swap ammo just changes the secondary effect and does not increase damage. now fire ammo will add dots increasing damage but you actually lose damage if you use cold or toxic ammo (I believe umbral had a chart during CB showing DPS of DP with the different ammo types and fire/leathal came out middle of the pack while cold/toxic were at the bottom)
but not the DoT effect doesn't increase its chance depending on attack. if you look at each power's info (right click > info > detailed info) it'll show you the secondary effect of the power depending on which ammo you have on.
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Actually that info is no longer there. I do vaguely remember it being there during the DP beta but the specific effects of the ammo powers are no longer being displayed. I don't know if that's just for me. If so, it's a weird bug.|
Originally Posted by PC_guy
swap ammo just changes the secondary effect and does not increase damage. now fire ammo will add dots increasing damage but you actually lose damage if you use cold or toxic ammo (I believe umbral had a chart during CB showing DPS of DP with the different ammo types and fire/leathal came out middle of the pack while cold/toxic were at the bottom)
but not the DoT effect doesn't increase its chance depending on attack. if you look at each power's info (right click > info > detailed info) it'll show you the secondary effect of the power depending on which ammo you have on. |
So only the effect info for the standard rounds is shown.
Ok...I am pretty sure that the DoT effect is not triggering from the Pistols attack and only from the Dual Wield attack.
I ran an entire mission, and for most encounters I opened up with the Pistols attack and never got a DoT from it. Only from the Dual Wield attack. I even plinked away at a destructible object with only the Pistols attack and never once got a DoT from it. Did the same thing with the Dual Wield and pretty much got it almost every other shot. So it seems there may well be a bug with Incendiary ammo.
If anyone else can confirm this or deny it, please let me know. But I think the DoT should trigger from any pistol attack...not just from the Dual Wield attack. So far those are the only attacks I have aside from Swap Ammo.
Pistols has no secondary effects with any ammo type. It cannot deal KB, slow, deal -damage, or apply a DoT. All the other powers will have a DoT using Incendiary ammo but with Pistols all you do is change 30% of the damage from Lethal to Fire.
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Thanks for the info...although I do think that's odd.
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
Pistols has no secondary effects with any ammo type. It cannot deal KB, slow, deal -damage, or apply a DoT. All the other powers will have a DoT using Incendiary ammo but with Pistols all you do is change 30% of the damage from Lethal to Fire.
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As has been said before, there's no incendiary DoT for Pistols. But the other part of your question -- does Swap Ammo increase overall damage -- is one I've thought a lot about. I have a Dark/DP defender that I solo a lot. Having soloed with scrappers before, my defender was sloooooooow in leveling, primarily because he dealt so little damage. I took Swap Ammo to try to increase that damage.|
Originally Posted by Slashman
My question is, do the swap ammo powers actually increase overall damage or do they simply change the secondary damage to something else?
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I was underwhelmed.
But, as my character developed, I began to appreciate Swap Ammo more for a few reasons. First, it allows you to be much more effective versus lethal-resistant foes. Being able to switch damage types does allow you to deal more damage to those types of foes. If you're really on top of things and you know which foes are vulnerable to toxic or fire or cold, you can further maximize your damage.
Second, toxic rounds give you much better odds against foes like Freak tanks who can easily hit you for half your hit points. Switch to toxic ammo and all your DP attacks (except Pistols) carry a 12.5% damage debuff with an 8 second duration. So you can usually keep that double-stacked, meaning you essentially have 25% resistance against everything (for one foe) and that 300 hit point Freak tank smackdown becomes a 225 pointer. Still smarts, but...
Third, that unimpressive DoT starts to get more significant once you can relly slot up the damage on your attacks, and once you're playing over x3 or higher. Ball those bad guys up, then cut loose with Bullet Rain followed by Empty Clips, Piercing Rounds, and (if you're the nuke type) Hail of Bullets, and your heart will overflow with joy as you see an explosion of little yellow numbers burst overhead. Because the DoT has stacked, and it's being applied to a dozen guys at once, you are witnessing a virtual conflagration of villainy.
So, in the end I give Swap Ammo a thumbs up, but I think it's best taken late in one's career... certainly after Bullet Rain, and probably not until into the 20's or 30's when one has had time to slot up the damage.
