Solo-friendly mentalist: blaster or controller?
By
Ben_Arizona,
Posted on: 2010-05-17 13:34 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Certainly psi/MM is a very survivable solo blaster out of the box, MM gives good control - and the damage is respectable. Controllers and doms take a bit longer to get going, defender damge is still very meh, so if you are not sure how long you'll be playing the character, I'd go blaster.
Illusionists do psionic damage, confuse foes, cause fear, cause blindness, and bring phantasms to life. They're also mentalists, if you'd like a controller that levels at a decent pace (for a controller) and you'd rather not play mind control.
Sonic or FF are reasonable secondaries for a mentalist, and disruption field can be put onto phantom army to ramp damage up higher with a sonic than you would with force fields.
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My numbers are Blaster mods = around 1.125 range and 1.125 melee while Doms = around 1.0 range and 1.0 melee. Therefore, when a Dom uses an attack, they will not be so far behind Blasters that it makes a huge difference.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Oh ok. If you say so.
If that is the case then you won't mind sharing some numbers to educate me. What kind of st dps will a psi/mm produce on SO's, hasten, IO'd vs a mind/psi on SO's, hasten, IO'd? And what kind of aoe damage will each produce under the same settings? How 'bout both in terms of burst damage too? |
As for DPS, it's partially irrelevant. Blasters survive on DPA moreso than on DPS but that isn't to say Blaster does not have the edge in both (who ever said that?).
Seriously, it's like blabbing on and on about how oh-so superior Scrappers are to Stalkers even though their dmg mods are similarly close. Their performance is 'close' in the sense that they do different things better. That the Blaster will get better DPS is balanced vs the Dom not attributing all activities to attacking but to defending themselves with superior mitigation. That the dom has better mez protection is just icing.
Damage mods, courtesy of paragonwiki (limiting to psychics)
Blaster Ranged: 1.125
Dominator Melee: 1.05
Blaster melee: 1.0
Fortunata (Widow) melee: 1.0
Fortunata( Widow) ranged: 1.0
Dominator ranged: .950
Controller melee: .55
Controller ranged: .55
That's if all that matters is orange numbers. Other factors: Controllers get way more debuffs/buff, in theory. How a controllers play will varry wildly by your secondary. Teams make your secondaries way better, no matter what. (In net effect: buffs x more=more, more thing pounding weaker things=faster victories, etc.) The containment makes the damage higher, but requires setup. Blasters work pretty good solo, you just have to stay on your toes. More damage from defiance, but less damage when mezzed. (Being limited to tier ones can be a pain at times.) Dominators act the same way solo or on teams: stop stuff from hurting you, (and team, if necessary) kill it. Domination is wonderful to fill endurance, escape mez, mez bosses, stop knock back, and so on. Fortunatas can be deadly, but juicy on the endurance. You will also have to be a claws scrapblasterthingy until 24, when you get your fortunata promotion. The fortunata team buffs help you, but also make the team great.
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Yes but that is such an incomplete picture you may as well not have picked up the paint brush.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
My numbers are Blaster mods = around 1.125 range and 1.125 melee while Doms = around 1.0 range and 1.0 melee. Therefore, when a Dom uses an attack, they will not be so far behind Blasters that it makes a huge difference.
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It ignores so much in fact that applying your logic would dictate that brutes (0.75) do pathetic damage compared to scrappers (1.125). But that is hardly true now is it?
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| As for DPS, it's partially irrelevant. Blasters survive on DPA moreso than on DPS but that isn't to say Blaster does not have the edge in both (who ever said that?). |
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| Seriously, it's like blabbing on and on about how oh-so superior Scrappers are to Stalkers even though their dmg mods are similarly close. Their performance is 'close' in the sense that they do different things better. |
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| That the Blaster will get better DPS is balanced vs the Dom not attributing all activities to attacking but to defending themselves with superior mitigation. That the dom has better mez protection is just icing. |
I'll answer my own question then regarding damage of a psi/mm vs a mind/psi just so we can put this to bed:
psi/mm blaster does 2x more st dps than a mind/psy dom. That is with will dom, -rech, and tk blast mitigating vs tk thrust and -rech mitigating for the dom. If the dom locks them down first it is lower still.
psi/mm does 2.5x more st burst damage.
st dps and burst st damage are typical occurrences in game
The aoe dps is actually pretty close, but the psi/mm does about 2x as much aoe burst damage.
aoe burst damage is more of a typical occurrence than aoe dps in most game scenarios.
