Ice Melee?

I really have no opinion about whether or not Ice Melee should become a scrapper power. I, can, however, explain why ice armor is not going to become a scrapper power. To set the stage for this explanation, we have to make a couple of assumptions.

1. Each Archtype is built for the purpose as outlined here: http://www.cityofheroes.com/game_inf..._overview.html
2. We are only using Single Origin Enhancements to determine balance.

The job of a tank is described as follows:
The Job of a scrapper is described as follows:
So, the job of the Tank is to take damage for the team. The job of the scrapper is to dish damage out. Many of the early game sets were built around these simplistic concepts. For example, Dark Armor. On a scrapper, Dark Armor's collection of mez effects and ultra-strong heal enabled a dark scrapper to get into a middle of a mob, hit hard, and then get out, basically a proto-stalker. When the set got ported to tanks, the set really didn't work. The mez effects that bought scrappers time to launch attacks would break aggro trains and make mob control difficult on tanks.

Ice Armor was balanced around the idea of being an aggro holder, and as such, has the largest amount of native non-mez pbaoe taunts. While all other tank sets only get one aura with a taunt component, Ice Armor gets a Taunt on Chilling Embrace, a taunt on Icicles, and yet another taunt on the PbAOE Energy Absorbtion. Only Dark comes close with taunt effects on Death Shroud, Dark Regeneration, Cloak of Fear, and Oppressive Gloom. Although, as mentioned, Oppressive Gloom and Cloak of Fear's mez effects tend to work against Taunt.

To compensate for this massive amount of aggro holding power, Ice Armor is one of the only sets that can reach soft-cap to smashing lethal on it's own: http://zerias.blogspot.com/2008/04/c...ace-build.html



Now bring this over to the scrapper side. Knock 30% off the Ice Armors defense values. Is the problem clear now?

There's a very good reason why the Defense Only Scrapper / Brute Set, Super Reflexes, gets elude, scaling resists as HP drops, and no taunt aura. The Brute Defense Only set Energy Aura also lacks any taunt aura, although Energy Drain contains a taunt component.

***

Okay, I know what the next response is: but the developers tested Ice on brutes?!?!

Well, okay. Yes. Brutes also get a much higher HP cap, something the Hoarfrost power really helped towards. Villains also started out with the defense sets Cold Domination and ForceField, which would have helped boost defense only brutes to soft-cap levels.

It's also generally accepted by the Brute Players that I talk to that the defense only sets Energy Aura and Super Reflexes need IO help.

***

Getting back to the main point. You won't see Ice on Scrappers because of what makes Ice Work. As a set, it works against Tanks because of the defense scaling and the hp levels. The power set would need a complete overhaul to handle the addition of damage auras on a scrapper frame against SO's.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen

Brute's SR gets a taunt aura

Wrong. I have pseudo tanked countless times on my DM/DA an Spines/DA scrappers with no defense, never kept jumping in and out of mobs. A DA Tanker also does this just fine, better than fire. Mez auras don't get in the way of aggro control in Tankers, they have a taunt component. A DA Tanker is the only one that can have THREE permanent auras with a taunt component, +13.5s Taunt (mag 4) PvE only - according to CoD. Add end drain protection, very high psi resistance, the huge heal and +perception and you can tank better than a Fire/Elec Armor. Mobs wandering because of Oppressive Gloom will still be taunted, and the other auras cause no scatter. CoFear makes mobs freeze, it helps aggro control more than a damage aura.

Wrong again. CoF doesn't work against taunt because mobs stand still and OG only causes a bit of scattering while mobs are still suffering from the 13.5s mag 4 taunt. The taunt effect lasts almost double the mez effect, and mez only work on minions.

Ice can soft cap to s/l/e/ne with just SOs (assuming weave and CJ and EA from 5 mobs). But besides /SR scrappers which can almost cap everything with SOs too (43.9% with CJ/Weave/Maneuvers), what's the problem with scrapper ice armor? They'd have the same aggro holding potential as shields and invul who have one taunt aura on scraps (since an Ice armor scrapper wouldn't have a taunt component in icicles), and shields has no dull pain/hoarfrost.

Partially wrong. Brutes' SR have a Taunt aura in Evasion.


SR scraps/brutes can easily reach 40% def to all with SOs without making unusual power picks (meaning the 'basics' CJ and Weave) - and if you add maneuvers you're at 43.9% def to all. A 40% defense scrapper is damn fine to play. Shields don't come close to that with SOs and they have a taunt aura just like Ice, plus Chilling Embrace would help a scrapper more than shield's AAO in suvivability because of the -rech component, both have -dam (and the -dam buff is double on CI compared to AAO even on tankers, -7% vs -14%). Also, shield have low defenses compared to other defensive armors on all ATs, Ice would have better def values on a scrapper than shields.

And except SR, all defensive armors on Brutes/Tankers/Stalkers need IO help to softcap (well even SR with CJ+Weave+Maneuvers need an extra 1.1%), it's not like Ice Armor would be gimped because it would need some IOs to sofcap a scrapper.

So while I understand the devs may want to keep Ice Armor to Tankers like they may want to keep Ninjitsu exclusive to Stalkers, I fail to see why it wouldn't work.

Ooooo that'd be awesome. Unlimited end, capped defs with a few IOs, double damage auras, taunt aura, I bet it would be a great farmer too. I'd love a fire/ice scrapper because my Ice Armor/Fire tanker is the only one I find the damage acceptable.. Now on a scrapper, wow...

According to what you quoted yourself, you're WRONG.

Irresistible force...dish out all sorts of damage...

Resilient, best AT at withstanding damage after Tanker.



Next time, make sure what you quote actually support your narrow-minded view of the game. =P




To the OP: I'd love to see ice melee and armor for both scrappers and brutes.

Taunt components get shaved off from damage/debuff auras when a set is ported to Scrappers (see Fiery Aura, Electric Armor, Dark Armor, with multiple AoE effects none of which have taunt components).

Way to not know what you're talking about

Just ignore je_saist's post. Except on the tech forums, everything he posts about gameplay and powersets is crap. Th'td be okay if he posted it as if it were an opinion, but since he posts in a tone of 'this is the absolute truth'.... Well you saw the responses he got.

I wouldn't play Ice Melee on a scrapper because I think it's still subpar as a set (as I posted, GIS should have Clobber numbers at least and Frozen Aura should have Footstomp radius, then it'd be a set I'd love to try), but it would be a welcome proliferation by a lot of people.

Don't forget the double slows. Hell yeah, that's some nice soft mitigation right thar.

Wouldn't want it on a brute tho. Suck for fury.

But a lot of things suck for fury already. Make a Mace/DA Brute, you'll stun EVERYTHING and have low fury lol.

Seriously, when I had to tank in the sky raider SF on my Stone Melee/Elec (I really had to do it, the squishies were getting hammered bad), I was spamming Fault (stun+knockdown) because /Elec on SOs (and before energize existed) isn't exactly OMGTanker material. I had like 10% fury during the whole SF but it went smoothly after I assumed the role.

Am I weird for being a bit turned on by this pic? lol never happened with any videogame character ever.

Now I want the magic booster and ultra mode just to make a toon with thighs like these lol.

Not at all, she look pretty horny too.

Owch. Now that one hurt.

With that lady, it looks like it would hurt...

It would but I"d hit her lol

You'd better have strong regeneration.