Its really up to your playstyle.
My 1st go around with blasters I thought I should avoid melee like the plague but I was mistaken.
Depends on your playstyle and combo.
Some prefer ranged only builds while others combine the two into what we call
Blappers. (mish mash of scrapper/blaster)
I'm a hardcore blapper, playing 'ranged only' as concept from time to time.
As a Blaster your focus and survival is dependant on dealing damage. Lots of damage as fast as possible.
The melee attacks in your secondary are very powerful in this regard. Even more so if your /Energy or /Electric.
Don't be afraid of the melee powers, they will be your friend in time of need!
What combos are you looking at? We can better guide you if we know.
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Yes, yes, and a million times yes! Blasters do a ton of damage both at melee and at range.
You'll actually do more damage at melee, even at the risk of damage that comes with getting in close.
That said, don't try to stay in melee for long without some form of mitigation!
Fire/Ice would be a great combo if you wanna avoid melee.
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If you take one of the secondaries that has 2-3 melee attacks, it would behoove you to get into melee and use them. Especially with sets like /fire, /nrg and /elec, you're missing out on a lot of the utility of the set by not taking advantage of their high damage melee attacks.
If you don't want to be in melee, you'd be better off to choose one of the sets that doesn't feature strong melee attacks (/dev, /ice, /mental.)
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I'm wondering about that myself. I am a RPer so I will have to find a story behind whatever combo I can come up with, or the other way around. Let me learn more about the powers...|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
What combos are you looking at? We can better guide you if we know. |
So Ice keeps the distance, which means picking it would be less melee oriented? I suppose Energy melee would be like that too? All the knock backs...
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Energy Manipulation is pretty melee-oriented. Only Power Thrust has knockback (and it has 100% knockback with a beefy distance on it, too). The set has three very powerful melee attacks with increasing chance to stun, one weak melee attack with a guaranteed stun, and four utility powers (Build Up, Boost Range, Power Boost, and Conserve Power).|
Originally Posted by Cyberium_neo
I'm wondering about that myself. I am a RPer so I will have to find a story behind whatever combo I can come up with, or the other way around. Let me learn more about the powers...
So Ice keeps the distance, which means picking it would be less melee oriented? I suppose Energy melee would be like that too? All the knock backs... |
You can play a ranged-focus blaster with Energy Manipulation using Power Thrust to keep distance and the utility powers to enhance your ranged attacks, but the melee attacks are so strong that it seems like a waste. I feel that EM is best-suited to a mixed-range play style, where you wade in with the melee powers when you want brutal damage output and hang back with the utility powers when you're a little more worried about your safety.
Do note that Energy Manipulation can be excellent for a ranged blaster if only for the amazing Boost Range, though it doesn't come until 35. It does let you get Build Up nice and early though.
My energy^2 is a zero-to-30-foot blaster. Zipping around. Following what I kbed and killing it.
My fire/ice, which I highly reccomend just for power and fun in general, is a distanced blaster. I used to keep ice sword around for close encounters, but I got Sands of Mu and threw the sword on the shelf. My standard approach, teamed, is Shiver, Build Up, Aim, Rain of Fire, Fireball and usually they're dead. If not alternate ST with FBall and Fbreath [with I don't like conceptually, but it's just too good a power to pass up on a non-concept character.]
Yeah, you can do melee, but don't be begging, "rez pls" or "I need a yellow or a blue." That kinda bugs me. Get Etherial Shift or load up on purples or run or something. I hate it when blasters die constantly. I don't. Why should they?
I certainly recommend a healthy mix of ranged and melee attacks for blasters. For blapping this obviously gets skewed to melee, and for rangers gets skewed more to ranged. Since most of my blasters are /dev I don't really have the choice.
For my namesake Energy/Energy blaster Starflier, she goes for the Pew-Pew-Pew-EatSomeTeeth style of play. Mostly ranged with a little melee for effect. Hands down my most survivable and fun to play blaster.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
To me there are basically three types of Blasters:
Sniper - This is the long ranged Blaster that doesn't take any melee attacks. /Devices fits into this rather obviously, but it has a lot of traps and stealth options that other Secondaries wouldn't have. If you choose to pick a non-Devices Secondary and not use the melee, don't pick Energy, and go for strong control powers. (Like /Ice)
Balanced - This is the Blaster that takes melee attacks from the Secondary, but uses them to support the Primary. Essentially your strategy should be to pick out foes, take them out, and then when you're down to one or two, or see an opportunity to close in on a weakened foe that's about to die, without getting in range of anyone else, dart in and use a melee attack. An excellent combination is a hold, like Tesla Cage, followed by a pair of melee attacks.
