medicine and Teleport might be the best bets for what you're trying.
To me I tend to use my nuke more spareingly so the toggles aren't quite as bother some to turn on again.
I'd keep combat jumping just for the immob protection. If you don't plan on investing in IOs then you could get acro as well, even though you do have hover.
Scottie the perf +end in short circuit will end up giving mobs end back. It only works on the target of the proc, in this case the enemy. Put it in stamina instead.
below is an example of what you could do by level 50 if you wish to maintain a minimal toggle build.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.704
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Level 48 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Kinetics
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Transfusion -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Charged Bolts -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Lightning Bolt -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Siphon Power -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Siphon Speed -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Ball Lightning -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Short Circuit -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Speed Boost -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Hover -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Increase Density -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Inertial Reduction -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Aim -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Transference -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Tesla Cage -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Super Jump -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Fulcrum Shift -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Acrobatics -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Thunderous Blast -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Power Build Up -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Force of Nature -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Total Focus -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Grant Invisibility -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 6: Ninja Run
Code:
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The original poster has addressed the main dilemnas that face a mid level kinetic:
Accuracy concerns
Stealth?
Leadership?
Stamina?
Nuking?
Patron pools
Accuracy is a concern I try to cover with secondary blast set that includes an Aim power. My earth/kin relies on the earth defense debuff to increase his kinetic powers' accuracy. For defenders without Aim, then I try to work in Tactics.
On my kinetics, I treat them as 'push' more than pull, so I don't usually take recall friend. I do like the speed boost - grant invisibility combo to get teleporting teammates in position to stealth missions where time concerns require fighting the end boss/objective only. Some of my kinetics, esp controllers take superspeed and stealth makes that a total invisibility combo.
Getting tactics on a kinetic is pretty sweet. Having transference slotted up 2 Acc, 2 End Mod, 2 Recharge usually does the trick. Getting in a transference cycle is usually smooth sailing keeping endurance.
I try to respec out of stamina on my kinetic defenders, but this is less practical with controllers and the supersidekick to less than 33.
I am a fan of nuking and having transference makes nuking very appealing especially after a nice fulcrum shift.
The psy patron set is hard to pass up on defenders. Mass hypnosis sets up fulcrum shift nicely since FS doesn't break sleep. Big groups fall fast. The Mind over Body is nice, too for the psy protection of your kinetic.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Thank you all for the great advice! I had a feeling like I wasn't reinventing the wheel. I've read many guides, but nothing quite addressed my dilemma.
I hadn't really considered many IOs simply because I never seem to have the kind of money they require. However, I bet I can raise enough to get a couple specials like the +End; I take it goes into Transference.
I've been making great use of Aim, popping it before Siphon Speed and Transference, and reliably hitting purples. I recently put two Accuracy in those powers--which I'm suspecting may be too much while regularly casting Aim.
The Grant Invisibility trick sounds nice. I hadn't thought of that combo and at least a few SG members have Teleport. And I'm not sure that I would pick up Superspeed and Stealth just for Invisibility--or is that amazing on a Kin/Elec? I have Superspeed and Steamy Mist on a Troller and it's okay...again, I have trouble with overshooting my target and appreciate the fine control of Hover.
It'd be interesting to have Hover and Combat Jumping. That's, what? Another +3% Def with a single Def SO. Which makes it tempting to take Maneuvers...yet another toggle. I'm still unsure whether going minimal toggles is worth Thunderous Blast. I just thought I could use that as my big damage source, plunking my piddling DOT AOEs on the survivors.
Ooooh, Psy APP? Didn't even consider it at first. I was gonna go Elec for Thunderstrike, Powersink (overkill?) and Shocking Bolt (to stack on Tesla Cage). So, Mass Hypnosis > Fulcrum Shift > Aim > Thunderous Blast > CAB > Transfusion > Short Circuit > Ball Lightning. (You see, I assume mobs will still be alive at this point because of my low damage.)
Is World of Confusion useful for Defenders? I hadn't considered much Defense or Resistance, usually I can wait long enough for the tank to grab aggro before I move in. Waiting that extra couple seconds has saved my bacon long before any late level armor. But is minion-only WoC enough mitigation to be worth it?
I think I'll be sticking with one toggle and five clicks of :
Speed: Hasten
Flight: Hover
Medicine: Stimulant, Aid Self, and Resuscitate (too redundant with Transfusion and Increased Density?)
Teleport: Recall Friend
Or if I was feeling super toggle-tastic:
Leadership: Maneuvers, Tactics, and Vengeance
Leaping: Combat Jumping, Super Jump (and drop Inertial Reduction), and Acrobatics
And as for APP, I think I'll first try Psy: Mass Hypnosis and Dominate.
Thanks for all the comments!
The medicine pool is extremely redundant on a kin. Your heal and status protection are both superior to what the medicine pool has to offer. Resuscitate is handy, but doesn't work in battle and can be replicated with temps and/or day job powers. Definitely not worth two very questionable power picks.
