An out of the box idea for the Inf cap.
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-04-29 19:01 in The Market and Inventions
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How does it devalue Inf?
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I don't think the situation is bad enough yet to necessitate devaluing inf. Besides as Rodion said, unless something is done to fix the basic problems it is, at best, a bandaid.
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Your option #2 is a textbook case of currency devaluation.
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Originally Posted by Smurphy
How does it devalue Inf?
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What is my option #1 and what is my option #2?
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Originally Posted by PumBumbler
Your option #2 is a textbook case of currency devaluation.
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I'd like to name the two options:
Option Smurf is "round everything up to the nearest 10, store inf*10 internally as a 32-bit number"
Option Fulm is "have a counter for how many 2-billions you have."
They aren't GREAT names, but they're better than the meteor fragments.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
I understand there's slightly more Inf coming into the system because I round up the 1s column. That's it though. What other devaluation is there?
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Since i've came back last weekend i have a scrapper to 32 and a DS MM to 22. On the Scrapper it's made 4mil more than it started with, and that's with having a boost from friends at the start. The MM is at 900k in the bank after 22 SO, with having no boost.|
Originally Posted by Smurphy
The caps don't actually do anything besides add minor annoyances. Price caps don't keep items cheap. Price caps don't keep prices down, don't help with availability, and don't allow more people to have more items. Inf caps don't keep people from assembling vast wealth.
If you've just returned to the game and are astonished at these prices then go out into the world, find some items, (wait for the markets to come back online) and then sell your stuff for huge piles of monies. |
Now look at the ridiculous prices for IO's under those levels, only people with 50's can afford them. If that's not over inflated i don't know what is, no amount of farming at low levels is going to get you the IO's until you're higher.
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I wholeheartedly agree with you. However, nothing you mentioned would be altered in any significant way, shape, or form by having, not having, or changing Inf Caps or price caps.|
Originally Posted by Scotsmania
Since i've came back last weekend i have a scrapper to 32 and a DS MM to 22. On the Scrapper it's made 4mil more than it started with, and that's with having a boost from friends at the start. The MM is at 900k in the bank after 22 SO, with having no boost.
Now look at the ridiculous prices for IO's under those levels, only people with 50's can afford them. If that's not over inflated i don't know what is, no amount of farming at low levels is going to get you the IO's until you're higher. |
Also, you can afford them if you find similar ones, sell them, and buy what you want.
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Normally when I say "If only there was some way you could buy something and sell it for more." I'm being ironic...
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Originally Posted by Scotsmania
Since i've came back last weekend i have a scrapper to 32 and a DS MM to 22. On the Scrapper it's made 4mil more than it started with, and that's with having a boost from friends at the start. The MM is at 900k in the bank after 22 SO, with having no boost.
Now look at the ridiculous prices for IO's under those levels, only people with 50's can afford them. If that's not over inflated i don't know what is, no amount of farming at low levels is going to get you the IO's until you're higher. |
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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If the Inf cap goes up it increases the prices for the top end items, which in turn may have a detrimental effect on the lower priced ones. The more one has available to spend the more he is willing.|
Originally Posted by Smurphy
I wholeheartedly agree with you. However, nothing you mentioned would be altered in any significant way, shape, or form by having, not having, or changing Inf Caps or price caps.
Also, you can afford them if you find similar ones, sell them, and buy what you want. |
The biggest factor hat you and others fail to add in is that the majority of people playing are ones who are the die hards and have been playing for a long time, therefore have vast amounts of inf at their disposal. In a community where 700 people is considered an above average online population you cannot expect many of those to be newer players. How often do you meet someone who has less that 1 or 2 years up to 5 or so vet badges? Not often i'd wager.
The higher people are allowed to hold and bid the worse the economy will become and in turn the less players you'll get joining and sticking with the game. It's already on the very low side.
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The current inf caps don't stop people from having Inf. The Inf caps do NOT change how much Inf one is able to spend. |
Originally Posted by Scotsmania
If the Inf cap goes up it increases the prices for the top end items, which in turn may have a detrimental effect on the lower priced ones. The more one has available to spend the more he is willing.
The biggest factor hat you and others fail to add in is that the majority of people playing are ones who are the die hards and have been playing for a long time, therefore have vast amounts of inf at their disposal. In a community where 700 people is considered an above average online population you cannot expect many of those to be newer players. How often do you meet someone who has less that 1 or 2 years up to 5 or so vet badges? Not often i'd wager. The higher people are allowed to hold and bid the worse the economy will become and in turn the less players you'll get joining and sticking with the game. It's already on the very low side. |
So this statement "The more one has available to spend the more he is willing" is true. But "Inf caps change how much one has available to spend" is NOT true. There are too many ways around it and nothing prevents people from spending that money when they get it, allowing them to have an item and obtain more money.
Lolz, is City of... Zimbabwe now? Ludicrous idea.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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What is ludicrous about it and what does Zimbabwe have to do with it?
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Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
Lolz, is City of... Zimbabwe now? Ludicrous idea.
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Read some current events and see for yourself.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
So you analogize...
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Where the numbers are virtually identical and almost nothing changes about the currency, except now people can hold 20 billion and some very tiny amounts of Inf are slightly more |
Examples: Single Origin costs 10,525 Influence before, now 10,530. Influence Reward for a defeat of 3, now 10. Influence bid of 5,000,100 before, now 5,000,100. You are holding 10,205,295 Infamy before, now 10,205,300 |
to...