Blapper - The "Blapper", at least the way I use it, is a Blaster that concentrates mainly on melee. /Energy is the canonical example of this. You use your ranged attacks for opening salvos or to "open up" on the foe, but your main attack strategy is to charge into melee as soon as possible and take down that foe, even if it's a Boss or AV. You may dart out of range when your foe looks like it's recovering, but the main idea here is to stack stuns or other controls in order to make it safe for you to be in melee. This is primarily a single target strategy, you're not really about taking on whole groups of foes, except with a team to draw aggro off of you.
Really, with any Blaster, the concept is to take out a foe as fast as you possibly can. You can't stand toe to toe with anyone for very long, so any ability to push out more damage, even if it puts you at greater risk, is a good thing. Add to this that in general, melee attacks do more damage than ranged attacks. (And for Blasters, more of that damage comes up front, per individual attack) So closing to melee multiplies your ability to deal damage considerably. This is quite useful, and can be a drawback to the Sniper type, which has to be more cautious and keep his foes off their feet while he builds up the damage.
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/Ice has a number of melee-ranged abilities, but most of these abilities are some form of damage mitigation. It has two 'standard' melee-ranged attacks that are decent, but not a reason to pick the set (unless you just really, really like Ice Sword because of its looks |
Originally Posted by Cyberium_neo
So Ice keeps the distance, which means picking it would be less melee oriented?
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). You pick /Ice due to Ice Patch, Shiver and, most importantly, Chilblain. Ice Patch is great for corner pulls or to drop underneath you to keep enemies on their butts when you get overwhelmed. It's also great to drop next to a Tank for a bit more mitigation for them. Shiver has a huge -attack speed which greatly increases survivability (Shiver has an enormous cone). Chilblain is, by far, one of the greatest powers available to a Blaster, in terms of damage mitigation. Ranged Immobilize, -attack speed, decent damage, fairly cheap, fast recharge, easily spammable and thus easily stackable, and usable while Mezed. Put this on auto when you are fighting an EB or AV.
If you find yourself getting into melee range, then Chilling Embrace can grant even more mitigation. If you choose a Primary with a Hold, then Freezing Touch will stack with it, helping to lock down a Boss in a timely manner. The only real 'controversial' power is Frozen Aura, which I happen to like (though many do not).
In general, melee is not a 'bad' place to be, as long as you have the appropriate tools at your disposal. As you play the game you'll find a number of enemies that are just easier to deal with while strictly at range, or vice versa. Depending on your power set combination you'll come up with your own strategies for various enemies.
Just remember, Blasters are the greatest AT in the game. So have fun and enjoy!
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Question, how much more damage does melee do compare to range? And, if I am in melee range, is it feasible to use range attack too?
I could see the benefit of using range against mobs with strong melee damage. In what situation would melee be better? Controlling your foes?
Generally speaking for Blasters the Melee attacks do more damage because of the greater risk involved in using them.
I'm no numbers guy but in terms of feel. Only my Power Burst blast feels stronger than Bonesmasher.
With it's reduced range to begin with I'm using it in melee all the time anyways.
I think I should point out most of my perspective is coming from a long time soloer.
The real goal for any blaster is knowing when to use what tool.
Be it a blast or a buff or whatever. It's knowing when to attack and when to hold off.
It's knowing when to run.
Don't be afraid to run.
Run circles around the baddies. If you have a nasty on you and can't shake him run past the Tank, his aura will pull the baddie off you.
As far as using your blasts in melee. Go for it!
Just not Snipe. :P
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Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
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Why not?
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Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
Just not Snipe. :P
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Well, at least not until your comfortable with the encounters in game.
Personally I use Snipe pretty liberally. Even more so if I'm on a team.
That said, unless it's a really hard target, the set up time for Snipe (unless Aim and BU are involved) usually means it would've been quicker to just chain attack...