I'd go with the Blaster, or even a Defender before I'd go with a Controller for soloing. Or I'd wait for Going Rogue and start a Dominator in the mirrorverse to avoid redside.
There is no AT that is more tedious to solo, in general, than the Controller, IMO.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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No, you've just got this tendancy to "need to be right" that is obvious and painful to those that encounter you. It's not my fault that you attribute the term 'damage' to 'DPS optimum attack chain' or whatever and loose sight of 'simply clicking the power'.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Yes but that is such an incomplete picture you may as well not have picked up the paint brush.
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The last thing I want to get into is a semantics battle but I already explained the words that expressed my opinion on the matter. I don't feel I'm wrong in having the opinion that When a Blaster and a Dominator toss out an attack from one of the mental sets, that you won't see the same discrepency as what you'd see between a Scrapper vs a Tanker...and the difference between those two melees isn't what I'd call 'far' either.
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No you won't see the same discrepancy, it will be larger than between a scrap and tank.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
I don't feel I'm wrong in having the opinion that When a Blaster and a Dominator toss out an attack from one of the mental sets, that you won't see the same discrepency as what you'd see between a Scrapper vs a Tanker...and the difference between those two melees isn't what I'd call 'far' either.
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Whatever man, I was just correcting your very wrong information. I don't have a need to be right so much as I have a need to make sure really incorrect information isn't spread. Sorry you have gotten so defensive about it. The metric you use to define damage as "close" to something else is just not grounded in reality. That's ok. It just isn't damage over time, or burst damage, or actual damage, or theoretical damage. Maybe some other type that only you know about.
I get that you don't think scrappers and tanks (good job moving the goal post too as before it was scrappers and stalkers, unfortunately it isn't helping your position) deal appreciably different damage. You are very likely alone in that. Interestingly enough they only deal about 35-50% difference in actual damage. In the case of a psi/mm and mind/psi it is 100% to 150% difference.
It isn't much of a stretch to say that every toon in this game deals "close" to the same damage given your margins.
Anyway, take care. I think the OP has more than enough information to make a solid decision.
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Exaggerations are considered incorrect information too.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
I don't have a need to be right so much as I have a need to make sure really incorrect information isn't spread.
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Ad hominen much?
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
No, you've just got this tendancy to "need to be right" that is obvious and painful to those that encounter you. It's not my fault that you attribute the term 'damage' to 'DPS optimum attack chain' or whatever and loose sight of 'simply clicking the power'.
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~union4lyfe~
So to address the actual question, I find most controllers much more soloable than blasters. They don't kill as fast, but they also don't have to worry about dying the first time something goes slightly wrong. I find my mind/storm controller a lot more fun to solo with than my blasters.
Don't discount /Psi defender too quickly, especially with the blaster version of Psi being nerfed so many ways, and with the new Vigilance's soloing damage buff. The only tricky part is that the solo-friendly primaries don't match the mentalist concept too well. FF/Psi won't have a lot of damage output, but will be very well protected, with partial mez protection and easy Aid Self thanks to all the +def and -recharge. Kin/Psi will be a debt magnet until Mass Hypnosis, but will be a very satisfactory blastfender afterwards. Dark/Psi is an excellent choice but it's up to you whether your concept can bend enough to justify Dark Miasma.
If you choose to go blaster, remember that Mental Manipulation is leaps and bounds a superior set to Psychic Blast. Unlike most builds, you're better off loading up on secondaries as you level up, and only taking a couple of primaries as needed. Yes, MM is really that good. Yes, Psi is really that bad. You may even try something like Archery/MM instead, if that won't violate your concept.
Mind Controller has the same problem as defender. The good soloing secondaries aren't very mentalist. Mind/Emp has good survivability with Regeneration Aura, as long as you're preemptively mezzing stuff before it can mez you back. Mind/FF and Mind/Kin are also decent choices.