Defender and Swap Ammo


blueruckus

 

Posted

So for you defenders out there playing with dual pistols quick question, are the secondary effects of swap ammo enhanced as a defender (e.g slow, -dam)?

Do you feel it's worth it?

Planning out a defender with pistols and traps, and deciding what stays and what goes.

Thanks.


 

Posted

I'm fairly sure the slow, hold, and -dam numbers use Defender modifiers and thus are higher than corr/blasters.

I had a DP/Traps Def on test... she was fun, but slow. Though that wasn't taking into account the solo damage boost, so maybe it won't be so bad!


-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)

 

Posted

Yes, they're better on defenders. Toxic ammo is pretty useless on a blaster, but on a defender it can be great, especially if you can stack it with another source from your primary.

Blasters and Corruptors both do 15% slow, while defenders do 18.75%
Blasters do 7% damage debuffing, while corruptors do 10% and defenders do 12.5%

The strength of the debuff is the same on all powers except hail of bullets, which has a more powerful debuff. However, the duration of the debuff will vary based on the power. Here's a list of them, but keep in mind these are the corruptor numbers.

dual wield- 1.67 seconds
25% knockback
15% recharge for 8 seconds
10% damage for 6 seconds

executioner's shot- 2.57 seconds
70% knockback
15% recharge for 10 seconds
10% damage for 8 seconds

piercing rounds- 2.5 seconds
knockback replaced by -res
15% recharge for 8 seconds
10% damage for 6 seconds

empty clips- 2.5 seconds
10% chance for knockback
15% recharge for 8 seconds
10% damage for 6 seconds

bullet rain- 2.4 seconds
50% chance for knockback
15% recharge for 10 seconds
10% damage for 8 seconds

hail of bullets- 4.17 seconds
10% chance for knockback followed by guaranteed knockback (5% and 60% respectively outside of standard ammo)
20% recharge for 10 seconds
10% damage for 8 seconds


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyvern View Post
Do you feel it's worth it?
I just hit 32 with my Dark/DP. I was initially pretty skeptical about Swap Ammo, but took it at 22, and I haven't looked back. I have to agree with the previous poster who noted that DP is slow, and part of that is SA... its presence represents one fewer attack that you can take in the early levels -- levels when it's really hard to enhance your attacks to a meaningful level. BUT with the acquisition of Swap Ammo, Bullet Rain (I didn't take it until after Stamina, because of its absurd END cost), and Executioner's shot, SA has really become a life-saver, and provides real acceleration to my mob-clearing capability.

Take, for example, your average even-con Freakshow Tank who bounces your bullets AND has the annoying habit of clobbering you for half your hit points. Well, you gotta take out 100 of those guys if you want to get into the Freedom Phalanx, and it can take FOREVER to take down just one with your run-of-the-mill lethal bullets. But with SA... click over to Toxic ammo and - voila! - you're stacking damage debuffs on him to a level where you have a chance of surviving a hit AND you're blasting him with Toxic damage, which he's not going to resist as well (I don't think, anyway).

And how about that fire? As we've said, DP can be slow, but it can be quite a bit faster when you add a bit of burn... the DOT isn't dramatic, but it's noticable. PLUS, again, you have something beside lethal damage with which to confront those bullet-resistant bad guys.

Don't feel you need the non-lethal damage bonus? Well, load up some normal bullets and watch bad guys fly all over the place as you pound them with knockback.

But, the going is slow at early levels. If I didn't have the Sands of Mu veteran power, I might still be 12th level. If you take DP, I'd suggest crafting some of the new temp powers -- hand grenades are cool, as is the plasmatic taser and backup radio. These things can provide you some punch while your DP develops into one of the most flexible attack sets out there.


