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I have Summon Demons slotted with 6 Blood Mandates (I really want that juicy +defense bonus for myself). At my current level of enhancers this gives me 58% end reduction. My Ember will often get to half end and occasionally drops to one quarter with a rare few times of going lower. There must be a mitigation difference between our secondaries or how we are using them. I assume my Ember does not heal as much as yours. Is there something you may be able to do in order to prevent you pets from taking so much damage in the first place? It might alleviate your Ember demon end issues.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
i keep my summon demons with 3 end reducers 1 dmg and 2 heals and he still burns end because he spams the AoE heal constantly (every 25 sec when its up) and uses single target heal on any demon less than 75% hp from what i noticed, the ember demon does not heal based on how much the heal does but on the remaining hp the pet has
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Originally Posted by EricHough
So, if you are slotting pet damage IO's that include end reduction the ember demon heals and many of the demon prince attacks (shiver, his slow aura, his hold) will not be affected by the end red in those enhancements (or the accuracy) because they are not damaging attack powers. Obviously, since some folks have pointed out that they are actually slotting plain end-red enhancments this is not the cause of all the pet end problems, but it might be causing some of them.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Judging by the allowed enhancement slotting for pet's powers on NoFuture it's Frozen Aura in particular that is being problematic for the Prince. It only accepts standard non-set Endurance Reduction IOs, or Sleep Set IOs. I would guess that most people are slotting Damage sets, which reduces eveything APART from Chilling Embrace (auto but costs a small amount of Endurance/Second) and Frozen Aura (which deals damage but does NOT accept damage enhancements, so it won't gain EndRed from any slotted Damage Set IOs)
With a recharge time of 20 secs and an endurance cost of 18.5 it's using up nearly a fifth of your Prince's endurance bar every 20 seconds for a low damage PBAoE sleep.
IMO really Frozen Aura qualifies as an attack (albeit a low-damage one) and should be flagged as accepting Damage enhancements. This'd solve most of the Prince's issues as it'd be able to use EndRed from slotted Damage Set IOs for its most Endurance-Heavy attack.
However the Ember Demon is almost as bad, as there are two big sources of endurance use - AoE Attacks (Fireball = 15 End every 16 seconds, Fire Breath = 15 End every 16 seconds) and Heals (Abyssal Reconstruction = 13 End every 25 seconds, Abyssal Mending = 13 End every 30 seconds) The Heals won't gain EndRed from any slotted Damage Set IOs, and the AoE attacks won't gain EndRed from any slotted Healing Set IOs. There's no easy fix for this one, unless you fancy flagging a heal power as accepting damage enhancements...
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Interesting, I slot the Demon Prince with 4 Pacing of the Turtles, a Dmg IO, and a Acc/End Edict. I mistakenly thought that the end reduction in the slow set would affect the frozen aura. I am hoping that it does cover all the attacks with a slow component.
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Originally Posted by Maelwys
Judging by the allowed enhancement slotting for pet's powers on NoFuture it's Frozen Aura in particular that is being problematic for the Prince. It only accepts standard non-set Endurance Reduction IOs, or Sleep Set IOs. I would guess that most people are slotting Damage sets, which reduces eveything APART from Chilling Embrace (auto but costs a small amount of Endurance/Second) and Frozen Aura (which deals damage but does NOT accept damage enhancements, so it won't gain EndRed from any slotted Damage Set IOs)
With a recharge time of 20 secs and an endurance cost of 18.5 it's using up nearly a fifth of your Prince's endurance bar every 20 seconds for a low damage PBAoE sleep. IMO really Frozen Aura qualifies as an attack (albeit a low-damage one) and should be flagged as accepting Damage enhancements. This'd solve most of the Prince's issues as it'd be able to use EndRed from slotted Damage Set IOs for its most Endurance-Heavy attack. However the Ember Demon is almost as bad, as there are two big sources of endurance use - AoE Attacks (Fireball = 15 End every 16 seconds, Fire Breath = 15 End every 16 seconds) and Heals (Abyssal Reconstruction = 13 End every 25 seconds, Abyssal Mending = 13 End every 30 seconds) The Heals won't gain EndRed from any slotted Damage Set IOs, and the AoE attacks won't gain EndRed from any slotted Healing Set IOs. There's no easy fix for this one, unless you fancy flagging a heal power as accepting damage enhancements... |
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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so if this does hold up, sounds like it might be worth while to slot generic endurance IOs of the highest level you can use. that should apply its endurance reduction to all powers that accept endurance reducers whether they are damage dealing, heals, etc. |
Originally Posted by Psylenz
What I hadn't stopped to realize is if I have Pet Damage IO enhancements with endurance reduction in them that the ember demon doesn't benefit on his PbAoE ember shield or heals. Cutting the endurance for the attacks is good, but it doesn't cover the full scope of his end usage, if that theory holds up.