YMMV
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Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
Melee attacks can be very useful for a Blaster, especially if you use powers like Siren's Song to put enemies to sleep before you hammer them. Ranged attacks are safer to use, however. I usually end up with one or two melee attacks by the end of the game that get a lot of use when solo. On teams, it's usually best to leave melee to the Scrappers and Tankers. It can be like going through a wood chipper for squishies.
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I believe he meant that while using ordinary ranged attacks from melee range isn't a problem, you generally shouldn't be using your Sniper attack in melee because it A: is interruptible and B: does lower DPS than normal attacks (to compensate for the high burst damage) so would rarely be advised when you're already in the middle of a battle. Exceptions to that general rule would be when you're hit with very heavy -recharge debuffs and any attack is better than no attack at all until something comes back up, or against things like Paragon Protectors, where you want to drop them from ~30% to dead in one shot so they don't hit Moment of Glory (if they haven't been held). When you are fighting in general safety thanks to overwhelming buffs/controls/tanker distraction, using standard (non-snipe) attacks will be more effective. Melee attacks have equal or greater DPS than equivalent ranged attacks, often with handy side effects (mezzes) and a different damage type than your primary set for versatility against foes with unequal resistances. For example, take an Archery/Energy blaster and put him against a horde of Council bots. They're going to take half damage from his arrows, but 50% more damage from smashing attacks - a swift Bone Smasher to the face will take them out much quicker than the other alternatives.|
Originally Posted by Cyberium_neo
Why not?
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In short, while not every situation is suited to punching things in the face, taking some melee from your secondary helps to round out your abilities. Blasters' main draw (for me at least) is the ability to pull out the appropriate type of attack for any situation, and things like Bone Smasher help out bigtime.
Rule number six of an empathy defender is NEVER underestimate a blaster's ability to die. I don't care if he has CM, Fort, both RAs, bubbles (both FF and Sonic), and is fighting next to a Storm defender with hurricane on. If there is a way to die in that situation, the blaster will find it.
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Amusing apocryphal story: Often I use Snipe in melee range because I have already used all my ranged attacks at range, and they have yet to recharge. I will hit my target with a hold, which buys me enough time to get off the Snipe, and fire it. |
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
As far as using your blasts in melee. Go for it!
Just not Snipe. :P |
Being as I tend to use attacks as they come, though, that is not always the case, and I would not recommend it as the best use of DPS, or even the best use of the duration of the hold. I'm not even sure I can say that I'm remembering correctly that it's as useful as that. (And that's what "apocryphal" means. The More You Know.
) Honestly, I tend to use Snipes more often on Defenders, were I can be assured of getting good Def or -ToHit, which will keep it from being interrupted. I just thought I'd point out some of the ways that you can keep a Snipe from being interrupted if you want to use it.
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In general, a Blaster does not necessarily do more damage with his melee attacks. Rather, it is more a case of having those extra attacks available, with high burst damage, which can be gotten off between the weaker blasts. As there are usually only two or three melee attacks available, you'll want to "fill in" with the blasts even in melee. |
Originally Posted by Cyberium_neo
Question, how much more damage does melee do compare to range? And, if I am in melee range, is it feasible to use range attack too?
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For ATs with nothing but melee attacks, like Scrappers, you might see that they have some advantages over ranged. The basic attacks, like the first two you get, are generally the same. They do, on average, 1.0 and 1.64 respectively. You generally have an AoE, which corresponds to a PBAoE for the meleer, a cone, which may or may not correspond to a short cone attack, and some sort of control power or debuff.
It's the most powerful two attacks that are the difference, though. A Blaster's most powerful attacks are the Burst, which has a restricted range, and a Sniper, which has a very long cast time. By contrast, a meleer usually has a high damage attack, which does way more damage than a Burst attack, and takes no more extra time than a regular attack. Blasters often get this attack (such as Total Focus, or Thunder Strike) plus they get other melee attacks which are more like the heavier attacks for the meleer. That is, a Blaster's Energy Punch is more like a Brute/Tanker's Bonesmasher, and a Blaster's Bonesmasher is somewhere between Bonesmasher and Total Focus for the Brute/Tanker.