 

Posted

I never found DP slow and I took Swap Ammo at 10. Then again, I'm a kin, so I get a nice speed boost.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
I never found DP slow and I took Swap Ammo at 10. Then again, I'm a kin, so I get a nice speed boost.
They're specifically talking about animation time.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warkupo View Post
They're specifically talking about animation time.
I'm pretty sure they were talking about recharge time/damage dealt.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
I'm pretty sure they were talking about recharge time/damage dealt.
I was talking about time to level.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
I'm pretty sure they were talking about recharge time/damage dealt.
Considering that has never been the problem with DP, and there's a discussion about animation times and debuff duration with a giant chart expressing animation time and their effect duration, I'm entirely sure you are wrong.


 

Posted

I have a lowbie traps/pistols defender (only 18 so far), and I'm planning on getting swap ammo at 30. The first three attacks out of DP are all I have at the moment, I've slotted them up well, and they work out OK because of good recharge. That's allowed me to take and slot up primary powers quite early, making my defender more survivable and a better contributor on teams.

Thus, primary powers taken at 18 include (with slotting all being level 20 DOs at the moment) ...

caltrops (1 recharge)
acid mortar (1 acc, 2 recharge)
FFG (3 defense)
poison trap (2 recharge)
seeker drones (1 acc, just taken)

I'll want swap ammo eventually because toxic ammo will stack nicely with seeker drones to floor mob damage done, and also for fire ammo to increase kill speed against heavily lethal resistant foes. I don't want to take swamp ammo early, though; traps has so many nifty powers that can be taken early instead, and which require relatively few slots to make a noticeable difference in-game, while solo or teamed.

You'll end up in a good place in a lot of different ways, though, and if swap ammo early looks good to you, by all means go for it.


 

Posted

Something else that hasn't been mentioned:

Supressive Fire changes from a mag 3 stun to a mag 3 HOLD if you are using any of the special ammo. This can actually be pretty useful if you've got other holds at your disposal.


Currently on Virtue:
Jinrazuo - Crab Spider

RWZ All-Pylon Solo Run

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueruckus View Post
Something else that hasn't been mentioned:

Supressive Fire changes from a mag 3 stun to a mag 3 HOLD if you are using any of the special ammo. This can actually be pretty useful if you've got other holds at your disposal.
Even if it's the only hold. You can slot Devastation: Chance for Hold and Lockdown: Chance for +2 Mag Hold in Suppressive Fire. Both have a chance to fire even with Standard ammo.


The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garent View Post
Yes, they're better on defenders. Toxic ammo is pretty useless on a blaster, but on a defender it can be great, especially if you can stack it with another source from your primary.

Blasters and Corruptors both do 15% slow, while defenders do 18.75%
Blasters do 7% damage debuffing, while corruptors do 10% and defenders do 12.5%

The strength of the debuff is the same on all powers except hail of bullets, which has a more powerful debuff. However, the duration of the debuff will vary based on the power. Here's a list of them, but keep in mind these are the corruptor numbers.
Umm where are you getting these numbers from? I looked at the powers while playing and they do not give any numbers, nor is there a difference in the powers description or info when I have a ammo selected?

Also, do the debuffs/slow's stack from the same caster (ie. do I get more slow if I use Pistols then Dual Wield quickly enough) and do they stack with someone else's Pistols or Dual wield?


 

Posted

The corruptor numbers I got from in game, while the other numbers I got from mids. As far as I know, mids is accurate on all of the archetypes.

The debuffs will always stack, regardless of who used them or which power was used. Keep in mind that pistols doesn't get a slow debuff with cold ammo or a damage debuff with toxic ammo though.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garent View Post
The corruptor numbers I got from in game, while the other numbers I got from mids. As far as I know, mids is accurate on all of the archetypes.

The debuffs will always stack, regardless of who used them or which power was used. Keep in mind that pistols doesn't get a slow debuff with cold ammo or a damage debuff with toxic ammo though.
And how did you go about doing that? (checking the numbers that is) I've checked all the descriptions and don't see a thing. Does it not show for fenders?