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of course, that gets to be a difficult choice when I really like some of the 6 slot set bonuses
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thanks, beginning to think my memory was going. I thought I also read about this with the dark servant pet, that people suggested not slotting fluffy with heals as he might wait too long to help you out
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Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
No, actually that is exactly how they work, the AI doesn't 'waste' a heal. It only heals when the power will use up every point of healing without overhealing. This occurrence has always been how the protector bot heals, which is why people don't recommend slotting it for heals. This isn't a new thing.
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It is hard to say how much we can follow CoD. Demon Summoning just barely made it onto that site before it went into maintenance only mode. CE on the Prince is still listed as a toggle and Frozen Aura is not a low damage attack, the damage value on CoD is incorrect. However, it may be flagged incorrectly anyway, so it is probably worth checking into that. |
Originally Posted by Maelwys
Judging by the allowed enhancement slotting for pet's powers on NoFuture it's Frozen Aura in particular that is being problematic for the Prince. It only accepts standard non-set Endurance Reduction IOs, or Sleep Set IOs. I would guess that most people are slotting Damage sets, which reduces eveything APART from Chilling Embrace (auto but costs a small amount of Endurance/Second) and Frozen Aura (which deals damage but does NOT accept damage enhancements, so it won't gain EndRed from any slotted Damage Set IOs)
With a recharge time of 20 secs and an endurance cost of 18.5 it's using up nearly a fifth of your Prince's endurance bar every 20 seconds for a low damage PBAoE sleep. IMO really Frozen Aura qualifies as an attack (albeit a low-damage one) and should be flagged as accepting Damage enhancements. This'd solve most of the Prince's issues as it'd be able to use EndRed from slotted Damage Set IOs for its most Endurance-Heavy attack. |
If the damage of the Frozen Aura is affected by pet sets, is that a sign that the end cost is also likely affected?
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Pretty much yes. If the damage goes up then the set is correctly being passed down to Frozen Aura.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
It is hard to say how much we can follow CoD. Demon Summoning just barely made it onto that site before it went into maintenance only mode. CE on the Prince is still listed as a toggle and Frozen Aura is not a low damage attack, the damage value on CoD is incorrect. However, it may be flagged incorrectly anyway, so it is probably worth checking into that.
If the damage of the Frozen Aura is affected by pet sets, is that a sign that the end cost is also likely affected? |
I have slotted 3 end red io's, 1 acc, 2 dmg (lvl 40's atm) in my demons and it seems to do the trick. He still heals quite well and doesn't run out of end.
I prefer dps over safety 
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as for my toon its a demon/traps lol|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I have Summon Demons slotted with 6 Blood Mandates (I really want that juicy +defense bonus for myself). At my current level of enhancers this gives me 58% end reduction. My Ember will often get to half end and occasionally drops to one quarter with a rare few times of going lower. There must be a mitigation difference between our secondaries or how we are using them. I assume my Ember does not heal as much as yours. Is there something you may be able to do in order to prevent you pets from taking so much damage in the first place? It might alleviate your Ember demon end issues.
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for him running out of end, its sort of annoying, but that toon is my 6th mm and im very used to my pets running out of end (honestly i could care less since i usually treat my pets as meat shields anyway lol)
when i finally get around to slotting them though im gonna have the demons slotted with 4 soulbound allegience and steadfast res/def unique
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Frozen Aura does not get enhanced by pet sets. The accuracy of the power remains at 85% (base + Supremacy) vs. even cons. The damage is consistent with just getting the Supremacy bonus as well.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Pretty much yes. If the damage goes up then the set is correctly being passed down to Frozen Aura.
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I bugged it in game; hopefully, it gets fixed.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Cheers for the testing!! |
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Frozen Aura does not get enhanced by pet sets. The accuracy of the power remains at 85% (base + Supremacy) vs. even cons. The damage is consistent with just getting the Supremacy bonus as well.
I bugged it in game; hopefully, it gets fixed. |
Hopefully it will... the Tanker "Ice Melee" version is a decent attack and certainly takes damage enhancements, and has done since February 2008. The Blaster "Ice Manipulation" version doesn't as it still doesn't inflict any damage. I suspect the Prince's version not getting it was an oversight, maybe the allowed enhancements list was copied from the Blaster version or the "original" Tanker version.
