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I would have treated all the servers as separate universes anyway, because that's how I roll, but speaking as someone who has created hundreds of characters and taken them all through the tutorial, I can tell you that each server is slightly different. Sure, it's only in minor details like how many cops are standing outside the Kings Row police station or what the technician is doing in front of Lt. MacReady in the tutorial (quick, is he standing or kneeling? Ha! Sometimes he's not even there!), but there are subtle differences which underscore the notion they're separate universes.|
Originally Posted by Kyasubaru
In one of the older site updates concerning villain groups, there were "testimonials" sent in by players about the villain group, and each player's server was listed in such a way as to imply that each server is considered to be a separate but "real" dimension. I'm not sure it's exactly canon, but ever since then I've taken this to be the case. (I think the article in question might be the Warriors dossier... Or possibly the Tsoo.)
Which sort of puts the whole "Primal Earth" thing out of whack... If all servers are Primal Earth, can the implication of that name really apply? Perhaps the "real" Primal Earth is the test server, or whatever server was the very first one to be brought online. (I never liked the idea of a "first" dimension, though I guess if the theory about alternate dimensions being created from branching decisions is what's being used, then a first earth is inevitable.) Anyway, if each server is a parallel dimension, a version of Primal Earth, then each one has its own version of Praetoria, and its own Council Empire, and its own Shadow Shard. Of course that gets into a naming problem. Would you call the version of Praetoria that spawned from Virtue "Virtue Praetoria?" Certainly the Praetoria of one Primal Earth is different than the Praetoria of another. Pinnacle Praetoria wouldn't have the same heroes/villains(PCs) as Freedom Praetoria. |
Just because they all think they're Primal Earth is immaterial, really. I think the recent Dark Mirror missions accidentally emphasize that, since your doppelganger initially seems to think this is his Earth. Perhaps he counted the number of cops outside the Kings Row police station and figured out he was on a different world.
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Originally Posted by synthozoic
We could view things that way. Each server could be a very slight variation on Prime Earth, just different enough to have heroes and villains with the same name but very different backgrounds but not different enough to have the Axis win World War II or to have Kennedy survive assassination but Reagan not.
But it might just be simpler to ignore the server stuff and name-space restrictions as artificial since a multiverse with time travel, magic and superpowers is complicated enough! By the way, I don't see it mentioned anywhere, but am I correct to assume that the Prime Earth universe is named "Alpha Alpha 0-0?" And I think a distinction should be made between universes that just have contrafactual histories and universes that have different physics entirely. I mean is the realm that all these demons come from really just a parallel universe or is it something else entirely? I'd argue that it's something different. I think we should be clear about our definitions and concepts so we can carry this discussion forward. For example, I think people in this thread have misused the term "dimension." I think we should stick with the way physics and mathematics define "dimension." To call an entire realm of existence or space-time a dimension is not accurate. The space-time of our universe has four dimensions (Possibly more if we go with string theory.). If we bring in other universes with contrafactual histories--Praetorian Earth, Axis America, etc.--that requires at least a fifth, hyperspatial, dimension. But it sticks in my craw to call any of these universes or planes of existence a "dimension." |
It doesn't help that the game itself uses "universe" and "dimension" interchangeably.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Sigh. Yeah, and I can abide it. It's just that we can think more deeply about this subject if we keep our terminology clear. But muddling on--|
Originally Posted by Ironik
I blame Rod Serling for the dimension confusion. Me, I use universe, but I get why people do it. Kind of like how they confuse the lay term "theory" with the scientific term "Theory."
It doesn't help that the game itself uses "universe" and "dimension" interchangeably. |
Those screenshots are telling. The different servers are different universes, with slightly different alternate histories. On Virtue, if your hero exists at all, she had tea with breakfast instead of the coffee her doppleganger did on Union or Infinity. She flies over a different crowd on her way to work in Talos depending on what server you're on when you log in etc.
So how do we name these? Virtue = Alpha Alpha 0-1? Freedom = Alpha Alpha 0-2, Union = Alpha Alpha 0-9 etc. etc.?
"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
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They probably all think they're Alpha-Alpha 0-0. However, Guardian is the original server, the one we all played on during beta. I've always held the conceit the reason there aren't any Rikti drones in Guardian's version of Outbreak is because we kicked those freaky aliens off the planet in April of '04. Something happened then which split the "original" universe into 9 separate paths... a different decision, a hero's death, something significant that led to divergent realities.
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Originally Posted by synthozoic
Sigh. Yeah, and I can abide it. It's just that we can think more deeply about this subject if we keep our terminology clear. But muddling on--
Those screenshots are telling. The different servers are different universes, with slightly different alternate histories. On Virtue, if your hero exists at all, she had tea with breakfast instead of the coffee her doppleganger did on Union or Infinity. She flies over a different crowd on her way to work in Talos depending on what server you're on when you log in etc. So how do we name these? Virtue = Alpha Alpha 0-1? Freedom = Alpha Alpha 0-2, Union = Alpha Alpha 0-9 etc. etc.? |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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But see, that's the conceit that all the contrafactual universes (Including the servers.) will have: that they are Earth Prime. We as outside observers have to pick one--I guess Guardian as the beta test server--as Alpha Alpha 0-0 and then designate all the rest as Alpha Alpha 0-###|
Originally Posted by Ironik
They probably all think they're Alpha-Alpha 0-0. However, Guardian is the original server, the one we all played on during beta. I've always held the conceit the reason there aren't any Rikti drones in Guardian's version of Outbreak is because we kicked those freaky aliens off the planet in April of '04. Something happened then which split the "original" universe into 9 separate paths... a different decision, a hero's death, something significant that led to divergent realities.
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Right?
"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
"A master of demon binding and summoning from another dimension..."
"During Defeat Infernal:
Before combat: As I suspected, the inscriptions match. She was here, all those lost ages ago. Mother..."
"During Defeat and Capture Lilitu:
Before combat: Lilitu! Mother! I'm coming for you!"
I'd say that's pretty conclusive.