I can't make a kin without Leadership. Grab tactics, maneuvers, and vengeance! Pretend vengeance is your rez. When someone dies, hit veng, and you are sure that nobody else will die. Most of my kins these days run staminaless while running leadership toggles. It's not much of a hassle at all. Transference really is that good.
There's nothing really wrong with taking the leaping pool, but IR alone gives you not only the full ability of SJ, but the in-combat maneuverability of CJ. Acrobatics is still a cheap sub for a -kb IO, but you should have no problem dropping 10-15 million on one of these by the time you would normally pick up Acro. I personally use a steadfast -kb and pop it in ID.
I'm glad I checked this before I logged in game.
Yeah, I had a sneaky suspicion that Leadership was going to be where it was at. (I had a fleeting thought that Stimulant + ID would make a killer invincible squishy combo, but they're both so fleeting that it would get tedious to keep up.) I'm not so concerned about my End use, so much as the hassle of turning on toggles every minute or so (however often Thunderous Blast recharges).
Hmmmm....Let me rethink my build.
Thanks!
Okay, here's the build with Leadership. We'll see how it goes until I hit TB!
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.703
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 31 Technology Defender
Primary Power Set: Kinetics
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Blast
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Transfusion -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Heal(3), Heal(13), Heal(21)
Level 1: Charged Bolts -- Acc(A)
Level 2: Siphon Power -- Acc(A)
Level 4: Ball Lightning -- Acc(A), Acc(5), Dmg(5), Dmg(13), Dmg(19)
Level 6: Siphon Speed -- Acc(A), RechRdx(7), RechRdx(7), RechRdx(15)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(9), RechRdx(9)
Level 10: Short Circuit -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(11), EndMod(11), EndMod(15), EndMod(19)
Level 12: Speed Boost -- EndMod(A)
Level 14: Hover -- DefBuff(A)
Level 16: Aim -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(17), RechRdx(17)
Level 18: Inertial Reduction -- Jump(A)
Level 20: Maneuvers -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(21)
Level 22: Tactics -- ToHit(A), ToHit(23), ToHit(23)
Level 24: Vengeance -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(25), DefBuff(25)
Level 26: Transference -- EndMod(A), EndMod(27), EndMod(27)
Level 28: Tesla Cage -- Acc(A), Acc(29), Hold(29)
Level 30: Increase Density -- ResDam(A)
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 6: Ninja Run
My Kinetics/Elec respec'ed out of Stamina in the early 40's and rarely has problems. The key to his ability to drain Endurance as an AoE is Power Build Up fired off before Thunderous Blast or Short Circuit. Unfortunately, that means that End Drain isn't an "every group" option.
Unlike most of the builds above, I like Voltaic Sentinel. If you are operating without Stamina, it is one of the most endurance efficient attacks you can have. Cast it before going into battle (when you don't have any endurance issues), and for the cost of about 3 Charged Bolts, you get 10 that fire off while you are busy doing something else. Little Sparky will often finish off foes for me without me having to do anything. I also have Lightning Bolt, charged Bolts and Ball Lightning. Generally, Elec is so low on damage that you need every bit you can get. I even added Zapp at 49 to get a little more damage.
I have the Leadership toggles and have little problem running them.
I'm particularly fond of my character concept. My Kin/Elec is an Egyptian-themed character who drains life energy from his foes to store it as electrical energy within himself. His name is "Sultan Battery." (say it out loud).
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I think the last build posted is pretty solid, and close to what I'd probably have in a kin/elec if I went without IO's. That said, you'll get a lot more mileage out of your slots if you frankenslot, of course.
Transference is the only power I see with significant enhancement problems. You definitely want to slot acc, then recharge, then endmod in order of importance. The base end suckage is quite substantial, and you'll really need that sucker to hit if you're relying on it. With frankenslotting you can get all the enhancement you'll need in 4 slots total.
As much as I applaud the early slotting and use of vengeance, I would probably prioritize either adding some more recharge and/or damage to your two aoes first, or giving your ST attacks a little love. Veng is still a very effective tool with one slot. That said, I would eventually plop those extra slots in it.
If you are going without Stamina and want some toggles, you'll need to be adding in end reduc slotting. Transference isn't going to be saving you enough to counter that. All the more so if you grab Hasten and a Kin/elec really benefits from having Hasten.
Well, after reading the kin/elec guides out there early on, I had but all given up on solo play simply because of the anemic damage. That's why everything (with the exception of Ball Lighting) is all slated towards buffs and end drain. I figured my damage would come from Thunderous Blast, relying heavily on my SG to get me there. I even neglected my single target attacks (since Sands of Mu and the Nemesis Staff were good enough) and I knew the slots were better used elsewhere. And with one Siphon Speed and Hasten, Short Circuit recharges in 7 seconds and Ball Lighting in 8.5--and it seems to fit nicely in my buffing cycle.