The more I look into it the more I think I can live with the Ember Demon enhancement business though. Best endgame slotting would seem to include two plain level 50 EndRed IOs. Or (if you've got the cash) a Ribosome (if you want to enhance the Resistance shields) and/or a Golgi (if you want to enhance the Heals) as if I remember right those HOs are flagged as "Endurance Reduction" type, so the EndRed from them should affect all the pet's powers- heals, shields and attacks.
Yes, I too, will rethink the frankenslotting of the ember demon and demon prince to include at least one generic IO end reduction for the leveling up. It's going to mess with my damage or my 9% accuracy IO bonus from the Pacing of the Turtle I use on the demon prince.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Now that I've got my Demon/ MM up high enough I wanted to add something-
Although there's still no word on any "fix" for Frozen Aura on the Demon Prince, I've played about with different slotting on all my Pets and have arrived at the following as a "best case" for my Demon/FF, taking into account how the pets' powers currently inherit values from enhancements:
Summon Demonlings:
Blood Mandate: Acc/Dam, Blood Mandate: Acc/Dam/End, Sovereign Right: Acc/Dam/End, Acc/Dam (S)HO, Edict of the Master: +Defence Unique, SoulBound Allegiance: "Chance for Build Up" Proc. [Reasoning: This works out at 102.2% Acc/ 102.2% Dam, 42.4% Endred before ED - Slotting affects all attacks, Chance for Build Up gets highest chance of going off in 3 pets with fast animating attacks and since they're -2 they can also make the best use of the extra +Tohit]
Summon Demons:
Acc/Dam (S)HO, Acc/Dam (S)HO, End/Resist (S)HO, End/Resist (S)HO, Sovereign Right: +Resistance Unique, Steadfast Protection: Res/Def (Assuming you want to push your MM towards the Defence softcap) [Reasoning: This works out at 66% Acc/ 106.6% Dam, 66% Endred, 53.06% resistance before ED due to the way Damage Buffs and Damage Resistance Buffs are "swappable" (attacks gain EndRed and Damage from Ribos since they're flagged as "EndRed" type), so Heals and Attacks and Resistance Buffs all get 66.6% EndRed, and the Resistance Shields are pushed up towards the ED Cap]
Summon Demon Prince:
Soulbound Allegiance: Damage, Acc/Dam (S)HO, Blood Mandate: Acc/Dmg/Endred, Level 50 Common EndRed IO, Level 50 Common EndRed IO, Impeded Swiftness: Damage Proc.
OR
Soulbound Allegiance: Dam/End, Acc/Dam (S)HO, Acc/Dam (S)HO, Level 50 Common EndRed IO, Level 50 Common EndRed IO, Impeded Swiftness: Damage Proc.
[Reasoning: This works out at ED Capped Damage and Endurance for the attacks, with 84.8% EndRed Enhancement going through to the "unaffected by damage enhancement" Slows. Accuracy (of everything) and EndRed (of attacks) is slightly better in the second slotting option, Damage is slightly better in the first. The second option is probably the best, since the Accuracy in the HOs will carry through to both Shiver and Frozen Aura. The Damage Proc is a given, it can activate on every attack the Prince has.]
Hell on Earth
Soulbound Allegiance: Dam/Rech, Soulbound Allegiance: Acc/Dam/Rech, Expedient Reinforcement: Acc/Dam/Rech, Expedient Reinforcement: End/Dam/Rech, Expedient Reinforcement: +Resistance Unique, Call to Arms: +Defence Unique. [Reasoning: This works out at 47.7% Acc/ 102.03% Dam / 21.2% EndRed/ 102.03% Rech before ED. Damage and Recharge are very handy in this power, The Accuracy is a little bit sub-par, but slots are at a premium here since this power is the only place where you can slot the two Recharge Intensive Pet Uniques, and I run Tactics...]
made up numbers, but if his unslotted heal is set to heal 30% of base HPs, then he will cast it when anyone hits that level. slotting a heal enhancer in there, raising the heal % to say 40%, would make him wait until someone reached that level of damage before throwing out the heal.
the draw back is that it's kind of a wasted slot in that only 1 of the tier 2 pets has the heal. I generally try to slot enhancers that will help all pets in a tier. but if you are close to maxing out endurance reduction under ED, and have a slot to spare, it might be 1 way to help control his endurance use.