Finally, if you have an attack which does a whole lot of damage, like Total Focus, it also takes a long time to recharge. So its damage over time, when you calculate that in terms of recharge, is pretty much equal to every other attack. Power Bolt does way less damage than Power Burst, but it can be fired much more often. If you have an attack that puts out a whole lot of burst damage in a small animation time, though, you can go to the next attack right away and put out even more damage. So usually the amount of damage you can put out in the CAST TIME is considered more important than the RECHARGE TIME.
Again, Blaster melee attacks do more damage than the meleer equivalents in the same amount of time. And they put out more damage than the ranged attacks in the same amount of time. So even though you can't use them that often, when you do have them available you want to use them. That's why they're designed that way, not so you can use them constantly, but so you can use them quick and get back out of range.
I know that's a wall of text, but hopefully it was all helpful.
Pssst.
Electric has better melee than Energy.
Just thought I'd point that out since no one else mentioned it.
Energy can enter melee, Electric THRIVES in it. If you have Electric as a secondary and never enter melee range....you picked the wrong secondary.
The ONLY powers in Electric Manipulation that aren't melee based are Electric Fence, and Build Up.
Charged Brawl, Lightning Field, Havoc Punch, Thunder Strike, Lightning Clap, Power Sink, Shocking Grasp are ALL melee range abilities. If you were counting, that's 7 out of 9 powers that require you to be in melee range to use. So, if you want a blapper....Electric is a better choice.
Hmmm.....Rad/Elec/Cold? Could be pretty crazy if I give it the same treatment as my Fire/Fire/Cold (which can be found in another thread, I'm not going to derail this one talking about it)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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If you like Melee go with Scarpper, if you want to try both go with Blaster, but warning about Blasters is that they are Squishes as hell and Mosty Do Range Damage.
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Originally Posted by Cyberium_neo
I want to try out Blaster but realize one of their power set has a lot of melee in it. Should I get both range and melee?
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While I won't dispute the fact that Blasters are glass cannons. I do take issue witht the squishy term.
Nowadays I die twice as much on my melee toons than I do on any Blaster.
I'm pretty sure it's just experience, making me more aware.
That and scrapperlock /Fury-ragelock make me forget I have a health bar to watch...
Don't have that problem on Blasters. ;P
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Blapping can work quite well with Blasters, especially if you build well for it. My AR/EM Blaster knocks them about, then leaps in to finish them off with some hard punches. He can also keep the bosses stunned to drop them more quickly and safely.|
Originally Posted by GreenFIame
If you like Melee go with Scarpper, if you want to try both go with Blaster, but warning about Blasters is that they are Squishes as hell and Mosty Do Range Damage.
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My Elec/Elec is even better with his Smash/Lethal defenses. Some mobs can be trouble that bypass those defenses, but he is able to absolutely mow through mobs, and that done mostly in melee. He also soloed Nosferatu and all of the Praetorian EBs.
His approach IS different than my Scrappers and Tankers, mind, but the point is that a Blaster build can succeed in melee. Also, my Elec/Elec finds his damage output cut back a fair amount if he only stays at range... same for that AR/EM Blaster, if he's just going after a single hard target.
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My DP/MM//Cold basically lives in melee, S/L capped, Drain Psyche, Snowstorm, PSW, and HoB basically dictate that, but he's far from sqishie, infact, he may be more sturdy then my Elm/Sd//Blaze, but thats mostly because he lacks a taunt aura to pull extra agro.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Blapping can work quite well with Blasters, especially if you build well for it. My AR/EM Blaster knocks them about, then leaps in to finish them off with some hard punches. He can also keep the bosses stunned to drop them more quickly and safely.
My Elec/Elec is even better with his Smash/Lethal defenses. Some mobs can be trouble that bypass those defenses, but he is able to absolutely mow through mobs, and that done mostly in melee. He also soloed Nosferatu and all of the Praetorian EBs. His approach IS different than my Scrappers and Tankers, mind, but the point is that a Blaster build can succeed in melee. Also, my Elec/Elec finds his damage output cut back a fair amount if he only stays at range... same for that AR/EM Blaster, if he's just going after a single hard target. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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I want to try out Blaster but realize one of their power set has a lot of melee in it. Should I get both range and melee?