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I have to disagree on Taking Swap Ammo late in your career. I just find it to useful myself.|
Originally Posted by Quantumizer
As has been said before, there's no incendiary DoT for Pistols. But the other part of your question -- does Swap Ammo increase overall damage -- is one I've thought a lot about. I have a Dark/DP defender that I solo a lot. Having soloed with scrappers before, my defender was sloooooooow in leveling, primarily because he dealt so little damage. I took Swap Ammo to try to increase that damage.
I was underwhelmed. But, as my character developed, I began to appreciate Swap Ammo more for a few reasons. First, it allows you to be much more effective versus lethal-resistant foes. Being able to switch damage types does allow you to deal more damage to those types of foes. If you're really on top of things and you know which foes are vulnerable to toxic or fire or cold, you can further maximize your damage. Second, toxic rounds give you much better odds against foes like Freak tanks who can easily hit you for half your hit points. Switch to toxic ammo and all your DP attacks (except Pistols) carry a 12.5% damage debuff with an 8 second duration. So you can usually keep that double-stacked, meaning you essentially have 25% resistance against everything (for one foe) and that 300 hit point Freak tank smackdown becomes a 225 pointer. Still smarts, but... Third, that unimpressive DoT starts to get more significant once you can relly slot up the damage on your attacks, and once you're playing over x3 or higher. Ball those bad guys up, then cut loose with Bullet Rain followed by Empty Clips, Piercing Rounds, and (if you're the nuke type) Hail of Bullets, and your heart will overflow with joy as you see an explosion of little yellow numbers burst overhead. Because the DoT has stacked, and it's being applied to a dozen guys at once, you are witnessing a virtual conflagration of villainy. So, in the end I give Swap Ammo a thumbs up, but I think it's best taken late in one's career... certainly after Bullet Rain, and probably not until into the 20's or 30's when one has had time to slot up the damage. |
To the OP...
Swapping Ammo, takes 30% of the Lethal Damage, and changes it with another Damage type (Fire, Cold, or Toxic).
You lose the -Resist effect of Lethal Ammo Piercing Rounds when you swap to the elemental damage types of the attack, which is why Toxic and Cold do the least amount of damage.
One of the great things about Swap Ammo, is if you know your enemies weakness, then you can swap to that ammo type to deliver the most damage.
Personally, I hope they buff Dual Pistols to add a 4th damage type "Energy" but I doubt it will ever happen. Though I think Dual Pistols getting the Energy Damage treatment would of gone along way in the "Laser Pistol" area of things.
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I believe that the chance for incendiary ammo to proc a DoT is the same as the power's chance to knockback without swapping ammo. So, 0% for pistols, 50% for dual wield, 70% for executioner's, etc.
The utility of swap ammo isn't as obvious in the early levels because enemies aren't as resistant and when they are, the difference between incendiary and normal is small. When you get into the 30s though, and you start seeing enemies more and more resistant to lethal (freaks, for example), you'll really appreciate that you're getting ~30% more secondary damage (plus the DoT, which on executioner's shot is considerable) by switching to incendiary. Toxic is useful from time to time, cryo is mostly worthless unless you're fighting masses of CoT demons.
It would be nice if swap ammo converted more of your damage or had some cooler secondary effects, but it's not a bad power as is. I think I took it at 28.
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I have my DP blaster to lvl 38 now, and I only use Fire and Lethal ammo. When on teams and soloing respectively. I noticed the extra ticks from the fire ammo, but not all the time. I just use it because people usually hate KB and I don't want to be "that guy" with all the knockback attacks that everyone hates.
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Just a nitpick, Pistols actually does have a -7.00% Defense Debuff with regular ammo. It does not have any secondary effects with any other ammo.
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
Pistols has no secondary effects with any ammo type. It cannot deal KB, slow, deal -damage, or apply a DoT. All the other powers will have a DoT using Incendiary ammo but with Pistols all you do is change 30% of the damage from Lethal to Fire.
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I took kind of a break from the game for a bit and so never rolled a live DP toon until yesterday.
I got the Swap Ammo power today and tried out the incendiary ammo first.
I was a bit underwhelmed since I fought and killed 8 Outcasts without seeing one secondary DoT tick. Finally killed 3 more and saw it happen twice.
My question is, do the swap ammo powers actually increase overall damage or do they simply change the secondary damage to something else?
Also...does the DoT effect of incendiary ammo increase its chance for triggering depending on which attack you use? I thought the effect of each ammo power would be listed in the detailed description in the enhancement screen.
Thanks for any replies in advance.