Zimbabwe Abandons its currency
or maybe Zimbabwe removes 12 zeros from currency
I put the #s right back where I found them. I'm not crossing off the smallest digit. I'm just rounding it up.
So, on one hand we have my idea (virtually nothing changes) to Zimbabwe (12 zeroes change)
However, I do agree that my idea is ludicrous. It just doesn't do anything like what Zimbabwe did.
The Cap is there for a reason.
I'm against any cap increase.
If you are too lazy to figure a way around it, then there is no reason to increase it.
All an influence cap increase would do would be to allow inflation on high price items. There is no reason for it other than sheer greed.
If you are that greedy, find away around it.
The rest of us are fine. 90% of the players will probably never hit the 2 bil cap on a character.
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This post demonstrates a lack of intelligence, understanding and comprehension. The tags on this thread also demonstrate a lack of intelligence, understanding and comprehension.|
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
The Cap is there for a reason.
I'm against any cap increase. If you are too lazy to figure a way around it, then there is no reason to increase it. All an influence cap increase would do would be to allow inflation on high price items. There is no reason for it other than sheer greed. If you are that greedy, find away around it. The rest of us are fine. 90% of the players will probably never hit the 2 bil cap on a character. |
The Influence/Infamy caps may technically keep prices from going above a certain point but in reality they do not. Simply because a price is prevented from going over 2 Billion does not mean one could obtain that item if one had 2 Billion. The items simply are not for sale at that price. The price is effectively higher.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219644
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219638
Increasing the Inf cap does not do anything to Inflation.
*EDIT*
Here's an analogy.
I picture a road. Now I picture a Speed Bump NOT on the road. Perhaps its 10 yards to the right. I am proposing removing said speed bump. I'm picturing you protesting with a silly sign that reads "Keep Speed Bumps: They help keep traffic slow".
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I see now. Someone referred to them as options, when what you are proposing are steps.|
Originally Posted by Smurphy
What is my option #1 and what is my option #2?
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You're proposal is to round the least significant integer and then use that for the X0 Billion digit.
Definitely a hack and probably not worth the effort to change since it only buys one order of magnitude's worth of influence, which is likely not enough head room anyhow.
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That's it! A one billion Inf token as Salvage would solve all of the problems of the Market.
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Originally Posted by PumBumbler
Alternatively (or additionally), that FCB teller could sell tokens worth 1B or 2B and those could be stored on a toon as special salvage. The point of tokenizing the 2B is so trading in >2B can happen without multiple trades (avoiding rip-offs). This would still mean the Auction Houses would be left out though. Vendoring the tokens would return the 2B inf.
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Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
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We don't know this for sure, but since the maximum value of a positive 32-bit integer is a little more than two billion, the cap is probably two billion because that's the biggest integer number most applications running under Windows are programmed to represent (and probably store in the database).|
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
The Cap is there for a reason.
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It is therefore probably a technical reason, and not one based on a conscious decision to rein in inflation or check greed.
It seems that the devs chose to store influence/infamy in a 32-bit number when the game came out, long before there was a market and before there were IOs, and before there was anything to spend lots of influence on (the only thing worth a lot was Hamidon Origin enhancements). Two billion probably seemed like a number that would never be reached, and if someone hit the cap they were so rich that it didn't really matter.
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really did you ask the devs or did you Rp an answer from the devs? I realize in crazy world there is no difference but the rest of us dont live there
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Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
The Cap is there for a reason.
I'm against any cap increase. If you are too lazy to figure a way around it, then there is no reason to increase it. All an influence cap increase would do would be to allow inflation on high price items. There is no reason for it other than sheer greed. If you are that greedy, find away around it. The rest of us are fine. 90% of the players will probably never hit the 2 bil cap on a character. |
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Wow. Its fine that you are against it. |
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
The Cap is there for a reason.
I'm against any cap increase. If you are too lazy to figure a way around it, then there is no reason to increase it. All an influence cap increase would do would be to allow inflation on high price items. There is no reason for it other than sheer greed. If you are that greedy, find away around it. The rest of us are fine. 90% of the players will probably never hit the 2 bil cap on a character. |
I'm pretty sure Smurfy has already figured a way around it.
All an influence cap increase would do would be to allow people with more than 2 billion influence spend it easier on high price items. There is no other reason for it than sheer convenience. You know, a QOL thing, one of many that the devs have introduced into the game, such as allowing people to trade more than 99999 influence at a pop.
You don't speak for me. Please don't assume you do. Thank you.
Food for thought:
If the influence cap is increased, it will help curb the off market trading. It will also help remove more influence from the game in market fees. Some will do it just from trust issues.
I hope the "end game" Posi is working on has some kind of influence-destroying scheme in it.
Or that some dev somewhere is thinking about how to reduce inflation. Preferably through some kind of influence destruction scheme.
Or we will soon all be sitting at the inf cap and thinking about how to stash our surplus billions.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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I misspoke, I should have said revalue not devalue
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Originally Posted by Smurphy
How does it devalue Inf?
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I like Option 2. Let's use the term "Fulm" as units of measurement. Usage: "I have 7 Fulms in my screencap, plus the inf cap. Smurphy's giving away 10 Fulms in his contest."
Give us our Fulms!
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
I don't think the situation is bad enough yet to necessitate devaluing inf. Besides as Rodion said, unless something is done to fix the basic problems it is, at best, a bandaid.