I didn't slot Transference with Acc because Aim comes up often enough for me to usually activate it beforehand, and I very rarely miss. But if I find myself whiffing, I'd probably move the slots from Tesla Cage into Transference. And if my reluctant toggle powers get the best of me, I will add some EndRedux in there; though, right now Transference (with three EndMod and successful hit) return 97 End every 16 seconds.
I've got my eye on Voltaic Sentinel as well, but I have no illusions about my damage capabilities.
PS: Also playing with Mids, I delighted in the numbers while having Vengeance, Force of Nature and Power Build Up all active at once--very rarely can I manage to soft cap anything, let alone go over the cap on so many figures. And adding Conserve Power dropped most power end usage to less than 2 per click. Though, I will still probably go Psy APP for Mass Hypnosis.
Thank you, everyone who has responded! I feel like I've gotten some really great advice that I can put to good use.
People overlook adding a couple of damage enhancements into Short Circuit. If you want a extra bite of damage, FS+SC+BL is a pretty nice combination...been working for me for years.
All my Kin Defs are staminaless: Elec, Archery, Psy, DP. They also have toggles: Assault and Tactics which up the damage abilities.
My key is basically abuse of Siphon Speed to get the recharge. You want to be able to go through your attack combo as often as possible. I also find that Tesla Cage is a great power to keep your drain target in place while you fight their friends.
I'm playing my first Kinetics / Electric Blast Defender who is at level 30 currently. Below is my new build (with SOs), with a focus on End Drain because I'm usually on teams and know how to appreciate my meat shields.
I'm looking to respec out of Stamina, in order to open other powers to me--but I'm not quite sure the options are better than Hurdle, Health and Stamina. I have yet to bottom out since getting Transference, and usually spam my AOEs when I'm trying to do damage with no problems. I've got an eye on Thunderous Blast, so I'm looking for minimal toggle so I don't have to keep turning them back on when I crash.
Right now I've don't want to give up Hover (for maneuverability--still haven't quite gotten the hang of stacked Siphon Speeds), and Hasten; but I'm not interested in Fly or Superspeed. I don't think Presence powers will be very useful to me; likewise Fighting.
Stealth looks nice, but that's the only thing I'd want from that pool.
Recall Friend would be nice but it's hardly a priority.
The Medicine pool offers all clicks; Stimulant (to use on top of Increased Density), Aid Other/Self (not sure how much I'd use either), and the rez--which I lack.
Leaping offers me two toggles in Combat Jumping for small +Def which is nice, but not life changing. (I'm not sure I'd be ready for the pricey +def or other uniques for a while.) Acrobatics does look nice though.
Leadership is usually awesome for Defenders, and I could sure use Maneuvers, Tactics and the tasty Vengence, but that's ANOTHER two toggles.
So I'd like to ask the gurus out there, do you have any sage advice for me? Is minimal-toggles worth the poor power picks? Are the toggle choices totally worth the bother of turning back on EVERY time I want to use my nuke (often)?
Thanks in advanced.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.703
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 25 Science Defender
Primary Power Set: Kinetics
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Blast
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Medicine
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Siphon Power
- (A) Accuracy
Level 1: Charged Bolts- (A) Accuracy
Level 2: Transfusion- (A) Accuracy
- (3) Accuracy
- (3) Healing
- (15) Healing
- (23) Endurance Modification
- (23) Endurance Modification
Level 4: Ball Lightning- (A) Accuracy
- (5) Accuracy
- (5) Damage Increase
- (13) Damage Increase
- (19) Damage Increase
- (21) Endurance Modification
Level 6: Siphon Speed- (A) Accuracy
- (7) Accuracy
- (7) Recharge Reduction
- (15) Recharge Reduction
Level 8: Hasten- (A) Recharge Reduction
- (9) Recharge Reduction
- (9) Recharge Reduction
Level 10: Short Circuit- (A) Recharge Reduction
- (11) Recharge Reduction
- (11) Recharge Reduction
- (13) Endurance Modification
- (19) Endurance Modification
- (21) Endurance Modification
Level 12: Speed Boost- (A) Endurance Modification
Level 14: Increase Density- (A) Resist Damage
Level 16: Aim- (A) Recharge Reduction
- (17) Recharge Reduction
- (17) Recharge Reduction
Level 18: Inertial Reduction- (A) Jumping
Level 20: Hover- (A) Defense Buff
Level 22: Recall Friend- (A) Recharge Reduction
Level 24: Lightning Bolt- (A) Accuracy
Level 26: Transference- (A) Accuracy
- (27) Endurance Modification
- (27) Endurance Modification
- (31) Endurance Modification
- (31) Recharge Reduction
Level 28: Tesla Cage- (A) Accuracy
- (29) Hold Duration
- (29) Hold Duration
Level 30: Stimulant- (A) Interrupt Reduction
Level 32: [Empty]Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint- (A) Empty
Level 2: Rest- (A) Empty
Level 1: VigilanceLevel 6: Ninja Run